We don't see any players train, yet we all spend hours and hours on here debating the merits of who gets picked and how they are played, every game on here. Why does the "we don't see him train" only apply to academy kids ?
Yes, but not an opinion that should outweigh the opinions of the guy that sees him train every day. Again this is a point I have already made - I'm not saying that Pochettino is infallible and you should back his every decision unthinkingly, but when he's making a decision on a player you have very limited information on, you should defer to his better knowledge. I've seen plenty of Edwards, and I'm excited by him. I was disappointed that he wasn't included. But that doesn't mean I think it was the wrong decision, because I trust that Pochettino has seen a lot more of him than me and knows better. Frankly I think it's quite arrogant for anyone to think they know better than the guy who watches him every day based on his performances in youth team football.We understand that playing U23, U19, U18 and similar international levels isn't the same as playing first team games, but it's not a different sport either, and it doesn't count for nothing as you seem to suggest. We can still form good, reliable opinions if we watch these players play many 90 minutes at these levels.
Can't understand this one, I really don't see what GKN offers over Edwards apart from being a little bit stronger and French. He doesnt have the dribbling ability or end product of Edwards.
I'd be very frustrated if I was in his position tbh. Especially if I'm captain of a youth team and someone 2 years younger than me is getting opportunities in the first team.
For me the worst thing is that we actually need a player with Edwards abilities in our team. If we had a squad full of players that could take people on then I could understand it. But we're severely lacking in this area so I can't see how it would hurt putting him on the bench tomorrow and bringing him on for 10 minutes.
What's really the worst that could happen?
We've been told many times he knows what he has to do. I doubt his lack of involvement tomorrow has come as a shock to him - he's clearly on a very specific programme to get him to where we want him to be. Be patient.regardless of where we all stand on this, have to admit this is gonna take a lot of maturity for him to deal with. imagine knocking on the door last year, being on the verge, getting a couple injuries and now not making the squad to face a championship side in the league cup. when you think a guy like sissoko, gkn have/will be taking minutes in spots he could fill. when hes seeing a teammate in TOB leapfrog him, when tonight hes playing in front of a few people when by next month, if given the chance, he could be playing in front of a full wembley, with the likes of kane, lloris and the other first teamers, against other premier league players hes looked up to for years. guy is almost 19, a baby but its not crazy for a boy his age to break through.
thats part and parcel of being a young player. but this is a special case, not just for his talent, but how long this dream has been a very realistic thought on his mind. teams will be trying every trick they can they turn his head and make him sour. its a balancing act for poch here.
against a big bulky championship team that will hopefully be losing by a few, you then get frustrated players not happy with a young kid dancing rings around, that the frustration get's to them and he is set back another year due to injury.
when he came on in the 3 pre-season friendlies the other year he was just bouncing off the opposition, if he hasn't built up his core strength then playing against a bulky team from the Championship could set him back again.
And not injured3 league starts in the last 43, now can't even get a start in a CM3 over Sissoko. And the only thing Sissoko does better than Winks as a CM is be big.
Maybe you're right but don't get ahead of yourself there, when was the last time we beat an English team in 90 mins at Wembley again?
We have plenty of competitive matches to base opinions about first-team players on, often hundreds of games. We don't have this with youth team players. Basically no one on here has a relevant opinion on Edwards as a first-team option because the limit of their knowledge of him as a first-team player is limited to the twenty minutes he played last year. This is the third time I've explained this point - if you don't agree with it fine, but it would help if you acknowledged that it exists.
Yes, but not an opinion that should outweigh the opinions of the guy that sees him train every day. Again this is a point I have already made - I'm not saying that Pochettino is infallible and you should back his every decision unthinkingly, but when he's making a decision on a player you have very limited information on, you should defer to his better knowledge. I've seen plenty of Edwards, and I'm excited by him. I was disappointed that he wasn't included. But that doesn't mean I think it was the wrong decision, because I trust that Pochettino has seen a lot more of him than me and knows better. Frankly I think it's quite arrogant for anyone to think they know better than the guy who watches him every day based on his performances in youth team football.
Absolutely. Poch doubtless knows more about football than most of us ever will, but this is a discussion forum about (mainly) Spurs, and a big part of sport is fans talking about their team. That includes team selection and everything else.i know you've explained your reasons why but i still don't see why that's arrogant but it's not arrogant to question why he played son at lwb, or why son got subbed and not alli, or why he plays sissoko, or why he even signed sissoko in the first place and so on and so forth. you can caveat it all you like but they all amount to the same thing. this forum wouldn't be very active if differing opinions to that of pochettino and anyone else at the club weren't allowed, it would basically just be @Trix talking to himself.
