Player Watch: Dele Alli

Joined
Oct 19, 2004
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How do you think he did yesterday?

Personally I thought yesterday he was a bit better than of late and made some very good runs. Like you say sometimes his decision making lets him down but I thought his movement was very good yesterday and defenders have a hard time in following/dealing with him. I do think we need to learn how better to use the space Dele opens up with his movement.

I don't think there's ever an issue with his runs or movement off the ball, it's his strength, that intuition and his pitch presence are what are ahead of his years. I think he was a bit better yesterday than he has been in other recent games, but for me there was still a little too much wastage, not difficult wastage, simple wastage, and I do think in our system a player in his remit needs to do a bit more, contribute a bit more with the ball to general game play and work a bit harder without the ball. He wasn't the worst out there yesterday IMO, he contributed more than Kane and Son.

There's always compromises with players, especially at our salary point, I accept this and most weeks Alli would start for me, I just think a couple of weeks off might focus and motivate him? Even one week might do it, just jog him, let him know he has to to keep learning and working.
 

kmk

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Anyone care to summarise this? I don't click on links to that vile rag.
Tottenham midfielder Dele Alli reveals Mauricio Pochettino said he did not like him when he first joined... but he loves the England star now!
Dele Alli speaks about the impact that Pochettino and his assistant Jesus Perez have had on his game and the day they told him that they didn’t like him.

When I signed for Spurs in 2015 I came to have a look around the training ground, but I think he [Pochettino] was in Spain. I didn’t see him till I came back for pre-season.

It was really hard and I didn’t know what he thought of me. The first proper one-on-one was with Jesus. They were speaking in Spanish and then Jesus said to me: ‘He didn’t like you...’ or similar. The boss was staring me in the eye to see how I reacted. I was speechless! He paused for like a second, and he said ‘...but now he loves you.’

The season before last, there was a bit in the media about me, when everyone was saying I was losing my temper.

He pulled me into his office and talked about himself as a player, and showed me some clips of him on YouTube, very aggressive.

He’s scored some goals as well, and told me I need to have a look at some so I can improve my finishing. He’s better than everyone!

In his chats, he insists we all have to want it, there are no excuses for being tired and stuff. He does push everyone all the time.

At Palace [in January 2016] I made it 2–1 in the last 10 minutes. I watched the goal back and saw that he had run all the way down the line and was involved in the hug. I had not realised.

Do I upset him? Yeah, all the time. [Alli laughs]. A few weeks ago we were doing some shape work and I was a bit annoyed, not at him but just with some stuff.

I was walking in and looking at the floor and he told me to lift my head up and smile.

Later, he pulled me into his office and talked to me about how if I’m not being happy and positive it can have an effect on everyone. I didn’t realise how much.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...Pochettino-did-not-like-me.html#ixzz4vbTAU5Bt
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
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Do you realise how ridiculous you are being? You claim I am making a "straw man" argument, mis-representing what you say, then repeat the same nonsense that proves otherwise:

It is categorically nonsensical to take away the most important part of football and literally the objective of every single thing that is done on the pitch and then say 'well his football isn't impressive.' You can be poor in any individual game and still score, but if you continue to bang them in at the rate that Dele does at his age then you can't be anything other than impressive at football. It's akin to saying 'well if you took away Steve Smith's runs and just watching him play cricket it wouldn't be impressive' or 'if you took away James Harden's points and just watched him play basketball it wouldn't be impressive,' or 'if you took the blood away from a blood pudding it wouldn't be a very impressive pudding.' It's redundant. Yes, it's nonsensical. What's left isn't the thing you clam to be judging as 'not impressive.'
It categorically isn't nonsensical, because the thing you call the "most important part of football" does not exist without everything else, therefore if everything else is not very good, then the most important part of football does not exist. The reason Alli can play shit and still get goals is because others aren't being poor when doing everything else, ergo, the ability of everyone to do the "most important part of football" can also be adversely effected when/if Alli is being poor at everything else. Therefore it's important, not nonsensical for this facet to be discussed by us - and hopefully improved but Alli


I copied your post over to the ratings thread because a couple of hours later, in that thread, you were criticising Eriksen - the guy who did the thing you think is "the most important part of football" as having a bad game, and praising Alli for his role in "everything else". Which clearly suggests that when it suits you, you agree entirely with my nonsensical concept that both facets - 1. "the most important thing in football" and 2. "Everything else" can be discussed and critiqued exclusively of one another and good and bad can be attained in each facet exclusively of one another. Rendering your whole "point finger at BC and ridicule him for suggesting what Alli does when he's not doing "the most important thing in football" but doing "everything else" can be evaluated in isolation and critiqued, because you'd just done exactly the same.

If anything, it is you who are using the straw man tactic, suggesting that I am literally "taking away goals and assists" when you know full well what am actually doing is just separating them for the purpose of analysis and that even in the original post when I used the phrase "take away goals and assists" I qualified it:

We can all see that Alli has some special attributes, and we all understand that for 21 his potential is massive. Most weeks last season we all said "he does some really poor stuff in games but he keeps delivering and that justifies his selection - and he is 21" but this season it's been a case of not producing very much and the same poor stuff, and by poor stuff I mean he does some really, really poor stuff that if say Clint Dempsey did or Josh Onomah did everyone would be "this bloke just isn't good enough or this bloke isn't ready for this level yet".

