NK Maribor Vs Tottenham: Match Thread

[Dinghy]

and didn't we just beat Manure away for the first time in Donkeys?

How much longer will this chestnut be rolled out?

My fear is that this is going to be about the only highlight in a long season... (and it wasn't much of a highlight as we robbed them of those points)

 

[sweyid]

The day after usually fills me with new perspectives and less negativity.

Maribor seems to be a pretty good home team, eventhough they're not a fantastic footballing side (aside from their fans, who quite frankly were fantastic last night. Had we played like they're fan sung, it would have been an easy victory). Ljudski Stadium seems to be somewhat of a fortress. They are a team that we should beat quite comfortably with a full, motivated team, but going away to eastern Europe is never easy, not for club teams, not for national teams.

Adebayor, Assou-Ekotto, Dembele, Kaboul and Bale were missing. Take away the (arguably) 5 best outfield players from United, Chelsea, City and Arsenal and you end up with not so good,in some cases even bad, teams.

Some things must be adressed though, and the one who sticks out like a sore thumb is, and I don't like to critizise Spurs players overall, even less so the young ones, but Walker looks a shadow of himself. He needs to get back to his last season form, or at least be dropped for Naughton when BAE comes back to get some fire in his belly again. I don't really think his complacement, but something needs to happen.

Could there be any truth to the recent rumblings about Adebayor? I can't shake the idea of his injury last night being an "injury". We need him to play against Southampton, or I'll start to worry about the harmony of the manager-player relationship.

Dempsey and Siggy are in desperate need of some confidence and a good run of games. They've hade quite some time to adapt to their new team mates and I've defended Sigurdsson in many places, many a time, but patience is wearing thin. Sure, he was there for a goal last night and did quite well from time to time, tracked back and put the pressure on Maribor, but he was very, very sloppy in his passing last night. I keep grasping at the Adebayor straw to make Siggy and Dempsey good players, with his ability to create space and hold up the ball, but so far they haven't been able to shine with Defoe in front of them.

Last but not least, our central midfield. We severely lack creativity and someone to link the defense with the offense without Dembele and without a creative CM coming in when the January window opens we will be very thin. Same thing goes for striker options. And we need a Kagawa/Cazorla/Isco type CAM who can be a genuine threat with the ability to penetrate central defenses.

 

[max cady]

whilst the performance was not the best we did not lose, the media would have had a field day with us and especially AVB if we had. We move on to Southampton and there is a chance to get back on track. While the season so far has not been spectacular we have only lost twice.

 

[chiversandgilzean]

It was a disappointing performance, too slow and ponderous. However, these games are much more difficult than they first appear, given the average quality of the opposition. A difficult pitch, a pumped up opposition and a less intense (a little complacent?) Spurs, a home crowd in fine voice, and a "there's always three more games to come in the group" attitude. While such a lack of intensity and such an attitude are wrong, pretty much all teams succumb to it on such nights.

Having said all that we should have done much better.

 

[Spursidol]

The day after usually fills me with new perspectives and less negativity.

Maribor seems to be a pretty good home team, eventhough they're not a fantastic footballing side (aside from their fans, who quite frankly were fantastic last night. Had we played like they're fan sung, it would have been an easy victory). Ljudski Stadium seems to be somewhat of a fortress. They are a team that we should beat quite comfortably with a full, motivated team, but going away to eastern Europe is never easy, not for club teams, not for national teams.

Adebayor, Assou-Ekotto, Dembele, Kaboul and Bale were missing. Take away the (arguably) 5 best outfield players from United, Chelsea, City and Arsenal and you end up with not so good,in some cases even bad, teams.

Some things must be adressed though, and the one who sticks out like a sore thumb is, and I don't like to critizise Spurs players overall, even less so the young ones, but Walker looks a shadow of himself. He needs to get back to his last season form, or at least be dropped for Naughton when BAE comes back to get some fire in his belly again. I don't really think his complacement, but something needs to happen.

Could there be any truth to the recent rumblings about Adebayor? I can't shake the idea of his injury last night being an "injury". We need him to play against Southampton, or I'll start to worry about the harmony of the manager-player relationship.

Dempsey and Siggy are in desperate need of some confidence and a good run of games. They've hade quite some time to adapt to their new team mates and I've defended Sigurdsson in many places, many a time, but patience is wearing thin. Sure, he was there for a goal last night and did quite well from time to time, tracked back and put the pressure on Maribor, but he was very, very sloppy in his passing last night. I keep grasping at the Adebayor straw to make Siggy and Dempsey good players, with his ability to create space and hold up the ball, but so far they haven't been able to shine with Defoe in front of them.

