Ratings: Saints VS Spurs

[jonathanhotspur]

That's reassuring.




Yeah, lets ignore the win ratio, the highest points tally, the away record, 18 months of overhaul, young players, foreign players, over fucking priced players, a coach with a net spent of 4 million, etc etc, lets piss our pants because we took a couple of heavy defeats from prolific sides with world class strikers.

And our second home defeat in 14 years was last wednesday under the new regime and his crowd pleasing tactics.

Did I like everything AVb did ? No. Did I like everything I saw today/wednesday. No.

There's the top and bottom of it.

A couple of heavy defeats. A couple of heavy defeats? The ramifications of defeats like that bring almost intolerable media scrutiny on the club and destroy the confidence of the players. I hope you like the above quotes from Lloris.

 

[Legend10]

A couple of heavy defeats. A couple of heavy defeats? The ramifications of defeats like that bring almost intolerable media scrutiny on the club and destroy the confidence of the players. I hope you like the above quotes from Lloris.

For top players to get beat 6-0 is humiliating, to get beat 5-0 is humiliating, to get beat 5-0 a couple of weeks after being beaten 6-0 I wouldn't even start to know how that feels to the players! But still no reason to not be enjoying it.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

Tired of making himself a household name and earning himself his dream move to Madrid ?

I'd say if he said that, he's a wanker.

"At Tottenham I was always trying to get onto the ball and make everything tick, whereas here everybody's doing that, there are world-class players all around the pitch and you're able to concentrate just on your game rather than bringing the whole team forward, and I'm enjoying that."
Read more at http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/268067.html#mpqcESrH0vHksqqC.99

For top players to get beat 6-0 is humiliating, to get beat 5-0 is humiliating, to get beat 5-0 a couple of weeks after being beaten 6-0 I wouldn't even start to know how that feels to the players! But still no reason to not be enjoying it.

Water off a duck's back, me old china. We was able to go out and steamroll the Spammers' B team in our next game.

 

[Legend10]

I mean, the only things positive I took from today are Adebayor and Bentaleb making a great debut.

You didn't see the 3 points as a positive?

 

[EastLondonYid]

Hhmmm….

Is it just a little bit of history repeating itself ? So we follow the foreign guy with new fangled ideas with the English guy who says what we want to hear.

The starting line up was straight out of the Harry Redknapp Silver Linings playbook. Just stick the best 11 players you have into a 442. Fuck a holding midfielder away from home, or matching up their three man midfield, I'm picking sides and I want Eriksen in a cm2, Lamela as a right winger. It was reminiscent of Modric in the CM2 with VDV right wing that we saw a few times under Redknapp. It was a really naive piece of team selection and we were fucking lucky that Southampton didn't have the wherewithal to capitalise. We've been moaning about AVB's team selections, so there is no way we can condone the stupidity of this. Last week I moaned that he pitched a CM2 against Liverpool's 3. That would have been 10-3 to Liverpool today, they'd have murdered that set up, as would many decent sides.

As was often the case with Redknapp though, there was a silver lining, and that silver lining was Adebayor. We all know what Adebayor is capable of. Today we got the real McCoy. We don't win that game and create most of the chances we did without him. Not just the goals and the chances he created for others, but he also saw more more ball than three of our midfield 4.

Without him that would have been a very different game.

The first half was dire. We couldn't string three passes together and Southampton were equally disappointing.
Not only could we not pass but it seems like we are no longer pressing the ball at all anymore. They managed to move the ball from their corner of the pitch to score without any of our players getting within two yards of any of theirs.

The second half we were much better, kept the ball better for the first 20-25 minutes of it. As for the goals, the first one was a great piece of work by Soldado and a great finish by Adebayor, the second was fucking fortuitous as Rose had three players to aim a cut back to, but instead chose to whack it at their defender who scored for us. The third goal was one of those scrappy affairs that you can't help but notice was conspicuous by it's absence from many previous games this year. A ball bobbles around, drops to Adebayor who slots it through a defenders legs (how many times did stuff get blocked in previous games). The counter argument is that it was the inclusion of the previously persona non grata Adebayor that was the vital factor.

The second half was a pretty open affair, with us undoubtedly making more chances, Southampton carved out two or three one v ones, as did we and Soldado missed another couple of humdingers on top.

