Player Watch Player Watch: Timo Werner

[Sp3akerboxxx]

Pedro Neto didn't stand out when he joined. He improved and took his chances as the team evovled. Wolves paid that price for what he might become and their foresight paid out.

Werners situation is different. He comes as an established player. Both the upside and downside to this deal is more limited.

That's the thing.

We all know Werner is definitely not going to improve at his age and experience.

Better served taking a punt with 15m than spending 15m on a guaranteed failure.

 

[ultimateloner]

That's the thing.

We all know Werner is definitely not going to improve at his age and experience.

Better served taking a punt with 15m than spending 15m on a guaranteed failure.

I disagree that Werner is a guranteed failure. He has contributed but his poor finishing restricts his upside.

If he's 15m then it's no wonder he is average PL quality. You get what you pay for.

I think it's more correct to say whether you would take a punt at 15m or have a squad option at that price.

My preference would be squad option because I hate losses.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

I disagree that Werner is a guranteed failure. He has contributed but his poor finishing restricts his upside.

If he's 15m then it's no wonder he is average PL quality. You get what you pay for.

I think it's more correct to say whether you would take a punt at 15m or have a squad option at that price.

My preference would be squad option because I hate losses.

I feel like you summed it up right there.

He's average PL quality.

But Ange says he wants to challenge for the title.

Average PL quality does not challenge for PL titles.

 

[ultimateloner]

I feel like you summed it up right there.

He's average PL quality.

But Ange says he wants to challenge for the title.

Average PL quality does not challenge for PL titles.

Ange has also said that Spurs will win as a collective and not through individual quality, implying sum>parts.

Who knows. The coach can say whatever he wants.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

Ange has also said that Spurs will win as a collective and not through individual quality, implying sum>parts.

Who knows. The coach can say whatever he wants.

That sum has to be of a general quality to = a title.

If we look at the last 3 PL winners (which I think are all city), would he make their bench?

In my mind he wouldn't.

 

[sparx100]

I like him. He works hard, has pace to burn and actually shows a brain in build up, that being said, unless he can become a goalscoring threat he is probably just more bloat to an already bloated squad.

 

[ultimateloner]

That sum has to be of a general quality to = a title.

If we look at the last 3 PL winners (which I think are all city), would he make their bench?

In my mind he wouldn't.

My belief is similar to yours, but Ange had said what he said.

This is why personally I dont actually believe that Ange is genuinely gunning for the title; i think he is just manipulating the player's belief system in order to get closer.

IMO from our squad, only Son is capable of starting for City. Romero might make it to the bench. No one else has enough quality/consistency to even make it to their first team. Take our leaders like Madders; each and every City AM is better/more proven/more versatile/more consistent than him. It's not close.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

My belief is similar to yours, but Ange had said what he said.

This is why personally I dont actually believe that Ange is genuinely gunning for the title; i think he is just manipulating the player's belief system in order to get closer.

IMO from our squad, only Son is capable of starting for City. Romero might make it to the bench. No one else has enough quality/consistency to even make it to their first team. Take our leaders like Madders; each and every City AM is better/more proven/more versatile/more consistent than him. It's not close.

But both the players you mentioned would definitely make their bench.

Werner wouldnt

He's at least a level below the two players you mentioned.

But if we're being cynical then the jury is out for Maddison about whether or not he is good enough.

However, the jury is in for Werner. And he isn't good enough.

 

[ultimateloner]

But both the players you mentioned would definitely make their bench.

Werner wouldnt

He's at least a level below the two players you mentioned.

But if we're being cynical then the jury is out for Maddison about whether or not he is good enough.

However, the jury is in for Werner. And he isn't good enough.

Which 2 players do you mean? I think only Son can start and Romero can go into City's bench; no other Spurs player would even make City's matchday sqaud.

In City's view IMO Werner and Madders are the same; neither would make their squad more competitive so neither would be considered.

I don't think it is against Werner that he isn't good enough for City. You can't mean that we should only consider player that are good enough for City right? Such players wont come to us.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

Which 2 players do you mean? I think only Son can start and Romero can go into City's bench; no other Spurs player would even make City's matchday sqaud.

In City's view IMO Werner and Madders are the same; neither would make their squad more competitive so neither would be considered.

I don't think it is against Werner that he isn't good enough for City. You can't mean that we should only consider player that are good enough for City right? Such players wont come to us.

Son, madders, Romero, vicario, VDV, Porro, Udogie would at least make their match day squad.

What I am saying is that a team with Werner in it is not going to be worthy of a title.

Pep would rather play someone like Oscar Bobb than playing Werner.

That's because Pep knows that Bobb at least has the CHANCE of becoming an elite player, rather than KNOWING that Werner never will.

 

[ultimateloner]

Son, madders, Romero, vicario, VDV, Porro, Udogie would at least make their match day squad.

What I am saying is that a team with Werner in it is not going to be worthy of a title.

Pep would rather play someone like Oscar Bobb than playing Werner.

That's because Pep knows that Bobb at least has the CHANCE of becoming an elite player, rather than KNOWING that Werner never will.

I think you are being over-generous/over-rating our players relative to City.

Take Madders.

