Player Watch: Victor Wanyama

[THOWIG]

Looking at Southampton's defensive record the last couple of years, he's got to be one of the best defensive midfielder in the PL though?

Who offers nothing going forward.

 

[danielneeds]

Who offers nothing going forward.

Does it matter too much though? Give the ball to Dembele is all he has to do. I think he's a better passer than that though anyway. But he knows his limitations, I'm OK with that.

I don't understand why people want to mess with the balance of the side that did so well last season. If we could find someone who covers the defence as well as Dier has done, but offers deep playmaking as well, of course I'd be up for it. But they are rare as hell, and will end up at clubs that play higher wages than we do.

 

[stewartd]

Who knows more about his abilities and limitations us or Poch?
If Poch thinks he can do the job that he needs him for then that's that. He knows him far better then us amateur stat followers and "experts" on here
End of.

 

[Shanks]

The term is 'defensive' midfielder.

Not 'offensive' midfielder.

The way we break up play we need another 'Dier' type player, you know, because he gets 17 bookings a game.

 

[spursfan77]

I think he'd be a good signing.

 

[Nigel Spinal]

Who knows more about his abilities and limitations us or Poch?
If Poch thinks he can do the job that he needs him for then that's that. He knows him far better then us amateur stat followers and "experts" on here
End of.

Or Levy just smells an end of contract bargain bin player who we can sell-on for a profit in 12 months' time.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

We need more than one midfielder.

And as we don't currently have one with Wanyama's skill set, he'd be a useful addition to the squad at the right price.

We do also need a player who can get the ball forwards more effectively though.

Dier has Wanyama's skill set. Why do we need to acquire more than one ? We have Dier, Dembele, Bentaleb, Mason, Onomah, Winks.

If we are going to buy one, I'd want him to be damn good, not just offer potential (we have that) or one dimensional (we have that) or the same as what we already have.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Looking at Southampton's defensive record the last couple of years, he's got to be one of the best defensive midfielders in the PL though?

But ours was even better, we have "defensive" covered, if we are to progress we need to improve and to improve we need a player who does defensive and a bit of football as well.

 

[allatsea]

Who offers nothing going forward.

So what ? His job is to protect the defense.

 

[Nigel Spinal]

So what ? His job is to protect the defense.

It screws up our attack if a defensive player can't transition satisfactorily. That's how teams become turgid.

 

[Japhet]

I for one won't be in favour of signing Wanyama, I don't believe he is actually all that good. Theres been lot of hype has been said about him but watching him a few times last season I am not taken in by it. Besides that Dier is our holding midfield player who has been outstanding this season and Wanyama is no upgrade on him. We should concentrate on buying a back up striker for Harry, I would have thought that would be our main transfer priority this summer.

That would make perfect sense..........if we were only allowed to buy 1 player.

 

[danielneeds]

But ours was even better, we have "defensive" covered, if we are to progress we need to improve and to improve we need a player who does defensive and a bit of football as well.

As I said, if we could find a player who can do everything Dier did this season protecting the defence, but also play-make from deep, I'd be up for it, but I don't see any viable options. Look at our goal difference this year with Dier learning the role, arguably Wanyama is more adept at the position. We need another player who can drop in with the centre backs if we're going to be competitive in the league and CL. Also for tightening up games in the final 20 mins too - something that if we had possessed could have seen us winning the league this year.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

As I said, if we could find a player who can do everything Dier did this season protecting the defence, but also play-make from deep, I'd be up for it, but I don't see any viable options. Look at our goal difference this year with Dier learning the role, arguably Wanyama is more adept at the position. We need another player who can drop in with the centre backs if we're going to be competitive in the league and CL. Also for tightening up games in the final 20 mins too - something that if we had possessed could have seen us winning the league this year.

I think Wanyama is a very limited footballer. I honestly don't think Wanyama is more adept at the role Dier plays now. I think Southampton play a very disciplined and conservative brand of football.

If we can't find a player who is better - or who offers something different - to what we have in the group we have now, I really don't see the point of the signing - and I don't think Wanyama is better at what he does than Dier, and that was Dier's first go at it and we play a much more expansive brand of football.

I know I bang on about promoting from within, but I really don't think we need to spend money on a player with Wanyama's limitations. Even if you don't think any of the current first team squad are able to do that "defensive" protector, one dimensional thing, we have a kid called Lesniak - a kind of 20yo Slovakian Kante - who I think could actually be ready to step in on occasion and play that busy **** role. He's not a big unit like Dier or Wanyama, but he's incredibly tenacious, very dynamic, more comfortable on the ball than Dier in tight spaces, and he's been playing that role for the U21's for a couple of years now and last time I watched them play they had him dropping between the CB's - something I made a point of noting (whether this is part of Poch's influence I'm not sure).

Look at the job (20yo) Weigle is doing at Dortmund in Gundogan's absence.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

I think Wanyama is a very limited footballer. I honestly don't think Wanyama is more adept at the role Dier plays now. I think Southampton play a very disciplined and conservative brand of football.

If we can't find a player who is better - or who offers something different - to what we have in the group we have now, I really don't see the point of the signing - and I don't think Wanyama is better at what he does than Dier, and that was Dier's first go at it and we play a much more expansive brand of football.

I know I bang on about promoting from within, but I really don't think we need to spend money on a player with Wanyama's limitations. Even if you don't think any of the current first team squad are able to do that "defensive" protector, one dimensional thing, we have a kid called Lesniak - a kind of 20yo Slovakian Kante - who I think could actually be ready to step in on occasion and play that busy **** role. He's not a big unit like Dier or Wanyama, but he's incredibly tenacious, very dynamic, more comfortable on the ball than Dier in tight spaces, and he's been playing that role for the U21's for a couple of years now and last time I watched them play they had him dropping between the CB's - something I made a point of noting (whether this is part of Poch's influence I'm not sure).

