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Ratings vs Southampton

MOM

  • Lloris

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • Naughton

    Votes: 3 1.0%
  • Kaboul

    Votes: 2 0.7%
  • Vertonghen

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Rose

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • Lennon

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • Dembele

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Bentaleb

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Eriksen

    Votes: 220 75.1%
  • Chadle

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Soldado

    Votes: 61 20.8%
  • Sigurdsson

    Votes: 3 1.0%
  • Townsend

    Votes: 1 0.3%

  • Total voters
    293

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
Jun 13, 2008
21,894
32,582
Hard to know what to say about that, as there was a lot of bad to go with some encouraging things we saw. Two stupid bits of defending from us to put us 0-2 down were kindly equalled out by them and after plugging away we finally managed to sneak a winner from a good strike.

Our first half performance was quite simply dreadful in most aspects of the play. We'll start from the front. I know Soldado, Chadli, Eriksen etc will get plaudits for their performances, and rightly so, but we did see what happens when you try and play a high line without consistent pressure on the ball in front of the defence. Far too many times they were able to play the ball out from the back and work their way up the pitch far too easily. This was then compounded by Lennon and Dembele being virtually anonymous and Bentaleb not yet, if he ever will be judging by his skillset, always able to shield the defence effectively, especially when he is the only one trying to do this task after being abandoned by his midfield partner. As I always say, I haven't got a problem with the high line, but although we did catch them offside a few times it looked a bit through luck rather than judgement and we have to close down better and make things more difficult for the opposition.

Despite what was going on in front of them, I thought the defence was largely poor. It was Naughton who made the errors but in all truth they were all culpable of poor bits of defending and offering the Southampton attack too much room to manoeuvre and we got away with it a few times. First half things looked very bad indeed.

At this point there seemed little hope of us getting back into the match, a couple of generous pieces of defending later though... And we were on the front foot, and it was good to see that for the second week in succession we forced the opposition onto the back foot. For large periods of the half they had no outlet up the pitch, and the centre backs had a much easier ride. It still wasn't a vintage display, but we saw some more good play from a number of individuals. Chadli looks far happier playing centrally and having the freedom to play across the pitch, he also seems a yard quicker and stronger recently. Soldado was encouraging with his general play and I am pleased that he cut out the silly, 'hail mary' ambitious flicks and tricks and just did some sensible hold up play to bring people into the game, as I was asking to do in the previous ratings thread from the other night. Nothing special, just did the bread and butter stuff to the high standard, which is what you want.

The star of the show though for me was Eriksen, even without the two goals. The real class act for us on the pitch, he controls it, turns and passes all in one fluid movement without breaking stride a lot of the time. Some of his passes and lay-offs on the run were perfectly weighted, his lay off for the winning goal for instance. Still more to come from him in some aspects of his play, but he is a classy player and its a pleasure to watch when he is contributing as he did today.

It is nice to see that the players have fought hard in the last three games instead of giving up, it seems the spirit is still there (or been rediscovered, if you are of that opinion) and as long as they show some fight/heart then you can stay behind the team. But lets not kid ourselves, still a truckload of work that needs to be done and a lot of areas to improve. Probably not under Sherwood. A long road ahead...

Ratings:

Lloris - No chance with two good finishes. One good save first half, with little to do in the second half. Much better kicking today I thought, seemed to get much more distance on them.

Naughton - A couple of really horrendous bits of play that led to the goals we conceded. If you are going to be unkind then you would say its a stark reminder after a few decent-ish displays... He did come back from those mistakes quite well though and was better second half, albeit when we were on the front foot, so some credit for that.

Kaboul - First half there were a few struggles. Second half with less to do he looked better and a bit more dominant, like old, than we have seen from him since his comeback.

Vertonghen - The less impressive of the two in central defence for me. Regularly afforded his man too much room, sometimes in dangerous situations, must mark tighter at times. Was probably glad we were on the front foot second half and didn't have as much work to do.

