Ratings vs Newcastle United

[lifeof...]

Always thought this was going to be a tough game from the start against a average hardworking well organised Newcastle side which I was never really looking forward to.

I also was a bit worried when I saw that Livermore was in the starting line up but in fairness he did not have the worst of games but I did not really notice him that much. Where is Sandro?

I actually thought we started the game of quite well. I thought we looked sharp and up for it making some good moves and some good passing in tight positions but Newcastle soon came into it, they are very psychical and work hard off the ball

We never looked great but I never felt we were poor against a hard working hard to break down Newcastle side.

Our movement got poorer and so did our passing as the game went on. but we got the pen (which was a deffo pen) and took the lead after a pretty scrappy half to be honest.

After the pen I thought right this is it we are going to win the game, we are going to battle it out and win a scrappy game which we would of lost a few seasons ago.

I thought he could of changed it 2nd half, took Livermore off, moved Modric in the centre and bring Santos on the right.

2nd half they come out and scored basically straight away from really poor defending from modric and walker.

I thought they looked dangerous without looking a real threat if you know what I mean they passed it ok and I thought the equalizer was coming for some time.

one thing I can say is what has happened to our passing? When we keep the ball we look good but we just kept giving it away and making stupid balls. Everytime I saw Bale get the ball he gave it away or ran into a Newcastle player.


Gutted really as I feel we could of won the game but pleased with a point as we were up against a hardworking well organised side.


Friedel- 6 done ok

Walker-6.5 has got good pace going forward but gets the wrong side of his man too many times and relies on his pace to get back. Good going forward not so good defending in fault for the goal. Not going to take us to that next level

Kaboul- 8 really good game, solid, always liked Kaboul and think he is a better denfender than dawson

King-6 done ok when he was on,

Bassong- 7 done well.

bae-7 done well, good on the ball

bale-4 shite, everytime he got the ball, he gave it away or ran into his man or fell over, why was he not subbed?

modric-6 done ok but not the best of games, but battled well

parker- 6 not the best of games but again worked hard and battled well

livermore-6 done ok, did not notice him much done good enough though.

vdv-7 took pen really really well, worked hard, wasted a couple of good chances,

ade- 6.5 done some ok things, couple of good touches, but was upfront with not much service

defoe- 7 great goal, thats it, wasted a few good chances

Alot of your comments i agree with, re difficult game, and our passing...but how can you criticize walker for affectively his positioning, but praise BAE as done well, and good on the ball? BAE was in dream land for the 1st and way out of position...He should have been tucked in! BAE was not good on the ball, it was probably his poorest part of his game today.(yesterday)

Part of the reason the cross came in for the 1st, is Modric, went to Jonas, a pointed walker to cover the overlapping player...Walker did...Modric let Jonas ghost past him, leaving Walker slightly wrong footed, and Jonas the opportunity for the run to the bi line. He put in a good cross which Walker wasn't able to block....it happens. Ba was so unmarked he probably felt lonely, because BAE hadn't tucked in, was not even aware of him, he was in dream land again....standing around on his jack jones....


Edit.....I can offer a possible suggestion as to why Bale wasn't subbed. We had already used 1 sub (king) early on, then Defoe for VDV, Walker was struggling. and one knock could have ended his game....So the last sub ,as is normal is held back.....I am assuming that Ade was struggling or was getting a niggle from his injury.

 

[Marty]

Kaboul and Livermore were the standouts for me yesterday.

Bale disappointing, the rest pretty much did alright, nothing special. Seen a few low marks for Modric that I don't get at all, he wasn't fantastic but definitely not 4/5 material. 6.5 for me.

 

[mpickard2087]

then i suggest we agree to disagree Im not sure if greedy is the right word, confident of himself...yes.. instinctive....yes single focus.....yes..

I'm sure Clive Allen would have took it on as well.

Whilst the decision has been proven as wrong,,,my point was i honestly think it is a bit churlish for blaming him for taking on the shot, and making that decision culpable of our failure to gain 3 points, rather than the panic defense mode we went into.

I dont blame this for the reason that we didnt hold on to the three points, but it was the best opportunity we had and it came so late on. There were a number of opportunities that we fucked up simply through greed or poor decision making, which occurs often with us and im baffled as to why it happens, I cant believe some of our players are that mentally challenged they cant see easy options and make the game harder than it is.

 

[lifeof...]

I dont blame this for the reason that we didnt hold on to the three points, but it was the best opportunity we had and it came so late on. There were a number of opportunities that we fucked up simply through greed or poor decision making, which occurs often with us and im baffled as to why it happens, I cant believe some of our players are that mentally challenged they cant see easy options and make the game harder than it is.