Look at the job (20yo) Weigle is doing at Dortmund in Gundogan's absence.

I don't think Southampton's current brand of football is relevant. Wanyama started for Southampton under Pochettino so he clearly could play in our system.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I don't think Southampton's current brand of football is relevant. Wanyama started for Southampton under Pochettino so he clearly could play in our system.

I don't think Pochettino's Southampton with Wanyama were as defensively disciplined or frugal as Koeman's Southampton. I don't think Wanyama was as effective for Pochettino as he is in a much more conservative and less expansive system.

We already have the meanest defence in the league, we don't need another defender to play in CM, we need to evolve and we will only do that if add an extra ingredient, a player who can do more than just be a third CB when we need to manage out games.

I think there are games/phases when Dier's limitations are exposed, so why would we want a player who brings very little above what Dier does? The same limitations will be exposed, as they were in Pochettino's Southampton (who also coughed up more points from winning positions than any other team I believe).

If we are going to buy/acquire a CM then lets either aim to improve on what we have or use what have already. Not add what we already have.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Dier has Wanyama's skill set. Why do we need to acquire more than one ? We have Dier, Dembele, Bentaleb, Mason, Onomah, Winks.

If we are going to buy one, I'd want him to be damn good, not just offer potential (we have that) or one dimensional (we have that) or the same as what we already have.

We cannot rely on Dier to do that job all season (we saw him starting to flag at the end of this season just gone) and in addition there may be games where we would want to play with two DMs, or certainly go to two DMs during a game. I don't think there's anyone in that list you've provided who can do what Dier does, so having another option there would be excellent for the squad.

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

I know you want two double pivot players at the base of the midfield, but I really think we're going to struggle to find a player that can do they defensive work we need to play our high fullback game, and has the passing skillset you'd want.

I can't believe I'm gonna say this, but I fully expect a raping that A&C would be proud of ..

If Poch is intent on continuing with deploying the fullbacks so they can get forward at every opportunity, he MUST insist Walker does double sessions working on his delivery, or seriously contemplate bringing in someone who can cross more than their fingers. If only Trippier had a bit more pace!

 

[Riandor]

If we are going to buy/acquire a CM then lets either aim to improve on what we have or use what have already. Not add what we already have.

Perhaps Poch doesn't believe he can trust Mason or Bentaleb to do that role as he sees it?
If we sold both for example, then Wanyama on last year of contract could be a decent purchase. He might not necessarily set your world alight, but he would add good strength in depth should Poch believe he is more reliable than either of the two I mentioned.

Opens up a squad place for another youth player too.

Just a thought.

 

[danielneeds]

I don't think Pochettino's Southampton with Wanyama were as defensively disciplined or frugal as Koeman's Southampton. I don't think Wanyama was as effective for Pochettino as he is in a much more conservative and less expansive system.

People made exactly the same accusation about Alderweireld last summer. Southampton play more defensive, he'll look only average when he gets here, and it's rubbish.

We already have the meanest defence in the league, we don't need another defender to play in CM, we need to evolve and we will only do that if add an extra ingredient, a player who can do more than just be a third CB when we need to manage out games.

Yes, we had the meanest defence in the league, but it arguably could have been even tighter if - Dier had not been running on empty at the end, we had an experienced powerful player to bring on to help close out tight games. Also Wanyama would be a powerful presence at defensive set-pieces - another weakness which arguably cost us some vital points last year.

I think there are games/phases when Dier's limitations are exposed, so why would we want a player who brings very little above what Dier does? The same limitations will be exposed, as they were in Pochettino's Southampton (who also coughed up more points from winning positions than any other team I believe)..

Again this is a philosophical difference. Essentially, for me last year, with the ball we played 3-4-3, and we have two very good ball playing centrebacks. If the holding player was gifted on the ball great, but I don't see a natural player who can do this that is attainable, and as I said earlier in the thread some of the great defensive shields of all time were limited players, who knew their jobs. Win the ball, give the ball to your ball players.

If we are going to buy/acquire a CM then lets either aim to improve on what we have or use what have already. Not add what we already have.

We need two like for like players, especially in midfield, to slot into each position, to handle what's coming next season, and succeed on multiple fronts. The failure to have this last season cost us in Dortmund - badly, and didn't help with the tough end to the season.

 

[Monkey boy]

People made exactly the same accusation about Alderweireld last summer. Southampton play more defensive, he'll look only average when he gets here, and it's rubbish.


Yes, we had the meanest defence in the league, but it arguably could have been even tighter if - Dier had not been running on empty at the end, we had an experienced powerful player to bring on to help close out tight games. Also Wanyama would be a powerful presence at defensive set-pieces - another weakness which arguably cost us some vital points last year.


Again this is a philosophical difference. Essentially, for me last year, with the ball we played 3-4-3, and we have two very good ball playing centrebacks. If the holding player was gifted on the ball great, but I don't see a natural player who can do this that is attainable, and as I said earlier in the thread some of the great defensive shields of all time were limited players, who knew their jobs. Win the ball, give the ball to your ball players.


We need two like for like players, especially in midfield, to slot into each position, to handle what's coming next season, and succeed on multiple fronts. The failure to have this last season cost us in Dortmund - badly, and didn't help with the tough end to the season.

Ha I love it when BC gets completely owned