I mean if you took the goals and assists away, and just watched Alli play football, it wouldn't be impressive. Lots of good runs into the box maybe, but lots of very careless play with the ball, lots of falling over and shrugging like it's the ref's fault, and half hearted pressing. He does sometimes get a flee up his arse and work a bit harder, and he has been involved in some good things too (but that's pretty much a given at this level for any player in our side).

I even acknowledged that when "everything else" isn't great but he is still delivering "that justifies his selection".


I just don't get why you felt the need to try and ridicule this suggestion as "nonsensical"? Especially as you apply similar evaluation yourself, as we see in your ratings post. Then heap salt on it by going off on will accusatory tangents, claiming I misrepresented you.
 

Cravenspurs

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Jul 31, 2011
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2,838
I don't think there's ever an issue with his runs or movement off the ball, it's his strength, that intuition and his pitch presence are what are ahead of his years. I think he was a bit better yesterday than he has been in other recent games, but for me there was still a little too much wastage, not difficult wastage, simple wastage, and I do think in our system a player in his remit needs to do a bit more, contribute a bit more with the ball to general game play and work a bit harder without the ball. He wasn't the worst out there yesterday IMO, he contributed more than Kane and Son.

There's always compromises with players, especially at our salary point, I accept this and most weeks Alli would start for me, I just think a couple of weeks off might focus and motivate him? Even one week might do it, just jog him, let him know he has to to keep learning and working.
His wastage has dropped as the games have kicked on and last game he was the best we have seen him despite his inability get in the stat column. Kane should have finished that follow up to the winks ball. He kept it much simpler this game and his lay off to Eriksen in the first half was a brilliant cushioned ball. If Eriksen controls that, he could have easily had two assists. He didn't attempt half of the flicks and dinks he has been trying and for me this helps the team out for the most part.

His diving header at the end there is pure Dele and before we know it he will start banging in the goals again and all will be forgotten. I also think his pressing has picked up since the first couple weeks.
 

Gbspurs

Gatekeeper for debates, King of the plonkers
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His wastage has dropped as the games have kicked on and last game he was the best we have seen him despite his inability get in the stat column. Kane should have finished that follow up to the winks ball. He kept it much simpler this game and his lay off to Eriksen in the first half was a brilliant cushioned ball. If Eriksen controls that, he could have easily had two assists. He didn't attempt half of the flicks and dinks he has been trying and for me this helps the team out for the most part.

His diving header at the end there is pure Dele and before we know it he will start banging in the goals again and all will be forgotten. I also think his pressing has picked up since the first couple weeks.
Like us Dele really kicks into gear as the season kicks on. Looked decent against Bournemouth but it just wasn't happening, it will soon.
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
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His wastage has dropped as the games have kicked on and last game he was the best we have seen him despite his inability get in the stat column. Kane should have finished that follow up to the winks ball. He kept it much simpler this game and his lay off to Eriksen in the first half was a brilliant cushioned ball. If Eriksen controls that, he could have easily had two assists. He didn't attempt half of the flicks and dinks he has been trying and for me this helps the team out for the most part.

His diving header at the end there is pure Dele and before we know it he will start banging in the goals again and all will be forgotten. I also think his pressing has picked up since the first couple weeks.

He was better Saturday than he has been in some previous games, that doesn't not represent a clear consistent improvement - yet. For the record, he still gave the ball away more than everyone else, including Lloris, nearly 40% of his passes failed and that doesn't include just losing possession trying to control or move with the ball.

I don't think all will be forgotten for everyone. Goals are great, but at our level, you have to bring more, IMO, otherwise you'd be happy watching Defoe and his 15 goals and 15 passes a season.
 
Joined
Jul 28, 2004
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You have priors for spouting shit. Apologies for not picking up the sarcasm.
Not overly sure how to take this one really, somewhat backhanded apology really but I'll take it. However, I do hope most would disagree with you, I do my best to construct my arguments logically, air my opinions constructively and speak from as erudite a standpoint as possible. Beauty - beholder I guess.
 

Chris12

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Mar 6, 2013
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Not overly sure how to take this one really, somewhat backhanded apology really but I'll take it. However, I do hope most would disagree with you, I do my best to construct my arguments logically, air my opinions constructively and speak from as erudite a standpoint as possible. Beauty - beholder I guess.
Don't take it too personally or literally plz. Ironic coming from me, I am aware.
 

