Poch: In or Out? - You CAN change your vote

[SheffieldAndy]

You can't really compare the circumstances. Mourinho was sacked by a fickle club after being left with a big weakness in defence, on top of an already crap defence. For some reason, Woodward didn't want to fix any of the problems they have subsequently done for Solskjaer.

Beyond this, he (like LVG) is a top manager who won things for the club. Pochettino hasn't, which leads people (myself included) to wonder if this decline is the result of players losing faith in him. He has been suggesting (since the problems began) that he would leave if he won something - that should be the opposite of the situation.

What annoys me more than anything is the quality in our squad, and yet in these 5 years we've still got nothing in the cabinet. Roberto Martinez won the FA Cup with Wigan, Redknapp with Portsmouth.. even Di Matteo won it for Chelsea despite being far from the best manager and having lots of weaknesses in that squad. With the League Cup, you have Alex McLeish (Birmingham), Michael Laudrup (Swansea), Steve McClaren with Middlesbrough...Kenny Dalglish with a crap liverpool side... then Juande Ramos. None of those were quality managers with league challenging sides.

I'm simply not accepting that we shouldn't be winning something in these peak Harry Kane years. Soon enough, he'll be wondering, too (if he isn't already). That's why people are warm to the idea of Mourinho - because he wins trophies, regardless of the task. Take into account that he'd have less pressure here than Man Utd, he wouldn't be living in a hotel, and seems to want redemption, it's crazy to think we should pass on him if we end up looking and he is keen.

Surely it’s exactly comparable? People want Poch sacked, he also has a glaring hole in defence compounded by everyone thinking the rest of the defence don’t want to play for him (as was the case at Utd because of Mourinho’s comments, team selections and generally Mourinho-ness) We have had some of our best seasons in recent memory with the current coach, whereas Man Utd have been dire. Does that not make us more fickle because of a bad 10 months interspaced with reaching the pinnacle of club competition in the meantime?

I get that you like Mourinho for the role, I’m just trying to temper the illusion some have that he’ll definitely be the second coming of the messiah.

And I’m going to sum up the rest of you post in one question then, as it’s all basically saying the same thing.
Because you seem totally focused on silverware, would you be happy with the football now and Poch if we had won a trophy in his tenure?

 

[Wearegoingtowintheleague]

On the contrary - Mourinho seemed to know exactly what their issues were; a terrible old defence. So much so that the formations had to compensate for that.

I wouldn't expect to get much credibility for trying to make out like one of (if not, the) most successful football manager of modern times is somehow not good at what he does.

United have been turd since SAF's last season, and the denial of that from club and fans has seen them tear through a vast array of otherwise reputable managers who, despite that, seem to have won trophies.

Mourinho also got to spend £360 million during his time at Man Utd.

if he can't fix his issues with that kind of budget, I can't see how he'd cope at Spurs with a tenth of that, if he's lucky.

 

[jamesinashby]

If Levy/ENIC can come up with money for transfers and a wage structure good enough to keep and entice quality players in, I say keep. If they don't, I suspect he will take the decision to leave.
COYS

 

[Tott66]

Never truly backed by the owners at crucial times
Makes the odd silly comment true
But has done some great work for the club
Deserves time to turn it around and our respect
I’m backing Poch to stay and fight

 

[John48]

I think he's gone with the diamond because he thinks it's what fits best with the players we have in the squad & to be fair for 40mins or so it worked well. In the 2nd half though it went too pieces & maybe that was because the players aren't fit enough to play it for 90mins.

I hope on Sat he shows he has some ideas on how to improve our 90min performance & gets the right reaction from the players.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I think he's gone with the diamond because he thinks it's what fits best with the players we have in the squad & to be fair for 40mins or so it worked well. In the 2nd half though it went too pieces & maybe that was because the players aren't fit enough to play it for 90mins.

I hope on Sat he shows he has some ideas on how to improve our 90min performance & gets the right reaction from the players.

