Our Squad 2015/16

[hughy]

i was wondering to myself last night, along the lines of the squad quality, whether Poch would think the squad he has now is better than the one he left behind at Soton? Sure, hes made more money himself, and maybe one could argue that our players are harder to poach than those from Soton given wages, prestige of a London club etc, but from a footballing point of view i find it hard to argue that our squad has the potential to break into the Top echelons of the PL any time soon?

Of course not. But over the next few years our squad of largely inexperienced young English players will be something to build on. Players like Kane, Alli, Dier, Son and Eriksen who are all 23 and under, and all have the potential to be World Class players who will flourish and naturally strengthen us in a number of departments.

We wont be winning the league any time soon, but I'm hoping if our new stadium coincides with all of the above players hitting their peak, it could potentially see us be an incredibly strong outfit.

 

[beats1]

i was wondering to myself last night, along the lines of the squad quality, whether Poch would think the squad he has now is better than the one he left behind at Soton? Sure, hes made more money himself, and maybe one could argue that our players are harder to poach than those from Soton given wages, prestige of a London club etc, but from a footballing point of view i find it hard to argue that our squad has the potential to break into the Top echelons of the PL any time soon?

He always had a better squad than the one he left behind. Sure we didn't have a Schneiderlin or rodriguez but we also had players they didn't hence why we have always finished at least 2 places better than them

As for schniederlin, yes we haven't got in a player who fits that bill but as for the rest including Rodriguez we have someone similar or better(Son)

 

[Misfit]

Outside of the big 4, who does look likely? When we hit gold a few years back we had 75% of a belter of a season and Lolpool a couple of seasons ago rode Sewer rat almost to the title but otherwise, nobody else gets a look in.

Top 6 is fine. 5th is even better. Anything below 8th and dodgy performances, no sign of improvement and next summer I would imagine the various forums will be dominated by one conversation. I think we'll be fine, finishing top 6 or 7. If we have a nice cup run then all the better. The main thing needed is signs of improvement over the season. For individual players and the team as a whole.

Let's hopefully see that so that in 2 or 3 years time, we'll be looking true contenders for the higher echelons of the league and will be ready to move into a cash cow stadium to boot.

 

[beats1]

Of course not. But over the next few years our squad of largely inexperienced young English players will be something to build on. Players like Kane, Alli, Dier, Son and Eriksen who are all 23 and under, and all have the potential to be World Class players who will flourish and naturally strengthen us in a number of departments.

We wont be winning the league any time soon, but I'm hoping if our new stadium coincides with all of the above players hitting their peak, it could potentially see us be an incredibly strong outfit.

See I really don't get this oh we have to build because we have a young squad

You compare our squad to liverpool and both teams have young squads.

Also Eriksen and Son while being young are more experienced than players 3 years older than them. Son has played in the CL already and has 45 caps, whilst eriksen helped knock Man City in the CL and has 53 caps.

Players develop at different rates. I seen that some people are using the excuse that the likes of Onomah, Veljkovic and Winks shouldn't be involved as they are young and we are inexperienced but we are stalling the development of players who can become huge for us especially in the case of Onomah.

Also worth noting that Liverpool have had an average age in the squad for around 23 and younger for a while and yet they have never been allowed to develop their squad because their best players are always leaving. I don't see how we will be any different despite people telling us we need to develop this team

 

[hughy]

See I really don't get this oh we have to build because we have a young squad

You compare our squad to liverpool and both teams have young squads.

Also Eriksen and Son while being young are more experienced than players 3 years older than them. Son has played in the CL already and has 45 caps, whilst eriksen helped knock Man City in the CL and has 53 caps.

Players develop at different rates. I seen that some people are using the excuse that the likes of Onomah, Veljkovic and Winks shouldn't be involved as they are young and we are inexperienced but we are stalling the development of players who can become huge for us especially in the case of Onomah.

