Ratings vs Monaco

[THFCSPURS19]

He certainly wasn't the only one at fault for the first goal but his 'attempt' at a header for the second goal was pure cowardice and frankly he doesn't seem like he wants to head the ball, a basic thing for a centre back. He isn't quick, His reading of the game is average, he isn't brave nor good in the air. I don't see what qualities he has to be so highly rated here.

If Vertonghen is so average, how the fuck did we have the best defence last season?

 

[alfie103]

If Vertonghen is so average, how the fuck did we have the best defence last season?

Well I feel Alderweireld contibuted a lot to that as did dier sitting, giving more protection. I also think we were a lot more solid in how we set up and played than compared to the season before.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Well I feel Alderweireld contibuted a lot to that as did dier sitting, giving more protection. I also think we were a lot more solid in how we set up and played than compared to the season before.

You can't have the best defence with a passenger in the back 4.

 

[alfie103]

You can't have the best defence with a passenger in the back 4.

He isn't a terrible player but I personally think wimmer is better.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

I think this is something both @mpickard2087 and I were a minority voice in last season. I think Pochettino made risk averse personnel choices to compensate for not teaching more ambitious players to be more defensively diligent.

I think rather than work hard improving and developing the defensive aspect with Bentaleb, who imo is a better footballer in terms of tempo and ambition than Dembele, or playing Winks next to Wanyama this season, he has preferred the belt and braces.

Now many will point to our results last season and say these choices were valid, and they will have a strong case, some games it definitely paid a dividend, and compensated for a careless front 4 and attacking fb's, but I think sometimes I think it was a bit lazy tactically and there was room for a more ambitious approach a lot of the tand I think it would have been a defensive strength as well as an offensive one at times because there were so many lost points through our cm's stopping showing and getting on the ball or being able to capitalise on sections of games when we were in counter attack mode, we'd also have the option in games we need to protect of bringing Dembele or Dier in or even moving Dembele up into the AM zone.

Looking back, I can see have lack of bravery could have been a just complaint also last season. I didn't really think about it at the time, though. I think we must allow for more personal flair, but take for instance Pochettino's comment on Lamela's nutmeg (not that that's the sort of flair I'm really calling for), he seems to be to pragmatic in his preferences.

He certainly wasn't the only one at fault for the first goal but his 'attempt' at a header for the second goal was pure cowardice and frankly he doesn't seem like he wants to head the ball, a basic thing for a centre back. He isn't quick, His reading of the game is average, he isn't brave nor good in the air. I don't see what qualities he has to be so highly rated here.

That's a shocking comment, given that Vertonghen wins on average as many or more aerial duels than Rose and Alderweireld put together. (For clarification: Walker is probably even better in this aspect, though).

Well I feel Alderweireld contibuted a lot to that as did dier sitting, giving more protection. I also think we were a lot more solid in how we set up and played than compared to the season before.

Here you are at least talking some sense, but I don't buy this notion that Alderwerield is gold and Vertonghen shite. It's just a shitty view to persist having, and I mean that as a serious comment, not a flippant one.

 

[alfie103]

That's a shocking comment, given that Vertonghen wins on average as many or more aerial duels than Rose and Alderweireld put together. (For clarification: Walker is probably even better in this aspect, though).

Well I didn't see him go up for corners vs Monaco and he rarely seems to clear a long ball with his head, either misjudging it or barely getting his head on it.

May I ask where you got that stat from?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Liverpool tonight giving a good example (edit - for the first 60 minutes - typically Chelsea score as I type this) of how you can be excellent defensively without having a true DM even on the pitch. Klopp has switched to a 433 and has what you'd consider very attacking players in a cm3 (certainly Lallana and Wijnaldum) yet they are still suffocating a top side away.

Example of getting defensive performance from more offensive or offensively ambitious players, then you have more offensive tempo and threat when you do recover the ball.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Liverpool tonight giving a good example (edit - for the first 60 minutes - typically Chelsea score as I type this) of how you can be excellent defensively without having a true DM even on the pitch. Klopp has switched to a 433 and has what you'd consider very attacking players in a cm3 (certainly Lallana and Wijnaldum) yet they are still suffocating a top side away.

Example of getting defensive performance from more offensive or offensively ambitious players, then you have more offensive tempo and threat when you do recover the ball.

As you say, poorly timed. That was atrocious defending from Liverpool.

 

[JimmyG2]

Liverpool tonight giving a good example (edit - for the first 60 minutes - typically Chelsea score as I type this) of how you can be excellent defensively without having a true DM even on the pitch. Klopp has switched to a 433 and has what you'd consider very attacking players in a cm3 (certainly Lallana and Wijnaldum) yet they are still suffocating a top side away.

Example of getting defensive performance from more offensive or offensively ambitious players, then you have more offensive tempo and threat when you do recover the ball.

Yes we seem to have a thing about midfield destroyers.
Wanyama is the latest in a long line of crunchers who can't pass very well
like Palacios and Sandro.
Sissoko could be an advance on this attitude.
Or even Winks Onomah, and Carroll
(I know I've gone too far now)
Probably a hangover fro the Glory Glory days of Dave Mackay
but he could pass and squeeze your balls at the same time.

 

[Gilzeanking]

Poch has to get a grip because all over the park in every facet we are down on last season. Our game is largely built on energy, desire and work rate, and we haven't got them at the moment.

.

I was on hols til yesterday so , sorry to be so late in here . Anyway this ^ is the key issue imo . As Toby said in the summer 'If we don't have our effort we are (just) a normal team '

Add to this the recent Poch article where he was complaining about his players being tired from summer competitions etc ...and there we have the prob in a nutshell.

Our press has yet to come together as previously . Poch may be having trouble motivating our millionaires .Tired yes , but other teams have the same prob and Eriksen for example had the full summer's rest .

Lets hope this is a temporary thing and we can find the physical resources to overcome Sunderland today .