Player Watch Player Watch: Micky van de Ven

[FloridaSpur]

I know some of our fans don’t like to compare to Arsenal but sorry, if they can spend £180mil on Rice and Havertz and be targeting Cancelo etc then we sure as hell should be pulling the trigger on say a £70m total (£40m and £30m for Tapsoba and VDV) given our defence is absolutely our weakest area and outside of Romero who is a bit injury and suspension prone, we have pretty much no other CB’s of quality.

I don't know how up to date this is but:

The Independant May 2023 On CL: "Of that, each club was guaranteed at least £31.4m in equal share payments, £47.5m in international TV money and £5.9m in central commercial payments: a baseline of roughly £84.8m per team, regardless of position"

So in truth they can afford to spend the kind of money they are. Personally Rice is not worth that money but that's subjective i guess.

 

[rawhide]

Absolutely!!!




Lenglet.

If Lengelt can get past the post ahead of VdV then he’s clearly rapid…

 

[Neon_Knight_]

Wrong mate, VdV has 11 caps for the Dutch U21. He was not part of the Dutch youth setup before this. He has no senior caps at all.

Yes, I've already acknowledged that I miss-read U21 caps as senior caps in a subsequent post.

That VdV is more experienced now than what Saliba was in 2020 would be a matter of opinion and could be debated, but I’ll agree with you to some extent there. But as they are more or less exactly the same age, why would you make that comparison?

I think you've slightly missed my point.
I was responding the the fact that people expect VdV to want to sign even if we also sign Tapsoba, and to be open to being loaned out in the first instance. Saliba was used as an example of a CB who moved to the PL and bided his time, with the assertion that VdV should be willing to do the same.
Saliba (who is similar age to VdV) was willing to sign for Arsenal as a squad player / be loaned out. Apparently this means VdV should be equally open to this, despite being significantly older than Saliba was at the time of moving to the PL, so it's really not a like-for-like comparison. Had we tried to sign VdV earlier in his career, it would be more of a like-for-like comparison.

VdV is also more experienced now than what he was at the age of 20.

Which is precisely why he would now be less open to the idea of bench-warming / going out on loan than he may of been earlier in his career. Saliba agreed to that when he was a teenager, but had Arsenal waited until now to approach him, he probably would have been far more reluctant (now that he's 22, not 18).

A full year earlier than VdV started his senior career, Saliba had already played close to 20 games for Saint-Etienne. While VdV sat on the bench or in the stands for Wolfsburg in the season before last, Saliba played more than 50 games for Marseille, including 13 games in European cup competitions.

Saliba gained that experience after signing for Arsenal, during his third consecutive loan spell. If he'd had that experience when Arsenal came in for him, he presumably would not have been open to entertaining the possibility of joining Arsenal as "one for the future" to be sent straight back out on loan.

VdV has to date less than 90 senior games to his name. A (small) majority of those in the second tier of Dutch football. no senior caps for his country and has never played in European club competitions.

Saliba had only 22 senior games to his name and some of those were in second tier football. VdV has played 41 games in top-flight German football (superior top-flight French football), plus 20 games for a second-tier Dutch team. So VdV has over twice as much playing experience in senior club football as Saliba had at the time of signing for Arsenal.

One could argue that it is somewhat of a gamble to pay such an amount of money for such an unproven player. But that is football at this level I guess: sometimes you have to roll the dice.

I agree, which is why I (along with plenty of others here on SC) would prefer to pay the extra for Tapsoba, who appears to be far more proven and further along in his development.
Signing any young player is a gamble - especially if they play in another league / country. VdV would make far more sense to me as a squad player for us to attempt to develop, rather than hanging onto deadwood to make up the numbers, but I can't see us convincing VdV to join if we also sign Tapsoba (or someone equivalent).

 

[Neon_Knight_]

Royal could also be a pretty good option at centre back. In that scenario, we'd only need one of the two.

He has shown that he can do a job as a RCB in a back three/five (and as a RB who drops in as a RCB, in a team that switches between a back three/four, depending whether in or out of possession).
I'm not aware that he's proven as a RCB in a back four. I'm not saying he couldn't be successfully developed into a CB for a 4-3-3 formation, but I do think he'd need to be developed on the training ground over a period of time, rather than thrown in their next season.

 

[Cinemattis]

Yes, I've already acknowledged that I miss-read U21 caps as senior caps in a subsequent post.