Eriksen did produce the odd nice touch, including a sweet little ball for Rose that led to the goal, but was largely lost amongst the maelstrom that was the middle third for much of this game.

The defence continues to worry me massively, all of them.

A major positive factor was that we clearly seemed to get more bodies in the box to support attacks. Something we haven't been doing well previously.

I'm not nocking Lamela, I'm glad he was picked ahead of Lennon, he has ability and works hard and I'm sure in time will prove to be a good acquisition, but 30 million ? 30 fucking million ? Shish man, gotta say, I can't remember 30m ever looking this skinny.

The last sub was bonkers. AVB bonkers. Surely Capoue on to shore up the game ?

I'm not being wilfully churlish here I promise. I have no problem in theory with Sherwood getting the job. Before the first two games I'd hoped his time with the youth set up, playing hight tempo 433 type football would be his MO I admit, and I don't really care what the formation is as long as we work hard, pass the ball and play good football. I also like that he seems to be more willing to trust good development players. Hope this is a feature.

I know some will see more positives than me in the Redknappesque nature of that game today, the fact that them having so much ball and us breaking meant we were attacking four defenders sometimes instead of 10. I wish I could say I loved it too, but I didn't. I didn't hate every aspect, but I didn't love every aspect either.

It's early days, lets see what happens in the coming games, we have injuries to come back into the reckoning and will be interesting to see what happens.

First two games have been really hard to weigh up, to see the rhyme or reason in some of the selections, the balance, the tactics not all bad, not all good.

Individual

Lloris - Had a bit of a mare to be honest. I thought he was a bit flat footed for the first goal, shouldn't have come out for the second and punched a few badly.

Walker - Defensively pretty sound today. Offensively didn't offer a lot. Be nice if he could throw it to a team mate occasionally.

Dawson - Dawson

Chiriches - Another who was less than impressive really. Poor in the air, got done twice on through balls (although Rose played one onside I think) and too easily lost by Lallana for the first.

Rose - Got very lucky with the cross which wasn't heading for any of our players. Defensively some less than great moments, and struggles with the offside line. First full game back I guess. Doesn't fill me with loads of confidence at either end I have to say.

Lamela - Tried hard to involve himself. Maybe tried too much at times, I don't know ? Needs to just compose himself at times and his touch and choices will improve. Have to say though, 30m looks very steep.

Eriksen - OK. Don't want to be seeing him too often in a cm2.

Dembele - Second game running he's been caught too much fannying around on the ball. Hard pressers do not suit him. In fact, the odd blinder aside, I'm not overly fond of him in a CM2 either.

Sigurdsson - Very typical Sigurdsson. Has some ability but generally takes a very flotsam jetsam approach to applying it.

Soldado - I was disappointed with his finishing and his work off the ball at times. With that midfield you really want your strikers helping out more than he did at times. The positives are his movement was good, his set up for Adebayor excellent, and he does see a little more of the ball than Defoe.

Adebayor - I hope he's back and his head stays right for the rest of the season. You can almost afford to get some of your tactics skewed if you have a match winner like him on song. You forget how invaluable he was in his "good" season and we actually had 4 world class players in the same team at the same time once.

Bentaleb - Great to see the kid given some time and for him to step up to the mark required on this occasion.

Chadli - Thought he did quiet well while he was on.

Spot on ....

This was a great result but a real lottery, the tactics left us open to any kind of result and i personally think we will lose more than we will win playing that formation.

It did however work as i think their coach wasn't prepared for such a formation which would have failed big time if we didn't have ADE playing like a man with a huge message and point to prove...

I did enjoy the result and especially that spell after we went 3-2 up but i am realistic enough to worry what will happen to us playing anything like that formation at the emirates.

 

[Marcus_spur]

"At Tottenham I was always trying to get onto the ball and make everything tick, whereas here everybody's doing that, there are world-class players all around the pitch and you're able to concentrate just on your game rather than bringing the whole team forward, and I'm enjoying that."
Read more at http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/268067.html#mpqcESrH0vHksqqC.99


Water off a duck's back, me old china. We was able to go out and steamroll the Spammers' B team in our next game.

