Opinion of AVB in hindsight?

[Ribble]

Which Stoke game are you referring to?

Pretty sure he means the one reffed by Foy where he turned down a bunch of penalty claims and then his linesman called Ade offside when he was on by at least 2-3 metres.

Has Foy actually been back in the PL since he and his team made the "offside" fuckup with Jan this season?

 

[Metalhead]

I'm now waiting for the following threads:

Opinion of Juande Ramos in hindsight
Opinion of Martin Jol in hindsight
Opinion of Jacques Santini in hindsight
Opinion of David Pleat in hindsight
Opinion of Glen Hoddle in hindsight

 

[Xeeleeyid]

No doubt that AVB was a bit of a pre-Madonna and could be difficult to work with. But the fact remains failing a diabolical linesman's flag at Stoke we would have got CL in his first season, finishing 2 points clear of arse. We'd probably have a different outlook on him if that had happened. We need video refs I think!

Every team drops points due to bad luck, dodgy calls, reflections or woodwork. We finished where we deserved, as do most teams.

 

[Xeeleeyid]

Also, my point is that AVB's first season and our league finish isn't why he was sacked and isn't what he should be judged on whether as a failure or as a success. It was a good achievement to finish so close to fourth with losing Modric and King. But AVB's ability to cope and make the best of things when he didn't get his own way, or to cope with negative feedback or people questioning his decisions when results in his 2nd season weren't as good, is what lost him the players, press, fans and ultimately, his job.

 

[eViL]

AVBs system requires individual brilliance in the final third from established impact players.

When we sold Bale, the end was nigh.

 

[Spurger King]

Pretty sure he means the one reffed by Foy where he turned down a bunch of penalty claims and then his linesman called Ade offside when he was on by at least 2-3 metres.

Has Foy actually been back in the PL since he and his team made the "offside" fuckup with Jan this season?

Wasn't that when Redknapp was in charge?

 

[Ribble]

Wasn't that when Redknapp was in charge?

Actually it was, when you're right you're right! That's the only one I can remember though, and a quick dredge doesn't bring up any other contentious games against them unless there was something in This One I don't recall (and isn't mentioned).

 

[Spurger King]

Actually it was, when you're right you're right! That's the only one I can remember though, and a quick dredge doesn't bring up any other contentious games against them unless there was something in This One I don't recall (and isn't mentioned).

Either way I disagree with @willy white wonka when he implies that one decision was the difference between qualifying or missing out on CL. Unless it was on the last day of the season, in the last minute, and involving either Spurs or Arsenal, there are simply far too many variables to consider.

 

[willy white wonka]

Either way I disagree with @willy white wonka when he implies that one decision was the difference between qualifying or missing out on CL. Unless it was on the last day of the season, in the last minute, and involving either Spurs or Arsenal, there are simply far too many variables to consider.

The fact still remains that one of the most disgraceful linesman's decisions I've ever seen; there was a Stoke player in red stripes well behind Ade and between him and the goal, when he scored and it was ruled offside! That cost us 3 points which in turn cost us CL football at the end of the season. Didn't matter when it happened because the points are tallied up at the end of the season and we were 1 short. As long as it happened in that season then it mattered. Had it not occurred most of AVB's critics wouldn't be slagging him off right now.

 

[willy white wonka]

Every team drops points due to bad luck, dodgy calls, reflections or woodwork. We finished where we deserved, as do most teams.

It wasn't a dodgy call, the goal was blatantly onside! There was a Stoke player wearing red stripes a couple of yards between Ade and the goal when he scored and it was a bright sunny day! It was the most blatant linesman's balls up I've ever seen and probably cost AVB his job. Still, water under the bridge now, but it just shows how human error can cost a club it's manager and millions of £'s worth of income. We need video ref's like yesterday.

 

[Spurger King]

The fact still remains that one of the most disgraceful linesman's decisions I've ever seen; there was a Stoke player in red stripes well behind Ade and between him and the goal, when he scored and it was ruled offside! That cost us 3 points which in turn cost us CL football at the end of the season. Didn't matter when it happened because the points are tallied up at the end of the season and we were 1 short. As long as it happened in that season then it mattered. Had it not occurred most of AVB's critics wouldn't be slagging him off right now.

Well as discussed above, it sounds like you're talking about the Stoke game when Harry Redknapp was the manager, so I don't think it would have helped AVB very much.

Either way, you're wrong to say that it doesn't matter when it happened. That's not how reality works. If we had won that match it might have provoked Arsenal to approach their games with even more focus, giving them extra motivation to perform better.

Equally, a Spurs win might have led to complacency on our part in another game, and we would have dropped points against a team that we actually beat.

You can't just pluck one incident from a season, change it, and expect all other events to transpire in exactly the same way. It's like when people say "if that had gone in, we would have won." Well...no. If a goal goes in it changes the entire course of the game. The opposition might battle back with more determination, or their heads might drop and the scoring team might knock a few more in.

You're focussing on one specific event and acting like it wouldn't have unpredictable knock on effects to the way Spurs and other teams approached their following matches.

 

[NEVILLEB]

AVB had nothing to do with that then?

Only if you're mug enough to buy his self aggrandising bullshit.

Bale improved year on year under both Managers so the credit should go to him.

AVB is a fraud who talks a great game while delivering turgid, lifeless football.

