Pochettino's 'get out of jail free' card?

[Misfit]

I think the fans do have a massive part to play. If we're patient, should we face a sluggish start to the season that lasts into October, and don't start the grumblings then maybe Levy & Co's hair-trigger wont be pulled. They've shown a staggering lack of gumption several times down the yrs. Arse-covering is above all else it seems so we need to chill and not give them any ideas.

 

[Adam456]

I think the fans do have a massive part to play. If we're patient, should we face a sluggish start to the season that lasts into October, and don't start the grumblings then maybe Levy & Co's hair-trigger wont be pulled. They've shown a staggering lack of gumption several times down the yrs. Arse-covering is above all else it seems so we need to chill and not give them any ideas.

I think we are paying well enough and will start to pick up points but if we don't then THIS ^^

 

[kungfugrip]

Jol and Ramos were left short after summer windows and didn't get any sympathy.

Don't think Jol was left short at all. We finished 5th and then in that summer we spent £36m on Kaboul, Bale and Bent. Any outgoing players were minor players. The team was strengthened that summer. Jol was not left short.

 

[southlondonyiddo]

The only one getting out of jail is DL. Poch will go the same way as all the others sooner or later

 

[southlondonyiddo]

Don't think Jol was left short at all. We finished 5th and then in that summer we spent £36m on Kaboul, Bale and Bent. Any outgoing players were minor players. The team was strengthened that summer. Jol was not left short.

Cant remember the transfers but Bent was bought to replace Berbs, hardly like for like

Jol was a dead man walking by the end of that summer. At the start of that summer supporters were so excited about the future. By the end of the summer and after DL had 'got involved' again it was back to the normal transition thoughts!

 

[kungfugrip]

Cant remember the transfers but Bent was bought to replace Berbs, hardly like for like

Jol was a dead man walking by the end of that summer. At the start of that summer supporters were so excited about the future. By the end of the summer and after DL had 'got involved' again it was back to the normal transition thoughts!

No, Bent was bought to add strength in depth up front (imagine that lol!) and to complement Berba and Keane. Berbatov was sold the following year buddy.

 

[eddiev14]

Don't think Jol was left short at all. We finished 5th and then in that summer we spent £36m on Kaboul, Bale and Bent. Any outgoing players were minor players. The team was strengthened that summer. Jol was not left short.

At centre-back he was.

He wanted Distin, who was cheap and very experienced.

He was given a 21 year old Kaboul, who wasn't even close to being ready for the first team.

Distin went to Pompey for £2m. We signed Darren Bent for £16m.

Spursy.

 

[eddiev14]

Cant remember the transfers but Bent was bought to replace Berbs, hardly like for like

Jol was a dead man walking by the end of that summer. At the start of that summer supporters were so excited about the future. By the end of the summer and after DL had 'got involved' again it was back to the normal transition thoughts!

Berba left in 2008, not 2007.

When we signed Bent (in summer 2007) we had Berba, Keane and Defoe.

It was a totally needless piece of business and became very obvious that Jol had pressure on him to play 3 up front, when he really did not want to.

 

[southlondonyiddo]

No, Bent was bought to add strength in depth up front (imagine that lol!) and to complement Berba and Keane. Berbatov was sold the following year buddy.

If you believe that you probably believed in WMD

 

[southlondonyiddo]

Berba left in 2008, not 2007.

When we signed Bent (in summer 2007) we had Berba, Keane and Defoe.

It was a totally needless piece of business and became very obvious that Jol had pressure on him to play 3 up front, when he really did not want to.

As i said Bent was bought to replace Berbs. I know he went the following season. Buying Bent then had DL all over it. Berbs leaving was always on the cards. It was Levy doing his usual thing

We certainly didnt spend 16m back then for someone to warm the bench for the next 4 years!!!!

 

[Xeeleeyid]

Still don't think Jol was left short. There was heavy investment in some of the most promising players in Europe at the time in Bale, Kaboul, Kevin-Prince Boateng and Darren Bent. We also brought in Chris Gunter and Danny Rose as longer term punts. Strengthened a 5th placed squad that hadn't lost anyone with top young talent in every position but they were all young enough not to demand to start straight away and so upset the teams balance. Our net spend that summer was amongst the highest in the division.

Bale was the top young talent in England at the time, Bent was the top English goal scorer, Boateng had just won the Bundesliga top young player award and Kaboul was very highly rated.

It was the equivalent of signing Berahino or Kane, Julian Draxler, Luke Shaw and whoever the best young centre back in ligue 1 was this summer.

 

[John48]

A supposedly simple question - has the botched ending to the transfer window given Pochettino more leeway with both the fans and Levy this season?

I say 'supposedly' because the more I think about it, the less obvious and simple it seems.

This is not an anti-Pochettino thread. Nor is it particularly anti-Levy. The main argument is that Pochettino clearly targeted at least a striker and a central midfielder for this window. Throughout the summer we have heard how we have been chasing Berahino and a DM. Pochettino made Schneiderlin his number one target last summer as well, so it's an area he obviously wants to strengthen with a 'starting 11' quality player.