See thats what happens if you butt in half way through a conversation, you miss the point! (joke)

Earlier in the thread some had stated this was the main reason for us losing the 3 points....i disagreed

 

[paddy30]

I've watched the game on TV

Friedel 7
Walker 6
BAE 6.5
King 7.5
Kaboul 6.5
Bassong 4
Modric 8 <at 1-1, this guys took responsibilty, he was taking the whole newcaslte midfiled byhimself almost dribble all the way to goal twice>
Livermore 3 <some odd intercepts...but very zokora like, put a tackle in for funk sake,>
Parker 7
Bale 5 <becoming more of a wuss lately>
Defoe 7
VDV 6
Adebayor 6.5

MOM SANDRO- Would have win if he had been playing today.

Modric 8??? Took responsibility???? Modric was rubbish lets be some way honest about it and i dont care that he played out wide he looked to have no interest a rating of 4 i would give him

 

[stemark44]

I was really disappointed with our performance and if you look at the results we have had.............maybe we are not just as good as we think we are.
Looking at the teams we have beaten............at the moment, Arsenal are not a good side,Wolves have lost 5 in a row and Wigan just got stuffed by Bolton,who are another crap team.
We played well against Liverpool but they had 9 men.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

To say Modric doesn't work on the right side is incorrect, our best play still comes through him as he naturally drifts inside (Walker advancing into that space created). It is wrong to say it doesn't work, but I think it is fair to say it doesn't work best - and to me he is our most important player.

I think Modric would be best deployed when he is 2 things, central and unshackled i.e in a Cm3 something like this...

Sandro
Parker Modric​

There is really not much this midfield doesn't do - perhaps Parker doesn't quite have the legs to get from box to box as well as some but that is nitpicking. You have the almost perfect blend of ball winning/retaining and creating. Sandro is a superb ball winning water carrier, Parker can win the ball but also recycle possession with intelligence and some level of creativity who can also break forward well, and Mod is the perfect modern playmaker who is a bit more tenacious than some give him credit for.

I don't think he's our most important player at all and I am intrigued at this idea of building a side around a wantaway player. If we end up cashing in on him, who would you like us to replace him with in this particular formation?

I'm not really a fan of the 4-2-3-1 that is a lot of people's weapon of choice, including those I respect on here for the simple reason I think the trequartista position, i.e VDVs favoured slot is becoming more and more redundant, it's so easy to nullify with the Makelele role. The key to that space in between the lines is not sticking a player in there, but exploiting that space through players moving into it whether that be players from deeper breaking forward, the false 9 forward who drops off the defensive line into the hole or a wide man drifting infield (where I think VDV should be deployed in a narrow wide role, with Walker on the overlap). In the words of Villas Boas you must 'provoke' teams out of position to create space, then you must exploit it.

I think this is a very interesting point but I am not convinced by it. I am frequently amazed at how he manages to ghost into such great positions. I think the thing that's often lacking is our final ball.

Could we say that Suarez is a false 9?

So something like this would be my general starting point...

Walker King Kaboul BAE
--------Sandro
-----Parker Modric
--VDV--------------------Bale
----------Ade

Modric is in his best position, but not with the same defensive duty, VDV is higher up the pitch where he is best and Walker advancing down the right flank at every opportunity. A team like this must play compactly, no 60 yard gap between defence and attack, and high up the pitch, VDV(and Bale) doesn't then have to track back 40 yards when we lose the ball - which hopefully won't be too often with a solid CM3 that would rarely get outfought and never outnumbered.

I really think a lopsided 4-3-3 like this would get the best out of our best players.

I really like this point.

 

[ShelfSide18]

I don't think he's our most important player at all and I am intrigued at this idea of building a side around a wantaway player. If we end up cashing in on him, who would you like us to replace him with in this particular formation?

Modric is the player that keeps us ticking and moving better than any other I've seen in a Spurs shirt, without him in the side we lack the same rhythm and fluency. Parker and VDV will often see similar amounts of the ball, but they don't get the team passing and moving quite like Modric does, although they do contribute to that well. Replacing him will not be easy as the role he plays is a relatively new one, the modern style playmaker as opposed to your old style between the lines playmaker - who I'm really not sure, and that's why I'm thrilled we still have him because these players don't grow on trees.

I think this is a very interesting point but I am not convinced by it. I am frequently amazed at how he manages to ghost into such great positions. I think the thing that's often lacking is our final ball.

That's sort of the point though, it's when he ghosts into space that he becomes a problem for teams, that's why I suggest this zone of the pitch should never be occupied with a fixed player, because it's easier to defend against. You entice the opposition out of position leaving space in between the lines then clever movement exploits. First you create the space, then you exploit it.

You are correct though our final ball intelligence in the final third can be really poor

Could we say that Suarez is a false 9?

