Poch is to in-game management as...

[TwanYid]

...Hugo is to distribution.

I love the guy- and there's NO ONE I'd rather have as manager- but fuck me if he isn't one of the worst in-game coaches I've ever seen. It's almost as if I would rather he did everything he does for our team- and I mean everything- but then, as soon as we emerge from the tunnel on match day, some random SC'er would take the reigns for the 90. Even his occasionally head-scratching lineups don't bother me- it's his substitutions and tactics (or lack thereof). When the game is crying out for something he often does the opposite; high line vs. a lower-level squad- to close out a 1-0 game- particularly after our RB got torched repeatedly? No Winks? Wtf?

Look, this is not an anti-Poch thread; we are lucky to have the guy. I love him. But Holy Jesus this has got to stop...I swear some on here know more IN GAME than him- and I actually mean that. Yes there are things we don't know- injuries, internal politics, moods, disputes, etc.- but sorry, some of the moves he pulls (or doesn't pull) are just mystifying. It's like Ledley's knees, Hugo's passes, Harry's gob...whenever someone does well for us they always have some fatal flaw...

I'm so fucking down about today I feel literally physically sick. Thanks for being here people- at least I know I'm not alone.

 

[riggi]

 

[SpunkyBackpack]

 

[ginolaboy]

Don't worry, we'll stuff Swansea!

 

[michaelden]

I sort of agree here. Poch waits too long to make a change. He often makes a random change, like Son for Sissoko yesterday. And often doesn't use all his subs.

Yes Son needed to go yesterday but Momo tried to play centrally which left Trippier even more exposed. A more disciplined player was needed.

Dier was shocking 1st half and while improved in the 2nd, we didn't need him and Dembele covering. Winks should've come on at the hour.

Kane was having no fun in his own against a back 5 and a 6th man marking him. Maybe through on Janssen play 2 up top and force more space.

I know Poch used 3subs yesterday but all late and the last a fucking token gesture. 2 minutes, go get your shoes dirty buddy. Waste in my eyes

 

[guiltyparty]

They made a good point on Mourinho yesterday, he always waits for the other manager to change things. Then reacts. And something like 75% of their goals have come after he makes a sub

I'm amazed Poch still brought Sanchez on. That all didn't go to plan at all did it?

 

[Archibald Leitch]

I watched Sissoko and Winks warm up for 25 minutes. It was like Poch forgot he had sent them up the touchline. They were knackered by the time they were actually called upon.

 

[Gilzeanking]

Dier was shocking 1st half and while improved in the 2nd, we didn't need him and Dembele covering. Winks should've come on at the hour.

We are so stuck in Poch's routines that we've started thinking like him . What is so special about 60 mins that means subs can't be made til then ? Son was clearly not right/contributing from the off . Hook him at HT why not . Wanyama in game vs Chelsea too.

I agree with the OP , in game stuff seems very rigid and often to do with internal player politics rather than the actual game situation . Luv Poch but this is a weakness .

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

I can't believe we've fluked our way to two fantastic seasons with the shitty way he 'manages' games.

When we win it's never his in game management is excellent and if that's the case (and it is) then this is all boo hoo we never won rubbish based on nothing more than he didn't do what you would have done or wanted him to do which, by the way, there's no guarantee would have made any difference either.

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

Is it less about Poch but more about the lack of quality options available to him on the bench that he doesn't believe they will have a positive impact on the game.

We have a solid a solid 1 to 11 but lack any game changing sub.

 

[Gilzeanking]

I can't believe we've fluked our way to two fantastic seasons with the shitty way he 'manages' games.

When we win it's never his in game management is excellent and if that's the case (and it is) then this is all boo hoo we never won rubbish based on nothing more than he didn't do what you would have done or wanted him to do which, by the way, there's no guarantee would have made any difference either.

In fairness there have been concerns over Poch's in game management after Spurs wins by many posters. Inevitably these are buried under the 'Just enjoy the win ffs ' mob .

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

In fairness there has been concerns over Poch's in game management after Spurs wins by many posters. Inevitably these are buried under the 'Just enjoy the win ffs ' mob .

I can't say i've ever seen that, if its true then that astonishes me and a couple of posters spring to mind as to who that might be

 

[jurgen]

Seemed to me that those substitutions had a touch of the 'I don't have any game changers, sign some f***ing players' vibe to them. He wouldn't have been the first Spurs manager to do this in the first few games of a new year following a successful season. Wonder why?

 

[slartibartfast]