The striker situation is apparent to all of us. Yes we have some square pegs available to force into the round hole if Kane is injured or needs resting, but I'd be very surprised if Pochettino is happy with the lack of options up front.

So given the paper-thin strength of key areas of the squad, and the impression that important transfers failed to materialise, will Pochettino be shown some sympathy from the fans if we struggle? Equally, will Levy be less reluctant to swing the axe considering he's played a big part in shackling this team?

Maybe you think a good manager should be able to work with what they have? Maybe the lack of a striker and DM are not enough to cover up other deficiencies in the team, and should not be used as an excuse? Perhaps you feel any form of success Pochettino achieves this season should be considered twice as good due to Levy letting him down in the transfer market?

I know some will say that the lack of a striker and a DM are really not that big a deal. Personally I think it will have all sorts of issues that will cause problems. For example, Pochettino will have to play Kane a lot more than I might otherwise do. He also has less room to change things up if Kane has a significant drop of form. Playing Son, N'jie, or Chadli out of position prevents them from playing where they are deemed more effective, and could damage their confidence. The lack of a DM also puts a lot of pressure on our young CM's, and without an experienced head in the centre of the park and on the training ground they won't be learning many new tricks when it comes to dealing with pressure situations.

I'd like to think that I'd keep in mind that the window has painted Pochettino into a bit of a corner, but in truth I'll probably forget all about that the next time we lose or play badly. I suspect a lot of fans will be the same (if, of course, we actually have a poor season). I'd also like to think Levy would own up to his part in any poor performances, but is that really too likely?

In theory you'd be right, but this is a results business & if results don't improve I doubt whether Danny or the Board will have the patience to let the situation run & MP will find himself out of a job sooner rather than later, although I hope we never have to find out & he gets the results he needs.

 

[Good Doctor M]

We look solid this year. I know the results haven't been great, but there's too many fans looking at the results and drawing conclusions that don't really stack up.

We let in some daft goals, anyone can see that, but I've watched all our games so far this season and although we have been a little toothless up front, we're a better team than last year.

Once we get scoring, which we will, then I think we'll do very well. The clean sheet against Everton was more than deserved. I'm putting the Stoke game down as a freak, Leicester was an old fashioned scrappy English game that we should have nicked if not for a lack of concentration but they weren't going to roll over and have their bellies tickled at home. The Man Utd game could easily have been 1-0 the other way - we actually played a perfect game against them and if we'd been a little more clinical we would have got three points at Old Trafford - we matched them toe-to-toe.

Every game we've played we were the better team - bar Man Utd where there wasn't a lot between us and the Mancs. That's a big positive. We'll do well this season, the fans just have to get behind the team. They'll come good.

Oh and we're going to rip Sunderland to pieces.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

We look solid this year. I know the results haven't been great, but there's too many fans looking at the results and drawing conclusions that don't really stack up.

We let in some daft goals, anyone can see that, but I've watched all our games so far this season and although we have been a little toothless up front, we're a better team than last year.

Once we get scoring, which we will, then I think we'll do very well. The clean sheet against Everton was more than deserved. I'm putting the Stoke game down as a freak, Leicester was an old fashioned scrappy English game that we should have nicked if not for a lack of concentration but they weren't going to roll over and have their bellies tickled at home. The Man Utd game could easily have been 1-0 the other way - we actually played a perfect game against them and if we'd been a little more clinical we would have got three points at Old Trafford - we matched them toe-to-toe.

Every game we've played we were the better team - bar Man Utd where there wasn't a lot between us and the Mancs. That's a big positive. We'll do well this season, the fans just have to get behind the team. They'll come good.

Oh and we're going to rip Sunderland to pieces.

Finally some sense

 

[kungfugrip]

If you believe that you probably believed in WMD

Bent scored 25 goals in two seasons for us.......I would call that strength in depth up front, no matter what people thought of him.

 

[southlondonyiddo]

Bent scored 25 goals in two seasons for us.......I would call that strength in depth up front, no matter what people thought of him.

I am not debating how good or bad Darren Bent was. My point was that he was bought with a view to replacing Berbatov with in DL thinking making a big profit whilst not losing too many goals. Bent was on the bench over 20 times in his first season with us.

Just a long line in the story of selling our best players for a lot of money (31m) whilst trying to replace them with (hopefully) similar results!

No way did we pay 16m back then for a bench warmer

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

As i said Bent was bought to replace Berbs. I know he went the following season. Buying Bent then had DL all over it. Berbs leaving was always on the cards. It was Levy doing his usual thing

We certainly didnt spend 16m back then for someone to warm the bench for the next 4 years!!!!

We paid £16m because at that time West Ham who had the Icelandic money were also bidding £16m and we over paid to prevent going to the pikeys.

