Player Watch - Tanguy Ndombele

[Shanks]

The bizarre thing when it comes to mentality and so on is that we can sit on our arses and call him lazy, but in order to become the player he was at Lyon he must have worked extremely hard, been extremely dedicated, taken his chances when they were before him and showed enormous mental strength in those key moments. No young footballer that gets pro, certainly not Champions League level pro, has half arsed it.

But what's happened since and his attitude and application since signing for us is in stark contrast to how he must have been in order to become so good that we paid that much money for him.

Yeah, bizarre.

I see first hand how much hard work and dedication is needed from a young age, but likewise I’ve also seen several very talented youngsters drop off on effort and commitment after that first year pro deal too

 

[thebenjamin]

Can you imagine how good a motivated and fit Ndombele would be in the 6 role for us

He wouldn't be. It's not just because he's lazy that he isn't good enough. He has no idea what to do out of possession.

 

[Locotoro]

He wouldn't be. It's not just because he's lazy that he isn't good enough. He has no idea what to do out of possession.

Fair point.

I remember reading an athletic article which made the assertion that we (under Jose) were using him completely differently to how Lyon had used him. At Lyon he was a 6 in a double pivot whereas I think Jose used him as a 10.

I know it's not going to happen anyway but it would be nice to see him focus on his career again and hopefully get a club to come in for him

 

[Adam456]

Though i think Hitchin was very poor at his job, it's not the player we sign that is the problem it's the player they become after a big money move.

Best the first true superstar of the game was flawed and though N'Dombele never really set the game on fire at Spurs he was never that poor before he joined us.

I mean look what happened to Dele?

Last season fans were saying Porro was a waste of money but part (maybe a small part or not) is down to the way he was managed by Conte.

A lot of teams are littered with players who never lived up to their reputations including those signed by Fergie, Clough, Paisley and the like.

The bizarre thing when it comes to mentality and so on is that we can sit on our arses and call him lazy, but in order to become the player he was at Lyon he must have worked extremely hard, been extremely dedicated, taken his chances when they were before him and showed enormous mental strength in those key moments. No young footballer that gets pro, certainly not Champions League level pro, has half arsed it.

But what's happened since and his attitude and application since signing for us is in stark contrast to how he must have been in order to become so good that we paid that much money for him.

I'll try to dig out the article but the thing is he hasn't just become lazy after we bought him.

I can't remember exactly but it was something like at the club that sold him to Lyon he basically downed tools as well and was sent out on loan to a lower league side where I think his natural talent was enough and he seemed to knuckle down a bit. Then he got the big move to Lyon and whoever was managing him there obviously managed to motivate him

If we had done our due diligence properly we'd have picked up on that, like probably all of the other big European clubs obviously had (we had managed to pick him up virtually unchallenged and for a fee that was less than seemed to be demanded beforehand - should have rung alarms by itself...)

 

[Neon_Knight_]

Fair point.

I remember reading an athletic article which made the assertion that we (under Jose) were using him completely differently to how Lyon had used him. At Lyon he was a 6 in a double pivot whereas I think Jose used him as a 10.

I know it's not going to happen anyway but it would be nice to see him focus on his career again and hopefully get a club to come in for him

Didn't he play as an 8 in a double pivot under Poch (+ initially under José), with Sissoko as the 6, and then get moved to the 10 role by José? I would guess that it was his shortomcings out of possession that led to him being played as a 10. While he did offer creativity as a 10 at times, I wouldn't say his creativity drastically increased from the 10 role compared to 8....but it did strengthen our midfield out of possession (especially as we didn't play a high press under José).

 

[Adam456]

I'll try to dig out the article but the thing is he hasn't just become lazy after we bought him.

I can't remember exactly but it was something like at the club that sold him to Lyon he basically downed tools as well and was sent out on loan to a lower league side where I think his natural talent was enough and he seemed to knuckle down a bit. Then he got the big move to Lyon and whoever was managing him there obviously managed to motivate him

If we had done our due diligence properly we'd have picked up on that, like probably all of the other big European clubs obviously had (we had managed to pick him up virtually unchallenged and for a fee that was less than seemed to be demanded beforehand - should have rung alarms by itself...)