Also worth noting that Liverpool have had an average age in the squad for around 23 and younger for a while and yet they have never been allowed to develop their squad because their best players are always leaving. I don't see how we will be any different despite people telling us we need to develop this team

I dont really see a point at all to what you've just said.


Are you saying because Eriksen and Son have played plenty of CL games that means they can't still improve further?

 

[npearl4spurs]

Looking at the squad ATM and thinking about the January window, I would try to loan Onomah and sell Carroll and Dembele if Harry Winks can develop more and consistently play as he did when he came in for Dier yesterday and Qarabag. Lots of time to see how the rest the year plays out and even into the spring to make those decisions for sure. I do like both Carroll and Dembele but I have no idea where to play either of them with confidence, and therefore, I think we should cash in on both when we can.

Bring in a striker and glance long and hard at the market for a CM in January. If, as expected, prices are too high, bank the money and give Harry Winks a run to get the best assessment of the CM we need to get next summer.

 

[beats1]

I dont really see a point at all to what you've just said.


Are you saying because Eriksen and Son have played plenty of CL games that means they can't still improve further?

Im not saying that here is my separate points:
Saying we have young squad is a bullshit argument because other teams around us have squads just as young they will improve as well

Saying we lack experience is a poor excuse for some of our players when we have some very experienced young players, yes they are still young but players like eriksen, Alderweireld, Son, Lloris and etc have a lot of experience and CL experience

Just because we have a young squad doesn't mean all of them will become world class some will peak early. Meanwhile one of our best players in our academy in terms of potential for us isnt getting on the pitch for the first team and neither for U21's which will lead to stagnating and missing out on his potential.

Also look at liverpool their average in 2013 was 23 years old, their average now is around the same. Why? because they are always selling their older players due to them wanting to go somewhere better or the club wanting to develop a new younger player

 

[hughy]

Im not saying that here is my separate points:
Saying we have young squad is a bullshit argument because other teams around us have squads just as young they will improve as well

Saying we lack experience is a poor excuse for some of our players when we have some very experienced young players, yes they are still young but players like eriksen, Alderweireld, Son, Lloris and etc have a lot of experience and CL experience

Just because we have a young squad doesn't mean all of them will become world class some will peak early. Meanwhile one of our best players in our academy in terms of potential for us isnt getting on the pitch for the first team and neither for U21's which will lead to stagnating and missing out on his potential.

Also look at liverpool their average in 2013 was 23 years old, their average now is around the same. Why? because they are always selling their older players due to them wanting to go somewhere better or the club wanting to develop a new younger player

Are Liverpool also a London based club moving in to a new 60k seater stadium? Do they have a manger who is slowly implementing his philosophy on the team one area at a time? I don't know why you're so keen to compare them to us. We're on the way up in the last 10 years, they're on the way down.

 

[beats1]

Are Liverpool also a London based club moving in to a new 60k seater stadium?

They aren't a london based club but they are actually having new stands put in and increasing the capacity by around 15k to 59k seats

Do they have a manger who is slowly implementing his philosophy on the team one area at a time?

Not really but he is implementing his philosophy on pretty much a new team but thats due to their turnover of players

I don't know why you're so keen to compare them to us. We're on the way up in the last 10 years, they're on the way down.

I comparing them with us because thats the level we are on

I don't think they are on their way down but I don't think we are neither I think both clubs are at their level hoping that one of the top 4 slips rather than forcing one out of the top 4 out

Though the media sadly disagrees with your assessment

 

[npearl4spurs]

I'd like to revisit this with the halfway point approaching.

Townsend looks to have played his last game for us. It is sad to see an academy player surplus to requirements, but not every "one of our own" will make it, especially with how talented we are and how deep the squad seems to be (outside of striker)

Carroll is out of contract after this season? Do we try to extend it to get an appropriate fee for him? Do we try to move him on in January? Do we try to convince him to stay and be a squad player?

Fazio has to be on the way out. Cameron Carter Vickers occupied his usual spot on the bench tonight. Maybe that indicates that Fazio can be moved on for sure.

