Ex-Player Watch Player watch: Nathan Oduwa

[dovahkiin]

Where did Windy say this Dov ?

on coys THFC academy thread part 2 page 9
http://i.imgur.com/Oyzo9pU.png

 

[IGSpur]

Mark Warburton is a manager who knows how to guide and manage young players, he said that Oduwa's loan was cut short because he wasn't 'mentally right'

Got a link?

 

[DaSpurs]

It's a good job that players like Modric, Waddle and Gascoigne weren't judged on their body build.

Not all players are the same, and not all builds prevent success at the same position. Hate to say it, but you could see it from miles away that this kid didn't have the coordination or control over his center of gravity for success at this level. Maybe someday he'll prove me wrong, but unfortunately at this point it appears as if this one of the few kids it was the easiest to make a prediction on several years ago.

 

[garryparkerschest]

Whilst you are right that British football favours power and work-rate over individual expression, it's just our football culture and we can't change it that easily.

We've still produced plenty of maverick off the cuff geniuses over the years though - from Best and Marsh, through to Gazza and Beardsley.

Problem is that these type of players don't develop through organised 11 a side games where you get 5 touches per match, or even 5 a side games with a teacher as a ref.

It comes from street football, where most players used to learn the game, particularly in what used to be tough working class cities like Liverpool and Newcastle. No ref, playing with all sizes of kids, the good players develop tricks and skills to protect themselves and thrive.

Problem is that street football is increasingly rare in this country as space is at a premium in our cities.

Really liked your reply. We could name quite a few players since the 70's who technically were on par with their peers over the channel but contrary to our friends in Europe these players were never trusted. Our very own genius, Hoddle was never used correctly, in the early 90's, we had Waddle, Barnes, Hoddle and Beardsley. If those four players played for any other team, they would have won an international tournament, instead of being allowed to express themselves they were expected to play within a rigid shape.

England have never trusted technically advance players to the detriment of the National team.

I have a 7 year old and haven't got him playing competitively yet, one reason for this is he's got more edge than Diego Costa and secondly I think it's more important that he develops his own personality and style rather than being trained mechanically.

I believe in the Coever technique to a point but players who are self taught seem to progress more.

 

[garryparkerschest]

Not all players are the same, and not all builds prevent success at the same position. Hate to say it, but you could see it from miles away that this kid didn't have the coordination or control over his center of gravity for success at this level. Maybe someday he'll prove me wrong, but unfortunately at this point it appears as if this one of the few kids it was the easiest to make a prediction on several years ago.

I don't agree with you, although he's 19, he still has time to develop what you are looking for but looking at him since he was 16, I've never notice a shortage in his physical development.

Find what you say intriguing even though I don't agree with it.

 

[DaSpurs]

I don't agree with you, although he's 19, he still has time to develop what you are looking for but looking at him since he was 16, I've never notice a shortage in his physical development.

Find what you say intriguing even though I don't agree with it.

To be more blunt, no, it is extremely unlikely he will develop what I'm looking for, as the "inhibitory issue" I first noticed with him involves a skeletal matter, and at this point he's likely reached full skeletal maturity.

Fwiw, you may have noted that I'm an adamant defender of Carroll in his thread, and have been for awhile throughout the forum. There are players whose body types which are seen by the majority as "insufficient" who I've stood up for, but unfortunately that doesn't mean all players are equal, and nor that all scouts have thrown physical criteria and assessment of bodily development entirely out the window. I'll be the first to admit that I don't always get it right myself, but with Oduwa, he was one I felt pretty confident on making a prediction on with relatively little evidence.

I would certainly still love for him to prove me wrong mind you, just as a certain fella you may have heard of by the name of "Harry Kane" did (although with him it was a technical call more than physical).

 

[dovahkiin]

windy again, when asked if the club has let oduwa know he has no future at the club:
I don't know, but I'd be *very* surpised if the club were writing him off! It's all from him - apparently he knows he's not going to be a Spurs player long-term.

 

[Sanj]

I'm shocked that people see him as a high potential player in our academy, obviously I'd be disappointed if we're letting a player go at 19 when he still has crucial years to develop but there are far more stand-out players in the academy right now than Oduwa. I've been to a fair amount of U21s matches over the last couple of years and combined with what I've seen from Luton and Rangers, there is nothing special I've seen compared to how well players like KWP, Carter-Vickers and Onomah have performed/ are performing. I think that because he has the odd step-over and trick in his locker, he's being overrated

He has a decent record at U21 level so it's odd that we're giving up on him or willing to let him go, especially with how light the U21s are for strikers and wing forwards. Although with good prospects in the U18 in Edwards, Sterling and Bennetts, maybe we are looking to promote them next year and don't see a future for Oduwa. It says a lot when Poch was talking about backup for Kane he referred to Harrison and Sterling rather than Oduwa despite Oduwa having more experience

I'm not going to discuss the merits of Oduwa - because all of you know a lot more about him than i do.
However, the piece in Bold really interested me.