Mr Pink

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Not overly sure how to take this one really, somewhat backhanded apology really but I'll take it. However, I do hope most would disagree with you, I do my best to construct my arguments logically, air my opinions constructively and speak from as erudite a standpoint as possible. Beauty - beholder I guess.
It made me laugh, but only because it's so wide of the mark lol

You're a very sincere and considered poster so it's a bewildering statement for sure!
 

glospur

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1,940
It categorically isn't nonsensical, because the thing you call the "most important part of football" does not exist without everything else, therefore if everything else is not very good, then the most important part of football does not exist. The reason Alli can play shit and still get goals is because others aren't being poor when doing everything else, ergo, the ability of everyone to do the "most important part of football" can also be adversely effected when/if Alli is being poor at everything else. Therefore it's important, not nonsensical for this facet to be discussed by us - and hopefully improved but Alli


I copied your post over to the ratings thread because a couple of hours later, in that thread, you were criticising Eriksen - the guy who did the thing you think is "the most important part of football" as having a bad game, and praising Alli for his role in "everything else". Which clearly suggests that when it suits you, you agree entirely with my nonsensical concept that both facets - 1. "the most important thing in football" and 2. "Everything else" can be discussed and critiqued exclusively of one another and good and bad can be attained in each facet exclusively of one another. Rendering your whole "point finger at BC and ridicule him for suggesting what Alli does when he's not doing "the most important thing in football" but doing "everything else" can be evaluated in isolation and critiqued, because you'd just done exactly the same.

If anything, it is you who are using the straw man tactic, suggesting that I am literally "taking away goals and assists" when you know full well what am actually doing is just separating them for the purpose of analysis and that even in the original post when I used the phrase "take away goals and assists" I qualified it:




I even acknowledged that when "everything else" isn't great but he is still delivering "that justifies his selection".


I just don't get why you felt the need to try and ridicule this suggestion as "nonsensical"? Especially as you apply similar evaluation yourself, as we see in your ratings post. Then heap salt on it by going off on will accusatory tangents, claiming I misrepresented you.
And the entire point of 'everything else' is to score or prevent goals. That's it. When someone regularly does that you can't just take it away and then judge the players football as 'not impressive.' What's left isn't judging football in a holistic statement. It's redundant. What you're judging as not impressive isn't football as a whole.

Again, this has literally nothing to do with my posts regarding Eriksen and Dele in the Bournemouth games, so I'm not sure why you keep bringing it up other than to try to score imaginary points with arguments that are clearly straw men. Whether you can see that or not, they are. But I've covered this in my other posts and you refuse to see sense on it or to admit that it's irrelevant and the context of the two discussions was completely different. I said that Eriksen was dreadful in the first half and aside from the goal, was poor and I thought Dele was the best of our attackers in the first half. Neither of those two statements contradict me saying that 'when you take away goals it's not football,' regardless of how much you continue to claim it does. They were in completely different contexts. Not once did I say that a player can only be judged as playing well if he scores goals.

That whole second paragraph is a straw man because I never once said that a player can't have a poor game if he scores or a player can't be judged to have a good game if he doesn't score. And even when I asked for proof of either of your assertions regarding that in my last post you still can't prove it. So, yes, straw man.
 

Dharmabum

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Aug 16, 2003
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Charlie Nicholas seem to have a short memory indeed - and seem to have forgotten the "diving masters" during Wenger's golden ear, i.e. Pires and Henry. In fact, Henry took diving to another level in the EPL. Why doesn't he mention that?
On another note, yes Dele is an eccentric person, and player, and have to watch his antics on the pitch - but (a large) part of his eccentricity is also part of making him the player he is.

http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2017/10/1...s-dele-alli-is-creating-problems-for-himself/
 

popstar7

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Jan 14, 2012
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It won't have escaped Dele's notice that Llorente had a pretty good match last night and the boss now has another option when picking who plays. That's good for Pochettino, good for the team and it's good for Dele. I don't have any worries about him. He loves the spotlight, in the best way, and missing these CL games will have been painful for him. I think that and a slight doubt he hasn't felt for a while about being an automatic choice will give him the push he needs to get back to his best.
 

Dharmabum

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Hopefully this is true and also, hopefully, this is good news...

https://www.101greatgoals.com/news/jorge-mendes-mino-raiola-rejected-tottenham-star/

Alli rejects the offer
But on Saturday, the Times have reported that Alli is to reject the advances of the two super-agents.

In great news for Spurs fans, readers are told the following:

Dele Alli has no immediate plans to sign up with a leading sports agency despite being courted by Jorge Mendes and Mino Raiola, who have both pledged to facilitate a transfer to one of Europe’s biggest clubs.

The Tottenham Hotspur midfielder’s contract negotiations with the club are being handled by Ian Lynam, his lawyer, of newly established law firm Northridge, and the Hickford family, who informally adopted Alli at the age of 13.

Alli is planning to sign a new contract at Tottenham without any other external advice, although his former agent, Rob Segal, will be due compensation as Alli remains under contract to his company, Impact Sports Management
 

Blackrat1299

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Jan 8, 2006
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Not overly sure how to take this one really, somewhat backhanded apology really but I'll take it. However, I do hope most would disagree with you, I do my best to construct my arguments logically, air my opinions constructively and speak from as erudite a standpoint as possible. Beauty - beholder I guess.
Not sure if this is sarcasm or not, I will have to break it down and analyse it.
 
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