For me Suarez is more of a wide forward, for Liverpool he will often pop up on the left flank and run the channels - his movement is probably the best in the Premiership. I really don't think he'd be best used as a false 9 dropping deep because his pace and movement are best exploited running the channels and getting in behind.

Players like RVP, Messi, Rooney, Totti, Tevez are the best current examples of False 9s in European football, I also think VDV could play this role for us. In fact I'd say Suarez would be the perfect complement to the false 9, exploiting the space created by a false 9 dropping off the defensive line.





I really like this point.

We really should have a tactics thread in General Football, because this can really take threads off track!

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Which is what Suarez does when he plays with another great false 9, Forlan.

 

[ShelfSide18]

Which is what Suarez does when he plays with another great false 9, Forlan.

Indeed, I forget about Uruguay.

I still personally prefer the classic number 10 centre forward at the moment however, as we have in Adebayor, and other no10s like Berbatov/Drogba/Kanoute etc.

This is way off topic now but my ideal forward 3 includes a central no10, a direct inside forward and more of a drifting wide player who will cut in and drift into space between the lines - hence no false9 as they will invade the same space. Something like this is nirvana for me...

Silva-------------Ronaldo
--------Drogba

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Indeed, I forget about Uruguay.

I still personally prefer the classic number 10 centre forward at the moment however, as we have in Adebayor, and other no10s like Berbatov/Drogba/Kanoute etc.

This is way off topic now but my ideal forward 3 includes a central no10, a direct inside forward and more of a drifting wide player who will cut in and drift into space between the lines - hence no false9 as they will invade the same space. Something like this is nirvana for me...

Silva-------------Ronaldo
--------Drogba

Nice. I'm there.

Although for that you need real pro-active coaching because the midfield needs to be super tight, press hard and as you say, you need to play high.

I still think with what we've got the 4231 is the best option. And I think currently, the pivotal players in our team are Adebayor, Parker and VDV. Parker provides as much incision as Modric does from cm, and nearly as much ball tick, but with none of the defensive compromise, Adebayor is as close to a Drogba we will get (and like you, I have always said Drogba is the most complete striker around) pace, skill, movement, vision and goals, and VDV links the two areas superbly but also scores and assists, has vision and work rate.

Modric is a very important player, but I think he isn't clinical enough to play the trequartista, and some weeks is too much of a defensive compromise to play in cm and we aren't coached well enough to adopt the other formation/tactics that you suggest, although I agree they would be worth considering.

Parker has provided a solution to that problem. He is a footballing busy ****, who will tackle and pass all day long but get forward and play an incisive pass.

Modric for me, must adapt and become our "Silva" or Nasri. He has the tools and movement and he can be equally as important.

 

[Mr Pink]

, Some of it may have been, (and he (H) actually saidsome of our meaning not all of the decsions)

Livermore would be wrong if that was his reaction. Defoe was well within the right to take that shot on.... Its easy to say after it didn't work, why didn't he, etc....but when you look at the position, it hard to disagree with him taking the shot on, imo...its a little churlish...equally, Defoe goal, is the type of goal, we would not have scored if he was looking at options all the time, instead of instinctively making space and pulling the trigger..If you want someone capable of doing both really well, then his name probably ends in messi.



The point made was, it wasn't what lost us the game, We were 2-1 up with approx 5 + mins to go...we didnt keep the ball, we constantly gave it to them. giving them the opportunity....that is the main reason, why we didnt get 3 points, not the poor decision making by the attacking unit, as stated.

When you have the chances we had away from home at a very tough place like SJP you have to take them or invariably you'll be punished.

I'm not blaming Defoe, he scored a great goal, but the correct move there was to square it.

 

[Mr Pink]

Nice. I'm there.

Although for that you need real pro-active coaching because the midfield needs to be super tight, press hard and as you say, you need to play high.

I still think with what we've got the 4231 is the best option. And I think currently, the pivotal players in our team are Adebayor, Parker and VDV. Parker provides as much incision as Modric does from cm, and nearly as much ball tick, but with none of the defensive compromise, Adebayor is as close to a Drogba we will get (and like you, I have always said Drogba is the most complete striker around) pace, skill, movement, vision and goals, and VDV links the two areas superbly but also scores and assists, has vision and work rate.

Modric is a very important player, but I think he isn't clinical enough to play the trequartista, and some weeks is too much of a defensive compromise to play in cm and we aren't coached well enough to adopt the other formation/tactics that you suggest, although I agree they would be worth considering.

Parker has provided a solution to that problem. He is a footballing busy ****, who will tackle and pass all day long but get forward and play an incisive pass.

Modric for me, must adapt and become our "Silva" or Nasri. He has the tools and movement and he can be equally as important.

Indeed.

Modric needs to become more dangerous when approaching the oppositions box. He carries the ball better than anyone in the League upfield, and holds on to it in tight situations like I've never seen before, but always seems a little reluctant when he actually gets in and around the box and as a result he isn't as clinical or dangerous as his skill set suggests he should be.