Indeed even his Wiki suggests that lots of teams wouldn't touch him due to his fitness / weight and that he had to drop down 2 divisions to stand out (though I appreciate that nuances could have been added retrospectively given his current rep)

Tanguy Ndombele - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Locotoro]

Didn't he play as an 8 in a double pivot under Poch (+ initially under José), with Sissoko as the 6, and then get moved to the 10 role by José? I would guess that it was his shortomcings out of possession that led to him being played as a 10. While he did offer creativity as a 10 at times, I wouldn't say his creativity drastically increased from the 10 role compared to 8....but it did strengthen our midfield out of possession (especially as we didn't play a high press under José).

Yes I think Porch did but after an injury and Poch getting the sack. The article's main premise was that whilst TN was creative as a 10 he was better as a 6/8 because he was under less pressure further back the pitch and he could break a press and start an attack without actually having the explosive speed or power to break into the box and finish an attack.

 

[Dwallace]

Indeed even his Wiki suggests that lots of teams wouldn't touch him due to his fitness / weight and that he had to drop down 2 divisions to stand out (though I appreciate that nuances could have been added retrospectively given his current rep)

Tanguy Ndombele - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Good stuff. Maybe we can get him to try and hike up Mount everest that will get his fitness up.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

Yes I think Porch did but after an injury and Poch getting the sack. The article's main premise was that whilst TN was creative as a 10 he was better as a 6/8 because he was under less pressure further back the pitch and he could break a press and start an attack without actually having the explosive speed or power to break into the box and finish an attack.

Breaking the press is what he's best at imo, but unfortunately he seems to struggle out of possession in those deeper roles in the PL.

Despite the obvious issues with his attitude / application, I do think his tactical awareness and positioning were his primary shortcoming. His best and most impactful performances in a Spurs shirt were during our ridiculously congested start to the 2020-21 season, in the no.10 role - for about a month in that period I was feeling optimisitic that he might actually live up to his transfer fee.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

Though i think Hitchin was very poor at his job, it's not the player we sign that is the problem it's the player they become after a big money move.

Best the first true superstar of the game was flawed and though N'Dombele never really set the game on fire at Spurs he was never that poor before he joined us.

There were known issues before we signed him. For what ever reason, we chose to overlook this (as Poch seemingly wanted us to do in our pursuit of Berahino). I blame the recruitment team for this, rather than Hitchin specifically. From the perspective of a scout watching him at games during the two years before we signed him, Ndombele ticked a lot of boxes as the heir to Dembele.

I mean look what happened to Dele?

I'd be very impressed if a scout could foresee future mental health issues or dig up past traumas that even the player's closest friends and relatives are unaware of.
I really hope Dele manages to make something of the remainder of his career. Physically, he potentially has half a decade left at the top level.

Last season fans were saying Porro was a waste of money but part (maybe a small part or not) is down to the way he was managed by Conte.

Yes, Bissouma was also on track to be a flop under Conte...now look at him! Once a player has failed to impress 3-4 consecutive managers (e.g. Spence & Rodon), the recruitment becomes more questionable, but man-management is definitely a huge factor in the success/failure of signings throughout professional sport.

A lot of teams are littered with players who never lived up to their reputations including those signed by Fergie, Clough, Paisley and the like.

Exactly! The main difference between us and the "big clubs" is that the money wasted on flops is of less consequence to them than us.

 

[TheHoddleWaddle]

The whole world of 'what if' could end up giving everyone a free pass. Let's not call out unprofessional behaviour just in case? Calling it out might prompt assistance anyway.

Boy lacks motivation for me. End of.

I'm sure at some point, prior to the big contract he showed a bit of effort. But post big contract I've never seen a single thing from him to suggest he is anything but happy with his pay cheque and not bothered about anything. He was/is a lazy player on the pitch. I was amazed at his skill to start with too.

One of those players you would hope the club will put down to experience to help inform better down the line.

 

[Shanks]

There were known issues before we signed him. For what ever reason, we chose to overlook this (as Poch seemingly wanted us to do in our pursuit of Berahino). I blame the recruitment team for this, rather than Hitchin specifically. From the perspective of a scout watching him at games during the two years before we signed him, Ndombele ticked a lot of boxes as the heir to Dembele.