Kind of agree but I think EVERY manager makes decisions that leave the fans thinking wtf.
Klopp, definitely.
Pep, definitely definitely.
Wenger, you dont know what you're doing lol.
Etc etc.
As op said there are factors we dont know about but yesterday had me scratching my head.
I was sat pitch level by corner flag near Burnley fans so didnt have the best overall view and have yet to see highlights but a few things baffled me.
I thought Son was having a good game on the left. He was an outlet for Davies, caused the defence problems and was seeing a lot of the ball. Trippier was getting up the rw and seemed fine to me. Then Son was moved to rw, I dont know why, and it wasn't as good imo.
We were still on top possession wise and dominating but it was slower build up (This is something else we need to work on, our forward play is too slow allowing opposition to get 11 men behind the ball.) There was no outlet on the left and Trippier wasn't getting forward as much. Son is not better on the right. Davies doesn't and cannot get up and down like Rose and Trippier is no Walker as exposed yesterday.
Moving him to the right as far as I could see was pointless but as I said there may have been a reason I'm not aware of.
Then the subs. Omg I shat as soon as Sissoko came on. The guy just doesn't run back. Why take off Son who is ALWAYS going to cause more problems than Sissoko. It's not like Sissoko is more defensively minded because he simply isnt. A bigger lump yes but thats about it.
The 2nd sub I couldn't understand either. Ok Eriksen wasn't at his best but he's still capable of pulling a goal from nowhere (and wtf was with Kane taking freekick?) Son Alli Eriksen are going to keep Burnley camped in their own half, Sissoko Alli Winks do not.
Last sub was a stinker. There's no room in football for sentiment (Kane not scored in Aug so I'll take fk. No you fkin wont Harry) and thats what that sub was imo. 'We've got to get our new signing on the pitch to show the fans'. Ok fine but thanks to those previous 2 subs we now need a goal but you STILL take of Dembele and put on a DEFENDER???? WTF? It's like we'd given up before the final whistle.
Despite those (imo) mistakes I think the real problem is we still don't have a proper leader on the pitch to kick people up the arse and tell them to pull their socks up.
Trippier was MIA down the left about 3 or 4 times before the goal. The Burnley winger was in fkin acres. I would like to think players can think for themselves and that after the 2nd, 3rd, maybe the 4th time of something like that happening they would have the brains to think 'ooh that wasn't very clever. I'm meant to be the rb. I better get over there.' but that doesn't seem to be the case. I can't believe Toby Verts or Lloris, somebody, didn't shout at him ffs will you do your fkin job and stop them crossing balls in down that wing. If you played like that in a weekend pub team you'd be subbed. Instead we subbed 3 of our most attacking players allowing Burnley to finally get out of their half.
Was tactical suicide imo.
Proper pissed off.
Gonna be a looooong season playing at that lifeless toilet bowl.

 

[mpickard2087]

I'd say the problem isn't subs, it's more the approach that we take in a lot of games - won, lose, or draw.

If we're a goal or two up at the hour mark, we usually see us allow the game to open up. We lose our compactness and so this allows the opposition a sniff at getting back into it, whilst giving us more chances at the other end. Now most of the time it wont matter, we'll still win the game pretty comfortably, maybe even add to our tally, the odd game though eventually you will get the opposition hitting back, seemingly out of very little, and everyone going home thinking 'wtf happened there?'

More rarely are we able to just 'bore' our way to victory in the last quarter of games. Just keep the ball, even if the opposition is now chasing it down frantically for a bit, and strangle the life out of them till they give up. I don't know whether Poch just doesn't like this, whether its our weakness against teams who press mean we get uncomfortable when the opposition actually come out and start to show a bit more urgency in winning the ball back, a bit of both, or whatever. This isn't helped when certain players, Dembele being a main one, tend to rapidly go out of the later stages of games.

And I think sometimes we need a clearer idea of what we're doing in the latter stages. If our pressing has dropped off as we tire, get in behind the ball and be compact. Instead we haven't got that compactness and shape, and we're still trying to play a high line... And then you get what we often see, with long straight balls starting to cause us trouble, as the opposition has more time on the ball to drop it over our defence from better positions.

That's not to say Poch doesn't sometimes have good days with what he chooses to change during a game, but for me there is a pattern that occurs. Win, lose or draw, I think these aspects could be better managed and have said such opinion since Poch took over (often to much scorn in ratings threads etc) , that's without even looking at what subs we make.

 

[antigooner]

It was just the dying minutes! All we had to do was keep possession! I can't believe we blew it!

 

[ljinko888]

Poch's use of subs is valid criticism.

Last season we had plenty of games where with 30 mins to go we're leading by 3-4 goals.

Those were the perfect chances to give Janssen, Onomah and N'Koudou who were always on the bench but rarely played. See what they're about.

Instead Poch waits and waits until the late stages whereby there's barely any time to do anything. These players aren't trusted when we're winning so Poch is not going to turn to them when we're down. Waste of time really.

 

[riggi]

In fairness there have been concerns over Poch's in game management after Spurs wins by many posters. Inevitably these are buried under the 'Just enjoy the win ffs ' mob .

Agreed. I've read those concerns on here for the past 3 seasons.

 

[michaelden]

I can't believe we've fluked our way to two fantastic seasons with the shitty way he 'manages' games.

When we win it's never his in game management is excellent and if that's the case (and it is) then this is all boo hoo we never won rubbish based on nothing more than he didn't do what you would have done or wanted him to do which, by the way, there's no guarantee would have made any difference either.

BSoMP

 

[Spurs 1961]

So I am conflicted here. We often start the second half extremely well looking like a different side to the first half. However we frequently start a game slowly as though we have just woken up. Now is this under instruction from Poch? Is the plan to start slow, preserve energy and wind up to the last ten minutes? Or is it something else?

For me the players don't seem to manage the game very well. We go for another goal in the last few minutes instead of tightening the game when one goal up at the end. We start slowly as mentioned and seem to need Poch to read the riot act at half-time.

So it is the in game management of Poch or the players inability to adapt to changes game circumstances? If it's the players is that still the fault of the manager for not preparing them well enough?