 

[Ossie85]

We look solid this year. I know the results haven't been great, but there's too many fans looking at the results and drawing conclusions that don't really stack up.

We let in some daft goals, anyone can see that, but I've watched all our games so far this season and although we have been a little toothless up front, we're a better team than last year.

Once we get scoring, which we will, then I think we'll do very well. The clean sheet against Everton was more than deserved. I'm putting the Stoke game down as a freak, Leicester was an old fashioned scrappy English game that we should have nicked if not for a lack of concentration but they weren't going to roll over and have their bellies tickled at home. The Man Utd game could easily have been 1-0 the other way - we actually played a perfect game against them and if we'd been a little more clinical we would have got three points at Old Trafford - we matched them toe-to-toe.

Every game we've played we were the better team - bar Man Utd where there wasn't a lot between us and the Mancs. That's a big positive. We'll do well this season, the fans just have to get behind the team. They'll come good.

Oh and we're going to rip Sunderland to pieces.

Even though we scored first, I think Leicester were better than us, and we didn't deserve to be ahead.
We have been looking more solid than last year because we have Toby and because we are playing more defensively and less risky.
But we are very dull, and too predictable imo. I understand we are building a team and things should get better as tactics and new players adapt, but right now we are not playing well. The team as a whole lacks hunger to win a game. To show where I'm going, look at an Atl Madrid match and you'll see every player on the pitch absolutely convinced of what they're doing. They WANT to win the game. When we get the players to play with than kind of motivation, we'll play better.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

@Spurger King & @Mr Pink (and anyone else who thinks we have somehow been left in a more weakened state attacking wise than last year)

You guys keep talking about the "gamble" Levy has taken but I don't get how you derive that.

Both N'Jie and Son scored more goals per minute than Adebayor and Soldado put together. As did Chadli. We have also added Pritchard to the attack.

We may all have loved to bring in a quality back up striker who could have guaranteed to fit the system in Kane's absence and score at a similar rate, but failing that highly unlikely scenario, we have at least improved our options and productivity over the productivity of the options we had last season.

Who is the specialised striker we could have brought in who would have been guaranteed to be as good, score at a similar rate, to Kane, but be happy not to be first choice in a one striker system ?

Please do not say Berahino. Berahino would have been a massive gamble at the supposed £25m+, not a proven guarantee. He only scored 10 goals in open play last year in 3000 minutes of football. That does not say "guarantee", that says "potential" and "gamble". And anyone who has seen him knows he is nowhere near as good as an AM as players we have or have bought this summer.

I would have loved Embolo, even at 25m but Basel stated he would not be sold this window. And even he, though I am convinced will make it, would have been a gamble at his age and experience (Swiss League), not a cast iron guarantee.

I think the CM area, is far more worthy of a debate. But even there we have two young CM's who helped us get 5th last year despite what were difficult circumstances - first full seasons for both, transition season of new coach, imperfect system of new coach, laziness and tactical indiscipline of others.

We are not worse off. Compared to last season. Unless you rate Capoue, which I did, but he didn't play anyway.

 

[danielneeds]

@Spurger King & @Mr Pink (and anyone else who thinks we have somehow been left in a more weakened state attacking wise than last year)

You guys keep talking about the "gamble" Levy has taken but I don't get how you derive that.

Both N'Jie and Son scored more goals per minute than Adebayor and Soldado put together. As did Chadli. We have also added Pritchard to the attack.

We may all have loved to bring in a quality back up striker who could have guaranteed to fit the system in Kane's absence and score at a similar rate, but failing that highly unlikely scenario, we have at least improved our options and productivity over the productivity of the options we had last season.

Who is the specialised striker we could have brought in who would have been guaranteed to be as good, score at a similar rate, to Kane, but be happy not to be first choice in a one striker system ?

Please do not say Berahino. Berahino would have been a massive gamble at the supposed £25m+, not a proven guarantee. He only scored 10 goals in open play last year in 3000 minutes of football. That does not say "guarantee", that says "potential" and "gamble". And anyone who has seen him knows he is nowhere near as good as an AM as players we have or have bought this summer.

I would have loved Embolo, even at 25m but Basel stated he would not be sold this window. And even he, though I am convinced will make it, would have been a gamble at his age and experience (Swiss League), not a cast iron guarantee.

I think the CM area, is far more worthy of a debate. But even there we have two young CM's who helped us get 5th last year despite what were difficult circumstances - first full seasons for both, transition season of new coach, imperfect system of new coach, laziness and tactical indiscipline of others.

We are not worse off. Compared to last season. Unless you rate Capoue, which I did, but he didn't play anyway.

The crux of it is that we have nobody who can - or has shown they can - play with their back to goal if Kane gets a long term injury. At least last season at a pinch we had Soldado, and Adebayor (before he was properly ex-communicated).

Yes, we may have players who can score, and may have added different scoring options, but I just don't think we are a sophisticated or good enough team to play without a No 9 who can hold the ball up a bit and bring our attacking midfielders into play.