If he develops that side of the game he could be truly sensational and would be even better than the likes of Nasri and Silva for me.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

Seeing as we're on a roll here, ShelfSide18, do you think Bale's future ought to be at left back and who would you like our next manager to be?

 

[Paolo10]

Shit rolls too, dungbeetles innit.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

I recommend using a toilet.

 

[ShelfSide18]

Nice. I'm there.

Although for that you need real pro-active coaching because the midfield needs to be super tight, press hard and as you say, you need to play high.

I still think with what we've got the 4231 is the best option. And I think currently, the pivotal players in our team are Adebayor, Parker and VDV. Parker provides as much incision as Modric does from cm, and nearly as much ball tick, but with none of the defensive compromise, Adebayor is as close to a Drogba we will get (and like you, I have always said Drogba is the most complete striker around) pace, skill, movement, vision and goals, and VDV links the two areas superbly but also scores and assists, has vision and work rate.

Modric is a very important player, but I think he isn't clinical enough to play the trequartista, and some weeks is too much of a defensive compromise to play in cm and we aren't coached well enough to adopt the other formation/tactics that you suggest, although I agree they would be worth considering.

Parker has provided a solution to that problem. He is a footballing busy ****, who will tackle and pass all day long but get forward and play an incisive pass.

Modric for me, must adapt and become our "Silva" or Nasri. He has the tools and movement and he can be equally as important.

I would be interested to know how Villas Boas planned to use him at Chelsea actually, as he brought in Mata shortly afterwards who plays in their forward 3, was he thinking of him as the guile in the final third (i.e Nasri/Silva/Ozil) ?

Then again I'm inclined to believe he wanted him to play in a Cm3 alongside Mikel and Ramires, something like this, replacing Lampard.

Mikel
Ramires Modric​

But you know what, why not both? Universality is the name of the game now, Modric as part of a Cm3 or a forward 3/4, dependant on occasion/opposition etc Obviously a manager will have his one size fits all strongest side, but the demands of the game requires rotation, and players able to play different roles is not just a luxury now, it's a pre-requisite.

As you say, Mod isn't clinical enough as the trequartista - and I do think that position is dying recently due to the 'Makelele' role - but on the right/left flank in an interpretation of the 4-3-3/4-5-1 is more than acceptable to me, but I do think in a CM3 is where we should use him, alongside Parker and Sandro. I think it's a near perfect combination.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/may/06/croatiafootballteam.europeanfootball

 

[Blake Griffin]

so do most people, but harry won't. he'll play three central midfielders but only two of them in central midfield.

 

[Boots]

Kaboul and King played exceptionally well but Kaboul outshone the entire team. Look great and I'm optimistic Bassong will rediscover his form along side an in form Younes.

 

[ShelfSide18]

Seeing as we're on a roll here, ShelfSide18, do you think Bale's future ought to be at left back and who would you like our next manager to be?

Tough one, the way we play at the moment I don't want him at LB, because we don't dominate possession high up the field and spend large quantities of the game on the front foot which I think is necessary in order to play 2 marauding, attacking FBs like Barca/Chelsea. Consider the current Barca team, Bale would surely be the perfect LB, because they spend so little time defending on the back foot, and would play the exact same role as Alves does so superbly on the other flank.

We did see how effective he could be at LB in the short time he played behind Modric, who drifted in leaving space for Bale to advance forward - runners from deep are perhaps one of the hardest things to defend against in football all over the pitch, mainly because they advance through zones with momentum. Sometimes Bale is ineffective because he loves receiving the ball then running at his man, which is easy to defend against by Phil Nevilleing him, getting tight. Maicon did the exact opposite, hence the calls for the taxi.

Bale should be coached how to understand space better, because for a man with his direct pace he doesn't get in behind the FB and CB anywhere enough as much as he really should. This in turn would make him a better defender too, because he'll read the space in behind better. It's win, win. At the moment he is at his most useful on the counter, when the game is stretched and he can run at back peddling players. Ultimately I want to see him play LB/LW equally as comfortably - it's all about universality.

I also will join the minority of supporting Redknapp's use of him on the right wing on occasions, SAF did this with Ronaldo at first which was resisted, but you can't say it didn't pay enormous dividends. It may be frustrating seeing Bale on the right, but if he became a more complete player by learning the right wing role then we will benefit in the long term - I'm also very fond of wide players who come inside onto their strongest foot too.The only consideration is whether it will impact too much on our most important season yet, where CL qualification is everything.

As for our next manager, I haven't really thought about it too much surprisingly, I suppose the one pre-requisite would be someone who has won major honours, someone to take us from good team to top team. Hiddink/Van Gaal/Ancelotti possibly.