I'd be very impressed if a scout could foresee future mental health issues or dig up past traumas that even the player's closest friends and relatives are unaware of.
I really hope Dele manages to make something of the remainder of his career. Physically, he potentially has half a decade left at the top level.


Yes, Bissouma was also on track to be a flop under Conte...now look at him! Once a player has failed to impress 3-4 consecutive managers (e.g. Spence & Rodon), the recruitment becomes more questionable, but man-management is definitely a huge factor in the success/failure of signings throughout professional sport.


Exactly! The main difference between us and the "big clubs" is that the money wasted on flops is of less consequence to them than us.

Based on my experience so far they don’t tend to go into family side of things in the slightest.

I say that with caution but can only go by the fact there are currently pretty big prem clubs who are interested in my son, scouting him at games, speaking with agent, and also his club.

even his coaches don’t know too much about my sons back story as such, mostly interested in his ability and playing mindset.
Litwrally going through it all on a weekly basis, I mean it’s thorough but any investment normally is, just the decision making process we will go through over the next few months and trying to figure out the best way for him to move up that football ladder and maximise earning potential. But none have shown an interest in the family side, information eother comes from coaches, agents or if already in top leagues news outlets

 

[Locotoro]

Based on my experience so far they don’t tend to go into family side of things in the slightest.

I say that with caution but can only go by the fact there are currently pretty big prem clubs who are interested in my son, scouting him at games, speaking with agent, and also his club.

even his coaches don’t know too much about my sons back story as such, mostly interested in his ability and playing mindset.
Litwrally going through it all on a weekly basis, I mean it’s thorough but any investment normally is, just the decision making process we will go through over the next few months and trying to figure out the best way for him to move up that football ladder and maximise earning potential. But none have shown an interest in the family side, information eother comes from coaches, agents or if already in top leagues news outlets

I know this isn't the thread for it but what kind of family information would you expect them to investigate and find out ? What would would useful in stopping us finding another Ndombele?

 

[Rosco1984]

I’m not sure it’s a mental health thing or whether he has no hunger.

made an absolute fortune for his talent, enjoys the fruits more than football.

waste of money for us though, which is a shame as absolutely had potential to be a very top player.

he definitely has hunger

 

[McFlash]

Based on my experience so far they don’t tend to go into family side of things in the slightest.

I say that with caution but can only go by the fact there are currently pretty big prem clubs who are interested in my son, scouting him at games, speaking with agent, and also his club.

even his coaches don’t know too much about my sons back story as such, mostly interested in his ability and playing mindset.
Litwrally going through it all on a weekly basis, I mean it’s thorough but any investment normally is, just the decision making process we will go through over the next few months and trying to figure out the best way for him to move up that football ladder and maximise earning potential. But none have shown an interest in the family side, information eother comes from coaches, agents or if already in top leagues news outlets

Mate, buzzing for you that your lad's catching some eyes.
Still a long and hard road for you all to travel yet but both you and he must be incredibly proud of where he's got to so far.
It's testament to hard work, dedication and good support from yourself.

 

[Gilzeanking]

I blame the recruitment team for this, rather than Hitchin specifically.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

This thread is boring, nothing new here, why does it keep getting bumped.

 

[easley91]

I know this isn't the thread for it but what kind of family information would you expect them to investigate and find out ? What would would useful in stopping us finding another Ndombele?

It may not be family information, but Ange likes to get a feel for the player and their personality before saying yes or no. I do wonder if we were looking at Ndombele with the current set up would he have been signed? Probably not.

 

[McFlash]

This thread is boring, nothing new here, why does it keep getting bumped.

Because it's the international break and we're all bored.

 

[Shanks]

I know this isn't the thread for it but what kind of family information would you expect them to investigate and find out ? What would would useful in stopping us finding another Ndombele?

That’s the point really isn’t it, there isn’t anything scouting ‘could’ find out.

family or friends questioned randomly or approached at game are hardly going to jeopardise a contract (especially a multimillion pound one), they can only go by scouting reports which is based on training/matches - and if the clubs wanted rid, they aren’t going to be fully truthful in those training reports either