The fact that he is being deemed to be over-rated because he has a skill or 2. I agree that this should not mark him out as anything special - but unfortunately in this day and age it does.
How many English players can you name who can actually utilise a Step-over to go by a player, rather than just a piece of showboating before turning and passing backwards again?
We do not/ have not developed many players like this in the English league for a number of years - and we should really be looking to harness players with a natural ability such as this and really bring on the team play. I remember a young, skinny and gangly Cristiano at Utd - who frustrated the hell out of his teammates because he tried to beat a player, and then beat him again. He turned out all right, with the right coaching as well as his own desire to succeed.
Now I'm not saying Oduwa will be a Ronaldo, but we (as a club, as a country, as an FA organisation) have to try and develop that natural ability and encourage more children to play without fear and to use their imagination.
How many English playersxcan really get us off of our seats now? The buzz of excitement as the ball falls to their feet - the anticipation of that next trick to skin the defender?

Damn i miss players like that and for that reason alone - i do not want to believe you Oduwa nay-sayers (however right you may be).

 

[beats1]

I'm shocked that people see him as a high potential player in our academy, obviously I'd be disappointed if we're letting a player go at 19 when he still has crucial years to develop but there are far more stand-out players in the academy right now than Oduwa. I've been to a fair amount of U21s matches over the last couple of years and combined with what I've seen from Luton and Rangers, there is nothing special I've seen compared to how well players like KWP, Carter-Vickers and Onomah have performed/ are performing. I think that because he has the odd step-over and trick in his locker, he's being overrated

He has a decent record at U21 level so it's odd that we're giving up on him or willing to let him go, especially with how light the U21s are for strikers and wing forwards. Although with good prospects in the U18 in Edwards, Sterling and Bennetts, maybe we are looking to promote them next year and don't see a future for Oduwa. It says a lot when Poch was talking about backup for Kane he referred to Harrison and Sterling rather than Oduwa despite Oduwa having more experience

You're comparing him to Onomah but in terms of development, Oduwa would be more like Maghoma. Onomah has had a lot more time to develop as he has been in the youth teams early but not just that, this is his 3rd season as an academy player

As for Oduwa he has only had 2 seasons as an academy which due to going to WBA and being out for over a year. Before his injuries he was very good and looked one of the better prospects we had

I disagree about the step over bit as he has a got a good record with the youth team and actually has been always a threat on goal though the opposite could be said about him when on loan

 

[garryparkerschest]

To be more blunt, no, it is extremely unlikely he will develop what I'm looking for, as the "inhibitory issue" I first noticed with him involves a skeletal matter, and at this point he's likely reached full skeletal maturity.

Fwiw, you may have noted that I'm an adamant defender of Carroll in his thread, and have been for awhile throughout the forum. There are players whose body types which are seen by the majority as "insufficient" who I've stood up for, but unfortunately that doesn't mean all players are equal, and nor that all scouts have thrown physical criteria and assessment of bodily development entirely out the window. I'll be the first to admit that I don't always get it right myself, but with Oduwa, he was one I felt pretty confident on making a prediction on with relatively little evidence.

I would certainly still love for him to prove me wrong mind you, just as a certain fella you may have heard of by the name of "Harry Kane" did (although with him it was a technical call more than physical).

You obviously know your stuff regarding skeletons and so on.

It's going to be interesting to see how he develops.

PS Happy Birthday

 

[Krafty]

Maybe it shows a bit of mental fragility from Nathan that he doesn't think he will make it, rather than thinking he will prove them wrong.

I'm a little surprised by his season to date - was in the first team friendlies at the Lodge and seemed to be doing well. Started off very well at Rangers, but after a couple of months stopped being picked. Then not even appearing for the youth sides, never mind the senior squad.

Would be a shame because he obviously has ability, and seemed to be improving, although worrying he went off the ball at Rangers (and didn't force his way into the Luton team when there). I assume there is something missing, that you can't see in highlights or the odd game.

 

[danielneeds]

windy again, when asked if the club has let oduwa know he has no future at the club:
I don't know, but I'd be *very* surpised if the club were writing him off! It's all from him - apparently he knows he's not going to be a Spurs player long-term.

Not a very positive mindset, for sure.

 

[DEFchenkOE]

Being a winger myself in my younger days, I love a player that can beat a man and open up space. Oduwa is able to do this and we don't have too many players in our team that can. It's for this reason I hope he can turn things around and somehow get in Poch's plans maybe for next season as a bench option.

People say about him doing stepovers etc but personally I like to see this. Where I think he may struggle and will need to work on is the defensive side of his game, and to do what Poch expects from the attacking 3 and that's press from the front. He seems like the winger version of Adebayor at times so will need to add more aggression to his game.

His unpredictability makes him worth persevering with imo. Could have done with him against palace in the last 15-20 mins on Sunday.

 

[spurs9]

Whilst you are right that British football favours power and work-rate over individual expression, it's just our football culture and we can't change it that easily.

We've still produced plenty of maverick off the cuff geniuses over the years though - from Best and Marsh, through to Gazza and Beardsley.