Or hopefully he just stops playing the fucking diamond.

 

[VegasII]

Any more of this diamond shite and he'll plying his managerial trade at Astra fucking goo goo.

 

[sausage]

Surely it’s exactly comparable? People want Poch sacked, he also has a glaring hole in defence compounded by everyone thinking the rest of the defence don’t want to play for him

That's crazy levels of apologism - you're likening his tactic shortcomings to actually not having players

(as was the case at Utd because of Mourinho’s comments, team selections and generally Mourinho-ness) We have had some of our best seasons in recent memory with the current coach, whereas Man Utd have been dire. Does that not make us more fickle because of a bad 10 months interspaced with reaching the pinnacle of club competition in the meantime?

Dire? I'll take dire if it involves winning 3 cups and a PL runner up place.

I get that you like Mourinho for the role, I’m just trying to temper the illusion some have that he’ll definitely be the second coming of the messiah.

And I’m going to sum up the rest of you post in one question then, as it’s all basically saying the same thing.
Because you seem totally focused on silverware, would you be happy with the football now and Poch if we had won a trophy in his tenure?

No one is saying that Mourinho is the second coming - they're all basically pointing out that he is an elite manager who manages to win trophies with worse squads that we have. The media and some fans are obsessed with saying that Poch has "taken this team as far as it can go", which is the pinnacle of nonsense. If that's the case, let him go and let someone else who is highly likely to take the team further to do so.

I'm not "totally focused on silverware", but all the anti-Levy lot are bashing ENIC for the lack of trophies. You can't selectively apply the point. Would Poch be having a reprieve if he'd won a trophy? Of course. Not just from us, but I bet from the players too.

 

[Bulletspur]

If that is what you believe watching that last ten minutes then you give the coach more influence and credit than due. Half the players gave up! Can you imagine Mackay Mullery Mabbut Perryman King or even Judas allowing that? The problem was on the field...we had no leader to even limit the damage. If we did those Bayern players would have been upended, blocked or pulled back. We have no captain figure on the field

Am I missing something here? You are agreeing with me by arguing my case.

 

[SheffieldAndy]

That's crazy levels of apologism - you're likening his tactic shortcomings to actually not having players



Dire? I'll take dire if it involves winning 3 cups and a PL runner up place.




No one is saying that Mourinho is the second coming - they're all basically pointing out that he is an elite manager who manages to win trophies with worse squads that we have. The media and some fans are obsessed with saying that Poch has "taken this team as far as it can go", which is the pinnacle of nonsense. If that's the case, let him go and let someone else who is highly likely to take the team further to do so.

I'm not "totally focused on silverware", but all the anti-Levy lot are bashing ENIC for the lack of trophies. You can't selectively apply the point. Would Poch be having a reprieve if he'd won a trophy? Of course. Not just from us, but I bet from the players too.

I’m absolutely not mentioning tactical shortcomings.
Are you saying Man Utd couldn’t field a full defence? Or that some of the players in the defensive positions were not the standard they should be? If it’s the later, then look again at our defence (specifically fullbacks) before calling my point apologist.

I thought that would be the case. And it’s a bit of a stretch to call the Community Shield a cup. A match he was in remember, because the ‘worse squad than ours’ won the FA cup the year before he joined.
He then got a chance the following season to fill these glaring holes he had, and similarly to us, won nothing after that, then he got sacked after a poor start to a season (kinda like where we are now). People pining for Mourinho seems more to me of a ‘win something, anything please, above all else’ mentality and sod the future. We just need a cup of any sort to be happy.

How do you envisage Mourinho with a limited budget taking the team further? And what do you class as further? A cup?
That is a genuine question.

I’m not anti Levy or anti Poch, I’m not selectively applying anything, I just wanted to know your stance on my question.
What you’re said, is that a reprieve is only really granted with silverware. So if we’d been awful for three seasons, but won a League cup say, last year, he should get much more leeway than exceeding most of our expectations in the league and getting us to a Champions League final?