His competition would be:
Bernado Silva; more versatile (can play CM, just as good as a play-maker with goals in him too), more proven
KDB; no need to explain.
Foden; no need to explain.
Grealish; this is probably closest but Grealish edges it for me. Carried Villa on his own, better injury record.
Doku; offers something diff to the rest due to his directness.
Alvarez; a worldcup-winner, better off-the-ball than on it which is what City needs.

You can run a similar comparison the other players.

I agree with you that Werner is a filler and wont make us better.
But if we are genuinely talking about title-winning quality then hardly anyone in the squad has the individual quality now. They need to improve and who knows whether they would reach.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

I think you are being over-generous/over-rating our players relative to City.

Take Madders.

His competition would be:
Bernado Silva; more versatile (can play CM, just as good as a play-maker with goals in him too), more proven
KDB; no need to explain.
Foden; no need to explain.
Grealish; this is probably closest but Grealish edges it for me. Carried Villa on his own, better injury record.
Doku; offers something diff to the rest due to his directness.
Alvarez; a worldcup-winner, better off-the-ball than on it which is what City needs.

You can run a similar comparison the other players.

I agree with you that Werner is a filler and wont make us better.
But if we are genuinely talking about title-winning quality then hardly anyone in the squad has the individual quality now. They need to improve and who knows whether they would reach.

So many city play an attacking midfield of 3.

At full strength on current form it would be Foden, De Bruyne, Silva

Grealish bench option for left, Doku bench option for right, Alvarez would become bench option for Haaland and Maddison bench option for KdB.

Son would probably start for them. Pep would do wonders with him.

Romero and VDV are better than their bench options, Udogie would start at LB over Gvardiol who would move to LCB.

Walker is on his way out and city are looking for his replacement. Rumour mill is they want Porro for that, and regardless, he makes the bench over Lewis at the very least.

This season I rate Vicario over Ederson, and he would easily make the bench regardless.

We need to start forward planning for a team that can win the title.

Werner isn't in that picture.

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

We need to start forward planning for a team that can win the title.

Werner isn't in that picture.

Many people would say Kovacic isn't in that picture - yet there he is.

 

[spurs mental]

I like Timo’s effort but I just feel his shortcomings and averageness rub off on the team.

You’re only as strong as your weakest link and when he’s constantly missing chances, losing the ball and smacking crosses out for goal kicks you can almost see the rest of the team’s heads drop.

This reads like you're blaming Timo for the rest of the teams under performance because he's not as good as the rest of them.

Which if it is the case, is utter nonsense. He's a good footballer and has contributed to the team in more ways than the likes of Madders, Kulu, Bissouma to name but 3 since he joined.

His apparent averageness doesn't "rub off" and make other players worse. They've been poor themselves and let themselves down. If one player in the team is having that effect on their own performances they shouldn't be at the club.

 

[easley91]

Guess Werner is the easy scapegoat now because of his reputation, age and is on loan. Which is funny as he has been our most consistent and creative outlet for goals prior to Newcastle. Him and Johnson (the other player some refuse to rate) have been our source of goals lately and deserve better recognition for it.

Yes Werner's finishing ability is poor, but it's his assists that are important here.

 

[Styopa]

I don’t think Werner is the scapegoat.

I think a lot of the questions about him revolve around the fact he’s on loan. If he was already here permanently I don’t think many people would be saying we should sell him as a matter of priority. Although I do think plenty of people in favour of his signing now will be wanting to upgrade within a couple of years.

But the fact he’s on loan means we can afford to be a little bit more critical about him. That sounds harsh but we know the problems we have with moving players once they are on permanent contracts. So whilst he may not be doing any worse than Kulusevski or Maddison or Johnson, there are more compelling reasons for questioning Werner’s role in the squad than theirs imo.

I would be happy if we sign him and I think he’s an effective player but I don’t think he solves our fundamental problems in the forward areas imo, which is the need for more guile.

 

[Blake Griffin]

Just for people thinking that 15m is a good fee for a player like Werner, that is pretty much the same price that wolves paid for Pedro Neto.

15m is a good fee for werner but the question should just be whether he's good enough or not. if the answer is no then the fee is irrelevant.

 

[HildoSpur]

I think we should sign him but only if we are able to move on Gil and possibly Solomon. Werner is a great squad option for us and enhances what we already have. If we just signed Werner then I'd probably be in agreement with most people here in that he alone isn't enough to raise our level. If however we sign him and also bring in a talented young wide attacker then I don't think many would complain about that. Werner and upcoming young talent is much better than Gil and Solomon.

 

[Stamford]

I don't think he's a scapegoat at all. I think everyone acknowledges he's done well but everyone wants to challenge and he isn't the level of player that gets you into the title conversations it's really that simple.

 

[Styopa]

I think we should sign him but only if we are able to move on Gil and possibly Solomon. Werner is a great squad option for us and enhances what we already have. If we just signed Werner then I'd probably be in agreement with most people here in that he alone isn't enough to raise our level. If however we sign him and also bring in a talented young wide attacker then I don't think many would complain about that. Werner and upcoming young talent is much better than Gil and Solomon.

I think the upcoming young talent would have to be something special though. Because if he’s not ready we’re going to have most of the same issues we have now in that area of the pitch, unless maybe Johnson goes up a level.

I think fans have been willing to overlook some of the team’s shortcomings this season, but will be a lot less forgiving next season.