Problem is that these type of players don't develop through organised 11 a side games where you get 5 touches per match, or even 5 a side games with a teacher as a ref.

It comes from street football, where most players used to learn the game, particularly in what used to be tough working class cities like Liverpool and Newcastle. No ref, playing with all sizes of kids, the good players develop tricks and skills to protect themselves and thrive.

Problem is that street football is increasingly rare in this country as space is at a premium in our cities.

Fortunately, whilst street football is declining, Futsal is on the increase and this is an even better way of developing technique and individual expression. It will take a while for the progress to show, but with Futsal rising in popularity combined with progressive academies (like ours) that values development over results, we should see an increase in the players coming through.

The big hurdles England face are getting rid of the old dinosaur coaches that look for results rather than development, meaning they go for physically developed kids to get results, especially at national level (most age groups), which is happening slowly, but is happening and also having teams that will risk playing younger players rather than signing superstars, which is difficult to over come with the pressure managers are under especially with the money involved in football these days, but I think teams like us having success doing this, will influence a lot of teams to give it a go.

I think something needs to be done in regards to poaching at a young age, as Chelsea, Man City and Liverpool do this often, where as if they had stayed at their original teams, some players would have seen PL football by now (e.g Issiah Brown made his PL debut almost 3 years ago for WBA, he then moved to Chelsea).

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Going to Colchester according to this:

http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2016/02/23/lspurs-starlet-oduwa-in-line-for-colchester-loan/

 

[IGSpur]

Fortunately, whilst street football is declining, Futsal is on the increase and this is an even better way of developing technique and individual expression. It will take a while for the progress to show, but with Futsal rising in popularity combined with progressive academies (like ours) that values development over results, we should see an increase in the players coming through.

Guess that's why our coaches have our youth teams playing at Futsal tournaments

 

[DaSpurs]

Fortunately, whilst street football is declining, Futsal is on the increase and this is an even better way of developing technique and individual expression. It will take a while for the progress to show, but with Futsal rising in popularity combined with progressive academies (like ours) that values development over results, we should see an increase in the players coming through.

The big hurdles England face are getting rid of the old dinosaur coaches that look for results rather than development, meaning they go for physically developed kids to get results, especially at national level (most age groups), which is happening slowly, but is happening and also having teams that will risk playing younger players rather than signing superstars, which is difficult to over come with the pressure managers are under especially with the money involved in football these days, but I think teams like us having success doing this, will influence a lot of teams to give it a go.

I think something needs to be done in regards to poaching at a young age, as Chelsea, Man City and Liverpool do this often, where as if they had stayed at their original teams, some players would have seen PL football by now (e.g Issiah Brown made his PL debut almost 3 years ago for WBA, he then moved to Chelsea).

I'm glad you hit on the futsal point, as I think the increasing incorporation of that into football development throughout Europe is going to make a big difference in a) the way the game will be played (for the better IMO) and b) the overall quality and balance of youth development. It's no coincidence that so many of the top young talents from Europe are citing the fact that they played extra futsal in their childhood/adolescent years (Schalke's Max Meyer for example).

I'm looking forward to seeing the results of this change in development plans.

Agreed on the rest of the post of course.

 

[Armstrong_11]

Digging up this thread...

https://ninetyminutesonline.com/spurs-midfielder-move-transfer-window-closes-due-loophole/

Don't think it's fair to call it a loop hole, more of a different transfer window period.

Anyway I think he is a decent prospect, but if Poch doesn't see him as one. Then I guess he is gone... Since we know how ruthless he can be.

Would be happy if it's just a loan. But hopefully a buy back option in the deal.

 

[FreddieYid]

Digging up this thread...

https://ninetyminutesonline.com/spurs-midfielder-move-transfer-window-closes-due-loophole/

Don't think it's fair to call it a loop hole, more of a different transfer window period.

Anyway I think he is a decent prospect, but if Poch doesn't see him as one. Then I guess he is gone... Since we know how ruthless he can be.

Would be happy if it's just a loan. But hopefully a buy back option in the deal.

He's flattered to deceive on a few loan moves, isn't anywhere near the first team and I don't see him having any kind of future with us.

Good luck to him though and I hope he goes on to have decent career somewhere.

 

[garryparkerschest]

He's flattered to deceive on a few loan moves, isn't anywhere near the first team and I don't see him having any kind of future with us.

Good luck to him though and I hope he goes on to have decent career somewhere.

I personally feel that there's only so much you can take from a Loan. I know he's had a few but mainly it's for experiencing the world of a man's football. Perforamces are an added bonus.

A player like Oduwa was always going to struggle in League One and below. The pitches, the players not being on his wave length, not many have had very successful loan periods. The only one I remember being exceptional is Pritchard with Brentford and unluckily, he failed to progress with us.

Even Harry Kane, bar a short stint with Millwall struggled at his majority of loan clubs.

I don't know why but feel Oduwa has the ability to make it in the premiership and if coached right take it by storm.

A Football career is such a fragile profression but if lady luck goes his way he could reach the heights of Alli.

I could be wrong.