 

[king26]

Mourinho also got to spend £360 million during his time at Man Utd.

if he can't fix his issues with that kind of budget, I can't see how he'd cope at Spurs with a tenth of that, if he's lucky.

mourinho

 

[spursgirls]

Season has just started, and our whole team already look completely knackered

I think that's a mental thing rather than physical tbh.

 

[The Opinionated Lurker]

Levy spends nothing, rightfully get rinsed by the fans. Levy switches up and for once acquires all Poch’s targets, and still gets rinsed by the fans. It’s a thankless job, manager gets all the credit when it goes right and he gets all the blame when it goes wrong.

 

[rez9000]

As of 8:30am today, with 691 votes cast, Poch still retains the confidence of 62.1% of SC voters, with 37.9% no longer convinced he is the man they want at the reins.

The margin has increased slightly to 25.8%

 

[Primativ]

As of 8:30am today, with 691 votes cast, Poch still retains the confidence of 62.1% of SC voters, with 37.9% no longer convinced he is the man they want at the reins.

The margin has increased slightly to 25.8%

Quite a shocking turn of events really. I never dreamed we’d be in this position a year ago but the downturn in results and performances has been quite horrific. If you’d done this poll a year ago it would have been 99% to stay.

 

[rez9000]

Quite a shocking turn of events really. I never dreamed we’d be in this position a year ago but the downturn in results and performances has been quite horrific. If you’d done this poll a year ago it would have been 99% to stay.

Indeed!

 

[DEFchenkOE]

I can't unsee us conceding 7 goals with that diamond. If we roll it out on Saturday I'm in the Poch out camp as I'll believe he's firmly lost it.

 

[nailsy]

I’m absolutely not mentioning tactical shortcomings.
Are you saying Man Utd couldn’t field a full defence? Or that some of the players in the defensive positions were not the standard they should be? If it’s the later, then look again at our defence (specifically fullbacks) before calling my point apologist.

I thought that would be the case. And it’s a bit of a stretch to call the Community Shield a cup. A match he was in remember, because the ‘worse squad than ours’ won the FA cup the year before he joined.
He then got a chance the following season to fill these glaring holes he had, and similarly to us, won nothing after that, then he got sacked after a poor start to a season (kinda like where we are now). People pining for Mourinho seems more to me of a ‘win something, anything please, above all else’ mentality and sod the future. We just need a cup of any sort to be happy.

How do you envisage Mourinho with a limited budget taking the team further? And what do you class as further? A cup?
That is a genuine question.

I’m not anti Levy or anti Poch, I’m not selectively applying anything, I just wanted to know your stance on my question.
What you’re said, is that a reprieve is only really granted with silverware. So if we’d been awful for three seasons, but won a League cup say, last year, he should get much more leeway than exceeding most of our expectations in the league and getting us to a Champions League final?

I think Mourinho had a back four of Valencia, Smalling, Jones and Young for most of the season that Utd finished second. Decent enough players, but no better than what we've got now. I'm not one of the people calling for Mourinho, but I can see why some people want him.

 

[SheffieldAndy]

I think Mourinho had a back four of Valencia, Smalling, Jones and Young for most of the season that Utd finished second. Decent enough players, but no better than what we've got now. I'm not one of the people calling for Mourinho, but I can see why some people want him.

That’s exactly the point I’m making.

The post I was replying to was referencing Poch’s tactical ineptitude vs Mourinho’s not having the defensive players. I was just trying to show that if he apparently didn’t have the defensive players, by the same token, neither do we.

 

[TheCheeseRoom]

As of 8:30am today, with 691 votes cast, Poch still retains the confidence of 62.1% of SC voters, with 37.9% no longer convinced he is the man they want at the reins.

The margin has increased slightly to 25.8%

I suspect had the poll been opened yesterday morning rather than within 30 minutes of the defeat that we'd be sitting closer to 70% stay.

I think it's time for a second referendum.