So two in Townsend and Fazio that we know can go. Any else?

The squad still feels too big, especially in midfield.

 

[spurs9]

I'd like to revisit this with the halfway point approaching.

Townsend looks to have played his last game for us. It is sad to see an academy player surplus to requirements, but not every "one of our own" will make it, especially with how talented we are and how deep the squad seems to be (outside of striker)

Carroll is out of contract after this season? Do we try to extend it to get an appropriate fee for him? Do we try to move him on in January? Do we try to convince him to stay and be a squad player?

Fazio has to be on the way out. Cameron Carter Vickers occupied his usual spot on the bench tonight. Maybe that indicates that Fazio can be moved on for sure.

So two in Townsend and Fazio that we know can go. Any else?

The squad still feels too big, especially in midfield.

Out - Townsend & Fazio. Winks out on loan.
In - Center Forward that can hold the ball up well.

We would still be over crowded at CM & in the AM3, but there are none that I want to lose there ATM, but if we absolutely had to lose 1 player from each, it would be Carroll & Chadli for me.

 

[spurs9]

Just realised that Dembele & Chadli are our only 2 players, outside of defence & GK, that are over 24!!!

 

[DEFchenkOE]

Out - Townsend & Fazio. Winks out on loan.
In - Center Forward that can hold the ball up well.

We would still be over crowded at CM & in the AM3, but there are none that I want to lose there ATM, but if we absolutely had to lose 1 player from each, it would be Carroll & Chadli for me.

Wasn't Chadli our 2nd highest scorer last season? Would seem a bit premature to sell him imo.

Actually I'm amazed the guy can't play upfront tbh, he has the size to play it and looks strong enough maybe just needs to apply himself a bit more.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

It's all taking decent shape:

Lloris Vorm
Walker Trippier
Alderweireld Fazio Carter-Vickers
Vertonghen Wimmer
Rose Davies
Dier Bentaleb
Alli Mason Carroll
Lamela Son Townsend
Eriksen Dembele Pritchard
Chadli Onomah
Kane Njie

There's quite comfortably room to trim the fat (Fazio and Townsend) without leaving us thin in those positions and have a squad place remaining to bring in a target man should someone suitable become available.

Last night both Carroll and Onomah more than put themselves in contention so there really isn't a point in persisting with Townsend anymore or trying to find another CM as we have quality in depth in both those positions.

 

[Spursidol]

I'd like to revisit this with the halfway point approaching.

Townsend looks to have played his last game for us. It is sad to see an academy player surplus to requirements, but not every "one of our own" will make it, especially with how talented we are and how deep the squad seems to be (outside of striker)

Carroll is out of contract after this season? Do we try to extend it to get an appropriate fee for him? Do we try to move him on in January? Do we try to convince him to stay and be a squad player?

Fazio has to be on the way out. Cameron Carter Vickers occupied his usual spot on the bench tonight. Maybe that indicates that Fazio can be moved on for sure.

So two in Townsend and Fazio that we know can go. Any else?

The squad still feels too big, especially in midfield.

Strange how much of a difference 12 months make - a year ago Poch had just shown he was going to sideline a lot of expensive under performing internationals and put his faith in the much younger less experienced Kane, Mason, Bentaleb et al - and we seemed to have a very thin squad.

Come the summer and after getting rid of all the sidelined players we brought in a few and I thought we had a full squad albeit short of a striker and probably an experienced DM.

I can't see any need whatsoever for an extra DM, as we have so many CM's and I'm not sure we really know enough about all of them now, and how they looked paired up with others in a CM2. Add in some youngsters coming through and I think Poch's task next summer will be to decide who stays and who goes - I don't think we'll see any movement in January as Poch still needs to see more of some of them. Ideally I'd still like to bring in Veljkovic (even though its crowded there) as I think he covers DM and CB very nicely, but I fear its not going to happen..