"I'll learn other types of football, different ways to play and it will make me better as an all-round player, and hopefully it will make me better for my country. If other players did that I'm sure it'd help their games as well."
The little bastard is trying to lure verts and Lloris away...

 

[ItsBoris]

That's virtually impossible because of the balanced schedule of the league. Last year was exceptional in that 72 points finished 5th. It hasn't ever happened before, not even close, in fact. Previously, the highest-ever points total to finish 5th in the 20-team Premiership was 67.

If 7 teams were to get 73+ points, there would then have to be a 20+ point gap between them and the other 13 teams (I'm estimating, but it's about right). It wouldn't happen in such a competitive league, where it is a cliché to point out that any team can beat any other team on a given day. And this season any team is beating any other team and the whole league is tighter, not more widely spaced than usual.

It'll be interesting to see how many teams finish the first half of the season on 35 points or more. As rough a time as we've had we could be on 36 points after 19 games which wouldn't be bad at all. That number still won't have us in the top 4 though. I think it will take even more than 73 points for 4th this time.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

It'll be interesting to see how many teams finish the first half of the season on 35 points or more. As rough a time as we've had we could be on 36 points after 19 games which wouldn't be bad at all. That number still wI think it will take even more than 73 points for 4th this time.

As I wrote above, that can't happen unless there's a 20 point (or possibly larger) gap somewhere in the table. The balanced schedule ensures that: every team playing every other team home and away. Last season we only finished 5th despite having 72 points and there was a huge gap (12 points, I think) between Liverpool and West Brom. If 7 teams finish with 72+ points or if the team finishing 5th has 72 or more points, there has to be a huge gap somewhere. It's very unlikely and I'd say it's not plausible.

Some of the 6-7 clubs that are now on pace for 70+ points will have a drop in form. They will take points off each other - they always do.

 

[Spurs 1961]

Spot on ....

This was a great result but a real lottery, the tactics left us open to any kind of result and i personally think we will lose more than we will win playing that formation.

It did however work as i think their coach wasn't prepared for such a formation which would have failed big time if we didn't have ADE playing like a man with a huge message and point to prove...

I did enjoy the result and especially that spell after we went 3-2 up but i am realistic enough to worry what will happen to us playing anything like that formation at the emirates.

What we need is a balance between tactics and getting the best out of class players. There is little doubt in my mind that our best creative and attacking players need to be given time on the pitch and some freedom to use their ability without every move being pre-planned. Yet we also need some shape, tactical awareness and a coach watching from the sidelines who can tweak personnel and systems to win games.

 

[Wardy]

I missed the 1st half, but after watching the 2nd halfm I couldn't actually believe I was watching Spurs!

Sure the defence was a bit shaky (apart from Walker), but the passing and attacking play was brilliant. Created some many clear cut chances and Adebayor was unreal yesterday.

Can't really understand why Lamela was subbed though, as I thought he was one of the best players on the pitch yesterday!

 

[Shea]

I really enjoyed the game - I had to watch from an Irish bar in bruges with no commentary but it was a far better performance from an attacking sense and we were finally creating chances (Soldado could have made this game a cricket score)


It was also great to see Ade playing like a top striker again and Bentalab was impressive.


The defence was poor and disorganised (Dawson doesn't appear to be able to organise and lead and Vlad needs to be right side of a Cb pairing) we need to eradicate the switching off too.

Other negatives include the dembele and the way they won the midfield battle more often than not

So positives and negatives from an exciting game (though how could anyone expect a click of fingers magic improvement)

Ade motm by a distance and a massive three points from a tough away fixture against a team who are far from mugs

COYS another 3 points against the Baggies

 

[jonnyp]

I missed the 1st half, but after watching the 2nd halfm I couldn't actually believe I was watching Spurs!

Sure the defence was a bit shaky (apart from Walker), but the passing and attacking play was brilliant. Created some many clear cut chances and Adebayor was unreal yesterday.

Can't really understand why Lamela was subbed though, as I thought he was one of the best players on the pitch yesterday!

I want Erik to succeed as much as anyone but he was poor apart from his involvement in our first goal. However, I agree he was better than Sigurdsson, who should've been substituted before Lamela.