Like who, and how can you back up that statement?
We have plenty of competitive matches to base opinions about first-team players on, often hundreds of games. We don't have this with youth team players. Basically no one on here has a relevant opinion on Edwards as a first-team option because the limit of their knowledge of him as a first-team player is limited to the twenty minutes he played last year. This is the third time I've explained this point - if you don't agree with it fine, but it would help if you acknowledged that it exists.
Yes, but not an opinion that should outweigh the opinions of the guy that sees him train every day. Again this is a point I have already made - I'm not saying that Pochettino is infallible and you should back his every decision unthinkingly, but when he's making a decision on a player you have very limited information on, you should defer to his better knowledge. I've seen plenty of Edwards, and I'm excited by him. I was disappointed that he wasn't included. But that doesn't mean I think it was the wrong decision, because I trust that Pochettino has seen a lot more of him than me and knows better. Frankly I think it's quite arrogant for anyone to think they know better than the guy who watches him every day based on his performances in youth team football.
To put all this into context, Edwards is 18 years and 290 days today.
David Beckham was 19 years and 306 days when he made his league debut for Preston NE, on loan from United. Prior to this he'd made just one sub appearance in the league cup as 17 year old.
Paul Scholes made his professional debut at 19 years and 309 days.
Fergusson talks in his book how Beckham was a late developer, whilst Scholes had to overcome question marks over his stamina.
We just need to be patient.
(EDIT Beckham actually made 2 appearances for United 6 months earlier.)
But it is never this black and white. We sign players from different countries and leagues all the time that have no experience of our team, this league, this country, culture and base our belief on their future success on achievements under very different circumstances. League's less physical, more tactical, less competitive etc etc
It is not a simple case of everything we have seen at youth levels and U23 (which includes seniors) from Edwards is instantly disqualified from being able to inform a good opinion. We have watched Edwards in all his various levels and sub appearance for the first team. We watch shitloads of senior first team football. We are able to combine that knowledge to to form an opinion of what might happen if Edwards plays for the first team, because a) he has played against bigger, physical opponents lots of times, he has demonstrated an ability to cope with that, he will actually get better protection at first team level from refs, he will also be able to interact with even better quality players than he has so far in his career.
Can you acknowledge that?
We are not saying Edwards success at all youth levels merits him replacing a current first team player every week from now on, or guarantees he will be a future success, we are saying based on the fairly unique skill set we have seen him consistently display for years (and many of us have seen a lot more of him than Youtube clips, most of us have seen him play many full games at various different levels) and the talent pool we see every week currently available for the first team, the circumstances of this game - i.e. the Micky mouse cup - we believe Edwards is well worth a seat on the bench for this occasion. (we might say that for more games, but we are certainly saying it for this game).
But I don't have limited information on Edwards. And I could say the same to you. Unless you know the real reasons Poch is excluding Edwards and it's something we all don't know, you would be stupid to back his judgement blindly.
It's not arrogance, any more than posting any opinion that disagrees wit anything Poch or any other football coach or administrator makes is.
Not to point out the blindingly obvious, but Spurs (and therefore Edwards) do't play in any of those leagues.Quoting players in a league which is renowned for not giving youth much of chance isn't really proving much.
Ouseman Dembele was 17, Mbappe was 17, Messi was 18 (16 proper debut in a friendly), Pogba was 18, Neymar 17.
You really doubt this ?
Can you prove it's not?
I'm sure the odd person on here will have some anecdote about some kid they've heard of who was given a debut at some stage and it went badly, he emotionally collapsed never to be seen on a pitch again. But if we do the maths, I'm pretty sure we'd find those circumstances are pretty rare, possibly just prove the kid wasn't right for the profession anyway and probably wouldn't have had a career anyway, and there are thousands more who might have perfectly decent careers, or their careers would have started a hell of a lot sooner and been easier, if their clubs had just given them games instead buying hum drum players to pad out squads and block their path.
Quoting players in a league which is renowned for not giving youth much of chance isn't really proving much.
Ouseman Dembele was 17, Mbappe was 17, Messi was 18 (16 proper debut in a friendly), Pogba was 18, Neymar 17.
Another Dick bag not understanding the use of the Spam rating.