Rose - I thought he was possibly the best of the back four in the first half actually. As the game went on though he became more and more shaky. Little composure and just seemed ill at ease, characterised by him giving the ball away on occasions, not being in the right position and a couple of silly fouls. Not one of his best games at all.

Lennon - Waste of space. Minimal effort, minimal contribution.

Bentaleb - Given the holding role today, Sherwood really is asking a lot of him. He stuck at it though and his defensive game is getting better, though he still has much to learn. Not a perfect display nor one of his more eye-catching, but he didn't disgrace himself.

Dembele - Injured or not, that was way below par. Can have no complaints about being subbed.

Eriksen - As I said above, numerous classy moments and two goals. Very good display and hopefully he can keep this up till the end of the season.

Chadli - Improving all the time and looking better in a central role. Final ball could have been better on a couple of occasions but he is linking up well with others and is on an upward trajectory.

Soldado - Much better. His first touch which is often hit and miss was much more assured and as I said I was much more impressed with him keeping things simple with his link up play rather than trying extravagant flicks. Whilst not threatening much in terms of looking likely to score, he played in others well at times, most obviously for Eriksen's 2nd goal. Needs to build on this now.

Subs:

Sigurdsson - I will again give him credit for trying his best in the central midfield role. Some of his positional play and decision making was quite terrible on a couple of occasions which let them drive up the pitch, though you might expect that from someone who is just filling in there, but he did work hard along with Bentaleb in the second half. Scored a really good goal at the end and showed his best ability, his shooting. Did well today.

Townsend - Just seemed confused what he was trying to do a lot of the time and was running around with the ball to little effect. Trying way too hard. One moment summed things up, about half a yard from the goal line yet still tried a Cruyff turn and took it out of play... Even Cruyff himself wouldn't have managed to perform that turn in that little amount of space! Needs to calm down and think when he is on the pitch.
 

TEESSIDE1

Married, new job and Spurs on the up!
Jul 3, 2006
15,215
19,009
There's been nothing funny about Dembele's numerous diabolical performances this season.

And there's nothing 'immediate' about anyone writing him off either.

If we want an English core, the likes of Delph and Westwood have impressed this season ... potential replacements for Dumbele.

Edit:

Oh no, they play for Villa, they must be crap :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:

davidmatzdorf

Front Page Gadfly
Jun 7, 2004
18,106
45,030
Lloris - 6 - There when he needed to be.

Naughton - 5 - A very creditable second half doesn't really compensate for costing us 2 goals - usually pretty good at right back, but not today.

Kaboul & Vertonghen - both 6 - At the beginning of the season, I, along with virtually everyone else, expected the Kaboul & Vertonghen would be our best 2 central defenders and also our best pairing - Kaboul's power and heading ability combined with Vertonghen's passing and attacking flair - but it hasn't worked out that way, in fact our defence has generally performed better, I think in terms of goals conceded as well as style, when one of them has played with Dawson; in the second half they settled down and largely smothered Southampton, but they just don't look comfortable together - not on each other's wavelength.

Rose - 5.5 - Not a good day for fullbacks on either team, indeed 4 of the 5 goals resulted from a fullback's individual mistake - Rose made a series of solid tackles and decent runs in the final 35 minutes, but prior to that he was repeatedly caught out of position and outwitted. Fortunate not to concede many Southampton chances.

Lennon - 5.5 - This season's typical Lennon performance: a lot of sterling midfield teamwork, a few exciting-looking runs, but with his head down, ending with either no pass/cross or an inaccurate delivery.

Bentaleb - 7 - A very good performance, as usually is the case, studded with 2 or 3 incidents of naivety where you suddenly remember that he's only 19. The more I watch Bentaleb, the more I think that he has a skill that is underrated, a quality he shares with Huddlestone: his passes are very precise in their weight and direction, so they don't just arrive at their destination, they arrive in the recipient's stride; as a result, he gives his teammates less to do to continue the move and retain the ball. It's a subtle skill and makes his sideways, ball-retaining passes the opposite of negative - he keeps things moving and makes sure we keep the ball.