 

[kaz Hirai]

Only if you're mug enough to buy his self aggrandising bullshit.

Bale improved year on year under both Managers so the credit should go to him.

AVB is a fraud who talks a great game while delivering turgid, lifeless football.

Fair enough

 

[willy white wonka]

Well as discussed above, it sounds like you're talking about the Stoke game when Harry Redknapp was the manager, so I don't think it would have helped AVB very much.

Either way, you're wrong to say that it doesn't matter when it happened. That's not how reality works. If we had won that match it might have provoked Arsenal to approach their games with even more focus, giving them extra motivation to perform better.

Equally, a Spurs win might have led to complacency on our part in another game, and we would have dropped points against a team that we actually beat.

You can't just pluck one incident from a season, change it, and expect all other events to transpire in exactly the same way. It's like when people say "if that had gone in, we would have won." Well...no. If a goal goes in it changes the entire course of the game. The opposition might battle back with more determination, or their heads might drop and the scoring team might knock a few more in.

You're focussing on one specific event and acting like it wouldn't have unpredictable knock on effects to the way Spurs and other teams approached their following matches.

My mistake, sounds like my memories playing tricks on me! Still think we need video refs because these bizarre cock-ups can ruin a clubs season, and being Spurs we always get the wrong dice roll don't we?

 

[Xeeleeyid]

My mistake, sounds like my memories playing tricks on me! Still think we need video refs because these bizarre cock-ups can ruin a clubs season, and being Spurs we always get the wrong dice roll don't we?

To be fair, I don't think we always do. For every game I remember where we were ridiculously unlucky, there's one where I can remember us being ridiculously lucky.

If we're talking about AVB in particularly, there was a series of games beginning of his second season we won 1-0 thanks to pretty dodgy hand-ball penalty calls. He may have gone even before he did if not due to the points in the bag obtained in that early run. The win at home to Hull particularly sticks in the mind as in terms of outfield play, from my memory they dicked all over us, but we got a dodgy call and won the game.

 

[willy white wonka]

To be fair, I don't think we always do. For every game I remember where we were ridiculously unlucky, there's one where I can remember us being ridiculously lucky.

If we're talking about AVB in particularly, there was a series of games beginning of his second season we won 1-0 thanks to pretty dodgy hand-ball penalty calls. He may have gone even before he did if not due to the points in the bag obtained in that early run. The win at home to Hull particularly sticks in the mind as in terms of outfield play, from my memory they dicked all over us, but we got a dodgy call and won the game.

Well the biggest hard luck story was finishing 4th and missing out on CL because Chelsea somehow won it by parking the bus and somehow survived being slaughtered by Barca and Bayern to win both games! Don't come much worse than that! I think we're an unlucky club and I've been supporting Spurs for 50 odd years, nobody will convince me otherwise.

 

[kaz Hirai]

To be fair, I don't think we always do. For every game I remember where we were ridiculously unlucky, there's one where I can remember us being ridiculously lucky.

If we're talking about AVB in particularly, there was a series of games beginning of his second season we won 1-0 thanks to pretty dodgy hand-ball penalty calls. He may have gone even before he did if not due to the points in the bag obtained in that early run. The win at home to Hull particularly sticks in the mind as in terms of outfield play, from my memory they dicked all over us, but we got a dodgy call and won the game.

Pen might have been fortunate but no team 'dicked' all over us during that period. It wasn't until the injury crisis at the back occurred did the bottom fall out against pool and city..by far the 2 best teams in the league.

In fact checking the stats we had 66% possession

More shots off and on target and more possession In their area.

The attacking side of the football was just too slow, the build up too slow, made it hard to create any kind of space and open teams up.

I understood the system perfectly as it was basically Barcelona's method of moving the ball left to right and back again to pull teams out of their key zones.
But there wasn't that sudden nitrous burst of one or 2 touch passing followed by a killer ball to release soldado that barca do so well .

Possibly Combo of bad coaching on avbs part in not having the skill to get his method into players.
The wrong players in the first place, and a lack of time to work on a system.

In my opinion of course

 

[kungfugrip]

Wasn't that when Redknapp was in charge?

Yep that was almost four years ago people. It was when Spurs fans gave cyclist Chris Hoy a whole lot of abuse on twitter by accident. But we still finished 4th that year so move on.

 

[yido_number1]

The football wasn't great but the points tally was significantly better than any we've seen before. I hope Poch can improve significantly on what we've seen so far as the football hasn't been any better since AVB. Its amazing that a managers likeability can impact how people think of him more than the results did.

 

[NEVILLEB]

Well the biggest hard luck story was finishing 4th and missing out on CL because Chelsea somehow won it by parking the bus and somehow survived being slaughtered by Barca and Bayern to win both games! Don't come much worse than that! I think we're an unlucky club and I've been supporting Spurs for 50 odd years, nobody will convince me otherwise.

There's also a mentality that runs through the club that things will go wrong. That we're not quite fit to be amongst the biggest clubs.

It's a self fulfilling prophesy. When we didn't invest after qualifying for the Champions League most fans backed the decision. Without solidifying our position we stood still while others strengthened. By freaking out that we would be the next Leeds we chickened out of raising the club to a new level.

There's still too much fear in the club.

I don't think the new stadium is going to massively close the gap on the top clubs. There are still huge deficits in external revenues.