I think you've slightly missed my point.
I was responding the the fact that people expect VdV to want to sign even if we also sign Tapsoba, and to be open to being loaned out in the first instance. Saliba was used as an example of a CB who moved to the PL and bided his time, with the assertion that VdV should be willing to do the same.
Saliba (who is similar age to VdV) was willing to sign for Arsenal as a squad player / be loaned out. Apparently this means VdV should be equally open to this, despite being significantly older than Saliba was at the time of moving to the PL, so it's really not a like-for-like comparison. Had we tried to sign VdV earlier in his career, it would be more of a like-for-like comparison.


Which is precisely why he would now be less open to the idea of bench-warming / going out on loan than he may of been earlier in his career. Saliba agreed to that when he was a teenager, but had Arsenal waited until now to approach him, he probably would have been far more reluctant (now that he's 22, not 18).


Saliba gained that experience after signing for Arsenal, during his third consecutive loan spell. If he'd had that experience when Arsenal came in for him, he presumably would not have been open to entertaining the possibility of joining Arsenal as "one for the future" to be sent straight back out on loan.


Saliba had only 22 senior games to his name and some of those were in second tier football. VdV has played 41 games in top-flight German football (superior top-flight French football), plus 20 games for a second-tier Dutch team. So VdV has over twice as much playing experience in senior club football as Saliba had at the time of signing for Arsenal.


I agree, which is why I (along with plenty of others here on SC) would prefer to pay the extra for Tapsoba, who appears to be far more proven and further along in his development.
Signing any young player is a gamble - especially if they play in another league / country. VdV would make far more sense to me as a squad player for us to attempt to develop, rather than hanging onto deadwood to make up the numbers, but I can't see us convincing VdV to join if we also sign Tapsoba (or someone equivalent).

Thanks for a brilliant reply!

 

[YiddoInPoland]

Isnt he a bit raw to ve our new starting CB?

 

[Ruffinthepuffin]

Isnt he a bit raw to ve our new starting CB?

Very much so.

Don’t get me wrong, he’s going to be a brilliant player and I really want him but that’s why I think Tapsoba is absolutely vital too.

 

[Bing]

Isnt he a bit raw to ve our new starting CB?

It's a fair point....same could be said of Tapsoba in all honesty.

I think a lot of us are getting very excited about these two lads - they are young and not quite proven yet. Personally I find it hard to get too excited about either of them but happy to place my trust in the scotuing set up that we have identified quality. I do feel though that if we expect them to come in and be the answer to our problems on day 1 we could well be disapointed. Just look at Porro's first few months and he was further down the line than either of these lads.

The furstrating thing for me is the valuations have gone insane...the clubs are looking for top top dollar here...it's not a game we are going to play too often so we will have to pick and choose.

 

[Maxtremist]

Isnt he a bit raw to ve our new starting CB?

Admitedly I haven't followed all of his career, but I would have said the same about Saliba at Arsenal and yet he seems to be their most vital

(Yes, I know he had seasons on loan away from there but he only really played for them for one season)

 

[YiddoInPoland]

Admitedly I haven't followed all of his career, but I would have said the same about Saliba at Arsenal and yet he seems to be their most vital

(Yes, I know he had seasons on loan away from there but he only really played for them for one season)

Yeah but that is the difference here right? They bought Saliba for the potential and not to do a job right here and now and that is was confuses me about this, not his signing but the expectation about what he will deliver with his limited experience, Tapsoba is at least further along that journey.

Gonna say with the above i watch zero football outside of spurs just seems a bit crazy to pin hopes on someone so young when we have massive gaps in that part of the team

 

[ShriekinKnight]

Darren Lewis from the Mirror says VdV is close

Tottenham close in on fifth transfer as Postecoglou's priorities become clear

Tottenham manager Ange Postecoglou is beginning to stamp his authority on his new side, who are close to signing Wolfsburg defender Micky van de Ven as part of their restructure

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[Maxtremist]

 

[THFCSPURS19]

how the fuck did you beat me to posting this

 

[Fredo]

how the fuck did you beat me to posting this

take the positives out of it, you're not the saddest **** on here

 

[spursfan77]

Sounds close but we thought that about two weeks ago.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Swear down, if someone replies in this thread with, 'that's cool but we really need van de Ven AND Tapsoba', imma lose it.

 

[Stoof]

From the chap who called Maddz Medical …

 

[Gollorius]

That Yarlett bloke on twitter just posted this. Edit @Stoof beat me to it

 

[Hotspur88]

It is close now

 

[Pochemon94]

Darren has been spot on this window. So looking good. Can always take a turn but been happy with we have been going about this window. For once we look pretty decisive.