Last but not least, our central midfield. We severely lack creativity and someone to link the defense with the offense without Dembele and without a creative CM coming in when the January window opens we will be very thin. Same thing goes for striker options. And we need a Kagawa/Cazorla/Isco type CAM who can be a genuine threat with the ability to penetrate central defenses.

Good analysis.

Difficult to argue with AVB's squad either given the injury liist - only minor refinement is that we might have taken Carroll (Mason out injured) in place of one of the defensively minded players, but whether he would have made a difference (as a sub for Huddlestone ? ) is a moot point.

Lloris;​

Walker, Caulker, Vertonghen, Naughton;​

Huddlestone, Sandro (Livermore, 84);​

Lennon, Sigurdsson (Dempsey, 75), Townsend (Falque, 46);​

Defoe.​

​

Unused subs: Cudicini, Gallas, Smith, Parrett

Injured : Dawson, Kaboul, Assou-Ekotto, Dembele, Bale, Adebayor

 

[spud]

While our performances against both Panathanaikos and Maribor were disappointing, we are clearly the best team in this group, and had our perfectly legitimate goals against Lazio stood then we would be leading it. I expect us to take four points from our two remaining home games and win in Rome, and we will progress to the knockout stage.

I like the way that AVB is making around three changes from the previous league game for Europa matches. It means that we should retain cohesion from game to game (although yesterday didn't reflect this) and the way that the squad is being rotated should prevent us from melting down again in the second half of the season. Fringe players are getting experience as part of a 'proper' first team instaed of simply all playing together in a different competition while the bulk of the first team squad watch them from the bench or on TV. Something which, again, will be of benefit later in the season and beyond.

 

[AngerManagement]

How much longer will this chestnut be rolled out?

My fear is that this is going to be about the only highlight in a long season... (and it wasn't much of a highlight as we robbed them of those points)

This is true actually

While its no doubt a great achievement to win at Old Trafford for the first time in forever, we certainly defended for our lives and got more than our fair share of luck.

Man U have consistently let in early goals this season and not been the irresistibly force at Old Trafford that they usually are, plus these types of results happen from time to time (I remember blackburn beating them at Old Trafford and didn't WBA do so not so long ago to?)

The point is this result can't be used as empirical evidence that all is right with the squad any more than the disappointing results against Norwich and WBA can be used to write us and AVB off.

We're somewhere in between, in transition and restructuring our whole squad and formation. We've weakened ourselves due to the players we have sold (especially in the creative sense) and although we have made some decent signings we're not as good as we were last year (certainly not at the moment) and very much need to add some real quality to the side/squad in the coming transfer windows

Vertonghen, Dembele and Lloris are 3 very good signings (long term too) and if you include Adebayor, even though he was here last year we have done some great business down the spine of our team and this provides a strong base to build on.

With a strong keeper, 2-3 excellent centre backs, strength in depth in the centre of the park and some quality players like Bale, Ade and Lennon in the forward positions complimented by hard workers like Dempsey we are not as far away as some suggest from being a very good team (but we are also not as good as those who keep dragging up the Man U result like to think just yet either)

We need Ade to play to his best form, we need probably another striker and an attacking midfielder as well as someone to cover or upgrade our wing play but if Levy is prepared to back the manager and or our scouting network can unearth some creative gems this team can really go places.

We're at a cross road though, very much so and I think it could see us either make ourselves a mainstay in the top four or returning to the depths of upper midtable chasing Europa places depending on what we do in the next couple of transfer windows.

 

[Sweetsman]

Unless thinking has changed, the main point about European away games is not to lose. Falque may just be what we have been missing in midfield, which to my mind was what we were missing against Chelsea. Sandro was on his own and Huddlestone was too slow.

 

[brasil_spur]

Sorry if this has been done already but i was snowed under with work yesterday.

Does anyone know what the fuck the billboards at the games with 'Powerhorse for Adebayor' were all about???

 

[DuDe]

Does anyone know what the fuck the billboards at the games with 'Powerhorse for Adebayor' were all about???

This question has come up a few times

Sound needed. Brace yourself for 'uber ghey' at the end:

 

[Spurger King]

Unless thinking has changed, the main point about European away games is not to loose. Falque may just be what we have been missing in midfield, which to my mind was what we were missing against Chelsea. Sandro was on his own and Huddlestone was too slow.