Looking forward 12 months I'm pretty sure that Onomah will eclipse Dembele, so I could see Dembele leaving in January if we had a high enough bid, but doubt if we want to actively sell him now, we'll wait until summer.

The obvious two players to move on in January are Fazio and Townsend - it can still be argued that both could contribute something but provided we can find suitable exits its fairer on both players to let them move on, and both could look better at other clubs.

We are light at CB but with several very good youngsters (CCV and Ball - on loan at Rangers plus others who are younger), I'd hate to see us buy one. Think another striker is an obvious one - but after last night I'm more relaxed that Poch is prepared to work without a striker replacement and we have the players to make an alternative game plan work.

So I'm not expecting much activity this TW - Fazio and Townsend out and a striker in - with one or two other youngsters being blooded in the 2nd half of the season maybe with a small clear out in the summer before an interesting pre-season where we see if Oduwa (AM), Ball (CB, RB,, DM) and maybe Ogilvie back from loan show that they can make the squad along with maybe CCV, KWP and one or two other youngsters

 

[Spursidol]

It's all taking decent shape:

Lloris Vorm
Walker Trippier
Alderweireld Fazio Carter-Vickers
Vertonghen Wimmer
Rose Davies
Dier Bentaleb
Alli Mason Carroll
Lamela Son Townsend
Eriksen Dembele Pritchard
Chadli Onomah
Kane Njie

There's quite comfortably room to trim the fat (Fazio and Townsend) without leaving us thin in those positions and have a squad place remaining to bring in a target man should someone suitable become available.

Last night both Carroll and Onomah more than put themselves in contention so there really isn't a point in persisting with Townsend anymore or trying to find another CM as we have quality in depth in both those positions.

The other thing to note is that out of the 26 players you list 9 have come out of our academy. Doubt too many other PL clubs can get close to that

Hell of a change from a couple of years ago when the mantra was 'we've only produced King from our youth in the last decade so why are we expecting to get any more through'

 

[Spursidol]

hought it was worth a look at who is actually playing from the squad - one surprise to me was that Davies has played marginally more than Rose at LB.

3 players (Chadli, Bentaleb and Mason) who seemed to be fixtures in the first team last season have become bit part players this season in part due to their injuries this season, and partly due to the form of others (mainly Alli, Dier and Dembele).

.…………………Mins…….Starts
Most Used X1
Lloris………….…2,160……24
Walker………….1.612…….18
Davies…………1,178……..13
Alderweireld ..2.250…….25
Vertonghen….2,070…….23
Dier…………….2,169……..25
Dembele…….1,187……..15
Alli……………...1,641……..18
Eriksen…….…1,701……..19
Lamela…….…1,561……...18
Kane…………...2,081………23

15 Other Players
Bentelab……….214 …….. 2
Son……………….766………8
Mason……………636……....7
Vorm…………….180……….2
Clinton…………..359……….2
Trippier…………..728………8
Townsend……..299………3
Fazio…………..……90………1
Chadli……………807……..10
Pritchard……………5………0
Onomah…………121……….1
Wimmer………….270………3
Carroll……………489………5
Winks……………..15……….0
Rose…………….1,162…….13
http://www.myfootballfacts.com/Tottenham_Hotspur_Minutes_2015-16.html

After 26 games, including 19 PL games, its about half way through the season, and the most used 11 players are probably self evident – other than Davies has played 16 minutes more than Rose.

• Chadli, Bentaleb and Mason (who all seemed fixtures in the team last season) could have played more had they not been for injuries as could Son.
• Clinton broke through into Lyon first team ;last season and was expected to be eased into Spurs slowly this season, but this has been more slow than expected due to injuries
• Davies and Rose have played almost equal amounts of time, but Davies 15 minutes more.
• In the other full back position playing time has been divided approximately 60/40 in Walker’s favour over Trippier
• Alderweireld and Vertonghen have almost monopolised the CB positions, leaving Wimmer with just 3 games and Fazio just one game – surely a problem if either Toby or Jan have an injury as Wimmer will not be match fit. .
• Carroll has played more in recent weeks than expected
• A total of 26 players have played for Spurs in the first half season, including Onomah and Winks whose playing time has probably been restricted by the size of the squad.