Chadli - 7 - A player finding a vein of good, consistent form at last: busy, quick, powerful and decisive, lacking only a superior final ball or shot for an even higher score.

Dembele - 5 - Inconspicuous, ineffective and uninvolved - deserved to be removed at half time.

Eriksen - 8.5 - Now clearly our best player and showing signs of being our new Modric, but with goals. Let's hope we hang onto him for many years.

Soldado - 8 - Some excellent touches and superb hold-up play - had clearly been told 'today you have to be Adebayor' and he accomplished that. Lacked only a goal.


Sigurdsson - 7.5 - Not just the goal: from the moment he came on, in an unaccustomed central 'engine room' role, he was busy, vigorous, accurate and constructive. I'm tempted to think that Sigurdsson plays better when he's less peripheral, where he doesn't have to wait for the ball. And of course he won us the game. Great substitution.

Townsend - 4.5 - Something is wrong with Townsend. He hasn't looked quick or fully fit since he returned from injury and today he scarcely jogged around except when he had the ball, when he achieved a brisk trot. Much less involved and effective defensively than Lennon, but with no more attacking edge. Lousy substitution.
 

DiscoD1882

SC Supporter
Mar 27, 2006
6,979
14,832
I want the hot-cold ratings guy back. Who was it and why don't you do it any more??
 

Gedson100

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2012
4,487
14,648
Wasn't me but hey, easily done:

Eriksen
Soldado
Chadli
Sigurdsson

Kaboul
Bentaleb
Lloris
Vertonghen

Townsend
Naughton
Rose

Dembele
Lennon

Anyone wondering why Lennon is below other poor performers; I literally typed the other 12 out THEN COULDN'T REMEMBER WHO OUR 13TH PLAYER WAS for about a minute.
 

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
Dec 7, 2006
15,014
20,779
Game of two halves. Southampton played the second half as though they had seen the final score at half time.
But then so did we.
Lloris..........6..One good block at 2-0. Little else today.Using a telescope to see his back four.
Naughton....5..Played ok apart from two sloppy errors Just he was proving everyone wrong.
Kaboul........6+.Good going forward at times. Took some risks but got away with it.
Vertonghen.6..Steady performance. Doesn't seem to actually enjoy playing football.
Rose...........5..Silly and uneccessary fouls from which we might have been punished.
Bentaleb......6..Nothing spectacular. Solid all rounder. Just about justified his selection.
Dembele......5..Very ordinary. If fit he's poor. If not shouldn't be playing.
Lennon........4+..You know the old joke about trying, very trying.
Chadli..........7..Another Tim favourite threatening to come good.
Soldado.......8..If I thought he read SC ratings I'd give him MOM. Lovely touch.
Eriksen........8+. But as he doesn't I'm giving it to the one that actually deserves it.

Siggy...........7..Better infield, worked hard and scored the winner.
Townsend.....5+..Better than Aaron but so is my gran these days.

Tim...............Obviously doing something right, that's three good performances after sloppy starts.
Chadli a Tim selection coming good and substitute scored the winner. But why do they come out at the start like heavy losers from a betting shop?
 

worcestersauce

"I'm no optimist I'm just a prisoner of hope
Jan 23, 2006
26,966
45,256
Best team - Saints
Best Players - Spurs
Best Players won out in the end
Eriksen the Guv'nor today
Overall Winners - anybody who watched the game, an absolute cracker.
 

DiscoD1882

SC Supporter
Mar 27, 2006
6,979
14,832
Wasn't me but hey, easily done:

Eriksen
Soldado
Chadli
Sigurdsson

Kaboul
Bentaleb
Lloris
Vertonghen

Townsend
Naughton
Rose

Dembele
Lennon

Anyone wondering why Lennon is below other poor performers; I literally typed the other 12 out THEN COULDN'T REMEMBER WHO OUR 13TH PLAYER WAS for about a minute.
I love this. Good work sir.
 