 

[eddiebailey]

If I had been making that late substitution I would have brought on Capoue for Soldado as well, however I dont think it's the terror substitution that people are making out. Teams often make this midfielder or defender type of substitution late on and invite more pressure as they find it difficult to get out. As it panned out Southampton didn't create a late chance and we pretty much retained control through a period of the match that you would have expected us to be under severe pressure.

Indeed, and I seem to recall Tim got a lot of criticism for inviting the pressure that caused us to conceded two late goals against West Ham by taking off the flagging Adebayor and replacing him with a midfielder.

A manager who learns and learns quickly would be a wonderful thing.

 

[jezz]

Right lets clear this bit up, its starting to grate me now.
Tim said he only had 3 days with the players, i understand that.
But isnt Tim part of the transfer committee?
What did everyone sit round and say that Capoue looks useful, lets spunk 9 million on him.
Dont know where he plays but yeah i agree 9 million looks cheap sign him?
I think the committee got scouting reports and actually watched him play.
Tim didnt watch any of our games in the beginning of the season?
This political infighting and back slapping, yeah i told you so attitude will cost us in the long run.
Yes young Bentilab did well and would like to see more of him, but not in tight games where it might cost us points. The right choice should have been Capoue.
Sorry just had to get that of my chest and hearing Tim say i dont know anything about Capoue is bull shit.

 

[eddiebailey]

I mean, the only things positive I took from today are Adebayor and Bentaleb making a great debut.

Not three points?

 

[eddiebailey]

Yes young Bentilab did well and would like to see more of him, but not in tight games where it might cost us points. The right choice should have been Capoue.

Tom chose Bentaleb because he has seen him in training everyday for two years and has him doing exactly what he wants him to do.

And the right choice is the one that works.

 

[jezz]

Tom chose Bentaleb because he has seen him in training everyday for two years and has him doing exactly what he wants him to do.

And the right choice is the one that works.

Fair comment
But to say he knows nothing about Capoue is an outright lie.

 

[yusrisafri]

I get it, AVB did some stupid things, so it's OK for the next guy too.

So if there was nothing sustainable, how do you explain that AVB had the best win rate of any manager for 100 years, the best points tally, best away record of any manager in the EPL this year and ours in the EPL ?

Bale.

 

[samspurs92]

The thing I loved most about Bentaleb was his movement after he passed the ball, it reminded me of Modric. Too many of our midfielders just pass the ball and think that's their job done.

Nice refreshingly positive attitude from him.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

This is the worry, it's not a manager with a clear philosophy (and yes Bear I'm allowed to use that word, Sherwood did) just one playing to the gallery(s).

There was zero logic to some of that team today. Lamela and Sig aren't wingers, Eriksen and Dembele sure as shit don't belong in a cm2 against one of the leagues best passing and pressing teams.

I'd have been perfectly happy to play Eriksen and dembele either side of Capoue and have Adebayor in the middle of Lamela, Sig or Chadli in a 433. I don't think Southampto were ever going to be a bus parker so no need to go so kamikaze and have a such a chocolate teapot midfield. We could have scored more but so could they, and they've been out of form more than us lately.

I think that, given our respective views, you can quite easily predict our take on the way we set out, the way the match unfolded and the impressions it has left on that, there's no real point in discussing that, I predict we will have plenty of opportunity to do so in the short to mid-term future if (as expected) Sherwood remains for any significant period of time. I'm just curious about the bit in bold... what would you consider more confidence shattering, form... not winning in 5 league games priot and gaining only 2 points (terrible form, in danger of becoming Ramos-esque in fact) or winning twice and drawing once in the 5 previous matches but sandwitched in between a 6-0 defeat away from home and a 0-5 defeat at home a mere 7 days ago? Yes, in the greater scheme of things our players were going into yesterdays match with 7 points from a possible 15, mediocare but not disgraceful, and theirs were going in with an awful 2, but they've not been humiliated once all season, we were humiliated twice in the space of three weeks. Is it worse to receive many small cuts and bruises, or to receive just two gigantic, deep wounds?

I'm merely asking in terms of which side you think should've had the bigger mental hurdle going into yesterday's match, not which scenario you'd take of the two in an objective world where the bigger picture was all you needed to care about?