You're right about the away issue. It was a reasonable result that will look a lot better if/when we win our home games.

As for Falque - I'd hold back on the optimism for the moment. He looked ok in the brief appearances he made last season, and it's encouraging that he seems to be performing decently enough when he's played recently, but he's not going to be some sudden answer to our midfield problems.

 

[Sweetsman]

I edited my original post as I wrote "loose" instead of "lose" and I hate that this has been creeping in.
Falque is 23 and if not now then when should he be given a run?

 

[AngerManagement]

Unless thinking has changed, the main point about European away games is not to lose. Falque may just be what we have been missing in midfield, which to my mind was what we were missing against Chelsea. Sandro was on his own and Huddlestone was too slow.

I'm not so sure that's really the case when given the quality of opposition we have faced thus far

We should have won both games

You're thinking most likely comes from the old days of knock out 2 legged ties where by a draw away to beat 'em at home was often the plan (and there was far less difference between money and talent of the english teams to their european opponents)

Right now the main point is to win the group to avoid a tougher game in the next round, with Lazio having somehow got a draw against us at the Lane we should have walked over both of the teams we have played away because frankly they were both shit and draws have been poor results anyway you look at it

The only saving grace is that we have not lost and Lazio were also held to a draw

 

[Sweetsman]

I'm not so sure that's really the case when given the quality of opposition we have faced thus far

We should have won both games

You're thinking most likely comes from the old days of knock out 2 legged ties where by a draw away to beat 'em at home was often the plan (and there was far less difference between money and talent of the english teams to their european opponents)

Right now the main point is to win the group to avoid a tougher game in the next round, with Lazio having somehow got a draw against us at the Lane we should have walked over both of the teams we have played away because frankly they were both shit and draws have been poor results anyway you look at it

The only saving grace is that we have not lost and Lazio were also held to a draw

I'm not so sure about that. Wenger recently stated that you had to not lose the away games and make sure that you win at home, although that exploded in his face last week. I get the impression that AVB is trying to manage energy levels: the aim is to win without expending much energy and thereby not be knackered at the weekend. I'm not going to knock him as he has actually won the tournament.
In the EPL, the best team by far have been Chelsea and I take heart from the fact that we came back from a deficit despite missing two crucial players, particularly Dembele. Added to this, their goals were gifted by poor defensive play (see Windy's blog).

 

[JimmyG2]

When you're talking about high quality opposition then home and away tactics and stategy apply.
But against inferior opposition in a league context then you get in amongst them as soon as possible and get the job done.
You have to play as if they are a threat to your very existance in each game.
Regarding yourself as superior which we revealed in the way we played on Thursday:
turn up, stroll around, win the game, exchange shirts, sign some autographs and go home won't do
at any level or in any context home or away.
The longer these games go on the more confident the opposition becomes however overawed they are at the start
and the more likelihood of an upset.
We will probably qualify but this wasn't exactly the Group Of death.

And please note I am not underestimating the opposition.
To play with a sense of urgency and to take them seriously is to pay them the proper respect

 

[AngerManagement]

I'm not so sure about that. Wenger recently stated that you had to not lose the away games and make sure that you win at home, although that exploded in his face last week. I get the impression that AVB is trying to manage energy levels: the aim is to win without expending much energy and thereby not be knackered at the weekend. I'm not going to knock him as he has actually won the tournament.
In the EPL, the best team by far have been Chelsea and I take heart from the fact that we came back from a deficit despite missing two crucial players, particularly Dembele. Added to this, their goals were gifted by poor defensive play (see Windy's blog).

I am sure Wenger did not mean that to apply when playing shit box teams in the Europa cup having dropped 2 points against your main rival for top spot at home already though

*Also who gives a fuck what Wenger thinks?*

 

[Sweetsman]

When you're talking about high quality opposition then home and away tactics and stategy apply.
But against inferior opposition in a league context then you get in amongst them as soon as possible and get the job done.
You have to play as if they are a threat to your very existance in each game.
Regarding yourself as superior which we revealed in the way we played on Thursday:
turn up, stroll around, win the game, exchange shirts, sign some autographs and go home won't do
at any level or in any context home or away.
The longer these games go on the more confident the opposition becomes however overawed they are at the start
and the more likelihood of an upset.
We will probably qualify but this wasn't exactly the Group Of death.

And please note I am not underestimating the opposition.
To play with a sense of urgency and to take them seriously is to pay them the proper respect

William Gallas pointed out this particular malaise in the Spurs mental make-up last year. It's probably why we haven't done better over the years.