OmarsComing

Mentally Disturbed Individual!
Jan 2, 2011
7,255
7,665
Townsend - 4.5 - Something is wrong with Townsend. He hasn't looked quick or fully fit since he returned from injury and today he scarcely jogged around except when he had the ball, when he achieved a brisk trot. Much less involved and effective defensively than Lennon, but with no more attacking edge. Lousy substitution.

Nothing wrong with Townsend apart from not being that good and the furore he created for England is finally wearing off.
 

CheeseGromit

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2013
747
584
Eriksen certainly spurs best and had a mjor influence on the game
Soldado and Chadli were pretty good
No comment on Naughton but credit to him he got through it

Dembele should not have been on the park injured or not
Rose, please somebody tell him you cannot play football on your a***
I have some sympathy for the full backs as I think the way we play with the acres of space in front of them. invites the opposition into that territory and exposes them
 

jezz

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
5,654
8,672
Eriksen certainly spurs best and had a mjor influence on the game
Soldado and Chadli were pretty good
No comment on Naughton but credit to him he got through it

Dembele should not have been on the park injured or not
Rose, please somebody tell him you cannot play football on your a***
I have some sympathy for the full backs as I think the way we play with the acres of space in front of them. invites the opposition into that territory and exposes them
Thats why you play a dedicated holding player to cover the hole when the full backs bomb on.
 

Oshi

Well-Known Member
Jun 27, 2011
2,747
4,109
Rose is shit, waste of time when he gets on the ball in the final third, annoying thing is it happens so often.

Shame we don't have a decent full back to take advantage of how many opportunities our current bunch get in the final third.

He is quick and aggressive though, not afraid of a big tackle (Oooooer matron) even if it gets him into a spot of bother.
 

Flashspur

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2012
6,883
9,069
A terrific strike from Sigurdsson, who had a really good half. Dembele did not look well at all and it was a mitake to play him if he had not trained all week. I cant believe some of the crap on here about him. When he is fit, he is a very good player.
Naughton made two shocking mistakes, but for the rest of the game he was not that bad. He also laid on the cross for our first goal.
Eriksen was a clear MOTM after a poor opening 25 minutes. Why would Sherwood drop him like he has? Bizarre. This is the player we have to build our team around. Soldado was also excellent. His link up play and holding up of the ball were superb. I didn't think he had it in him. The the assist was a great cross and that touch to Eriksen late in the first half was super. If our players would feed him more the goal tally would be up there as well!

Benteleb had a poor game. Seemed late to every ball and relied too much on the back pass. Kaboul and Verts generally strong over the 90 although shaky in parts. But a good combination looks like developing between these two. Chadli had a good solid game if unspectacular and a terrible attempted pass to Robbie when it was a tap in. What is it with our wide players inability to get in a decent cross or pass?

Lennon and Rose were terrible. I dont know what has happened to Azza. Does sweet feck all in every game and still gets picked. WTF?
 

ShelfSide18

Well-Known Member
Aug 23, 2006
8,386
3,122
In football the teams with the better players win the most games. Teams with lesser players but with great coaching give themselves a chance against teams with better players, particularly when the better players aren't coached to the same standard as the lesser players. Teams with the best players and best coaching, well they win league titles.

We are once again looking like a team with good -excellent individuals who are relying on just that, their own individual abilities rather than a coached, collective system that exploits these individual abilities and multiplies them to be greater than the sum of their parts. The opposite to Southampton really, who have a mixture of talented youngsters and middle of the road players who are flourishing under a great coach destined for a very big job one day.

Once again, we started terribly, this is no coincidence and it pisses me off no end that Sherwood seems so incredulous that it keeps on happening on his watch. Hint, Tim, it's your responsibility as coach to make sure your side are properly prepared psychologically, physically, tactically. You can rant and rave, chuck your gilet, play musical chairs from watching in the stands to the dugout and back again, but one day he might realise it's not all them on the pitch, it may well be him.