 

[ebzrascal]

Wasn't Chadli our 2nd highest scorer last season? Would seem a bit premature to sell him imo.

Actually I'm amazed the guy can't play upfront tbh, he has the size to play it and looks strong enough maybe just needs to apply himself a bit more.

Chadli will be important later in the season no way should we sell him he got 11 premier league goals last season.. Totally agree Chadli should be able to play the Striker role..

 

[Hoops]

I would like to see another striker, a midfielder and a left back.

 

[Spursidol]

Time for a brief update now that the January transfer window has closed

GK (2) - Lloris, Vorm,
FB (4) - Walker (A), Rose (C), Davies (A), Tripper (A)
CB (3) - Vertonghen, Wimmer and Alderweireld
CM (5) - Dier (u21), Mason (C), Bentaleb (u21), Carroll ( C), Alli (u21)
AM (7) - Lamela, Chadli, Eriksen, Clinton, Son, Dembele, Onomah (u21)
FWD (1) - Kane ( C)

Total – 22 players

Club trained (Rose, Mason, Carroll, Kane) = 4
Other AssociatedTrained (Walker, Davies, Trippier, ) = 3
Overseas Trained (Lloris, Vorm, Vertonghen, Dier, Wimmer, Lamela, Chadli, Eriksen, Dembele, Alderweireld, Clinton and Son =12
Under 21’s (Bentaleb, Alli, Onomah) = 3

Other Youngsters Available - Carter-Vickers (CB), Harrison (Striker). Winks (CM), Oduwa (AM)

Loaned out : Fazio, Yedlin, Pritchard, Ogilvie, Ward, Walker-Peters

A leaner squad than for some years - but Poch is on record as saying that he prefers that - but still 22 players who have all played this season.

The obvious anomaly is having one named striker, however we do have 7 (and arguably 8 with Alli) AM's who's job it is to create goals and share the goalscoring. However whilst its undoubtedly true that Kane is our main goalscorer a total of 11 players have scored goals for us (more than for many PL teams), and indeed it looks like Son, Lamela, Eriksen, Chadli and Alli (yup 5 of them plus Harry) could all end the season with about 10 goals or more each (see http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/ind...otspur-goals-assists-thread-2015-2016.121103/ for further details), so the goalscoring is not only wide spread through out the team but we have a few forwards who are credible threats to the opposition goal - something which a number of other PL teams do not. Clearly if Kane is out for any length of time we could have a goalscoring problem but providing Poch rotates (something he''s improving on and needs to continue to do so), then without a prolonged absence of Kane we should be ok. However like most, I'd have liked to have signed a specialist striker as cover for Harry.

Its much the same story in the CB/DM area, now with Vertonghen out for maybe 2 months we are short of cover - however its the one position on the pitch not required to be as mobile of involved in a high press, so providing we have no further injuries at CB we should be ok. If we need to roate we do have Carter-Vickers waiting to make his debut, however my judgement would be that he''s more likely to be involved off the bench and if successful he'll make a start or two rather than being a regular starter this season, which would lead to Dier dropping into CB again. In turn of course that means playing without a 'specialist' DM - however one can argue that we do not need one against mid table and lower table teams, and I'd guess that Poch thinks that way too.

Elsewhere we have strength in depth at CM and at full back.

Other youngsters who might play a part (if not loaned out to lower league clubs) include Harrison (striker), Oduwa (AM) both likely off the bench rather than as starters and Winks (CM) who may appear off the bench but later in the campaign is more likely to start than the others.

Finally, worth a mention that 10 of the 22 players (almost half) were trained in UK, a much higher percentage than for many years, and unusual in PL