Defensively we played with the high line again, in theory a good idea with a target man like Lambert up front to deal with - push the threat well away from goal so second balls aren't dropping around our penalty area. This theory works if you pressure the ball and in the first half this was non existent and only some very tight line calls saved our blushes. Both our CBs also failed to recognise this too, consistently caught square when one should have dropped and covered - not least when Naughton made that horrific misjudgement for the first goal. It was a bad error, but the CBs should not escape the fact that one should have seen the danger, dropped and covered the space. It was noticeable that when Siggy replaced Dembele, our pressing was far better. Sig is an enigma yes, but he is always fairly diligent off the ball and his pressing seemed to spark others into life too, and that better pressure gave us more of the ball, and we settled into a reasonable if unremarkable period of pressure with Eriksen showing his qualities as a playmaker.

I'm not going to dwell too much on the previous regime as I ca't be arsed with that can of worms, but our ability to press the ball, keep the ball and show some semblance of organisation has regressed under Sherwood. I hope this is just the team in a period of transition to Sherwood's system and it's all looking a bit messy, but my faith in this is being tested every time I watch us at the moment. Perhaps Sherwood just isn't ready for a job of this magnitude just yet, he clearly has some talent in what he has achieved in our academy, but is it that terrible to suggest this may be too much too soon for the guy?

It was a lovely win, I went mad as anyone when Siggy popped that in, but bloody hell watching Spurs is arduous at the moment. I see no real strategy, pattern of play, evidence of any semblance of coached methodology taking shape on the pitch, just a collection of talented individuals crying out for some direction. We could do a lot worse than look at the guy in the opposite dugout.

Lloris 6 Default really, nothing bad, nothing great.

Naughton 5 Poor mistakes, but good mentality to come out and put in a decent second half.
Verthongen 6 Cover Kaboul if he pushes up, for the love of god.
Kaboul 6 Cover Verthongen if he pushes up, for the love of god.
Rose 5.5 Not very good at both ends. His crosses where he smashes it aimlessly are really irritating me.

Bentaleb 6 Slow start, got a bit more involved as the game progressed. He's 19 though, and being asked to play an unnatural role for him.
Dembele 5 Nothing offered whatsoever.

Eriksen 8 Classy game, getting better and better every game. I'd love him to play a central playmaker role in a 4-3-3 a la Iniesta.
Chadli 6 Quite quiet, was expecting more after the Benfica game.
Lennon 5 His workrate is impressive and almost certainly keeping him in the side at the moment as this another chapter in what is turning out to be his poorest season in an offensive sense yet. People defend his objective output in terms of goals/assists/involvement eg passes and point to the subjective in terms of his pace which pushes defences back, his potential threat in behind etc. Fair points yes, but he's not offering anything in either sense at the moment.

Soldado 7.5 Best game yet for us, top involvement and good combination play (tempted to say those little one touch combinations were a clearly worked pattern under AVB, but i'm coming perilously close to opening that worm can here).

Siggy 7 Good pressing, great hit.

I'm one of those few who actually wants Europa League next season, so a great result that will keep us right in the hunt for it, because as Bill Nick once said, if you're not in Europe, you're nothing...
 

Flashspur

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2012
6,883
9,069
Yes the lack of cohesiveness is awful under Sherwood. Pochettino's side by comparison, with a poorer bunch of players looked, well...like a team and played so fluidly in comparison. I wonder what Tim does on the training pitch with these lads?
 

JUSTINSIGNAL

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2008
16,020
48,699
Yes the lack of cohesiveness is awful under Sherwood. Pochettino's side by comparison, with a poorer bunch of players looked, well...like a team and played so fluidly in comparison. I wonder what Tim does on the training pitch with these lads?

Agree.

I hope Levy does to.
 

Tit&Ham

Well-Known Member
Aug 19, 2012
809
1,699
Wasn't me but hey, easily done:

Eriksen
Soldado
Chadli
Sigurdsson

Kaboul
Bentaleb
Lloris
Vertonghen

Townsend
Naughton
Rose

Dembele
Lennon

Anyone wondering why Lennon is below other poor performers; I literally typed the other 12 out THEN COULDN'T REMEMBER WHO OUR 13TH PLAYER WAS for about a minute.

Townsend should be at the bottom.. I was screaming at the television every minute he played...
 
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