Ratings vs Southampton

[yankspurs]

Do you think Schderlinen will be a good addition If we went for him?

Give me a Schneiderlin/Bentaleb CM partnership all day, every day.

 

[DaSpurs]

Do you think Schderlinen will be a good addition If we went for him?

Only if we get some more athletic and dynamic players ahead of them. The double pivot only works if the players ahead of them take on the onus of movement/attacking spark and if they can be quick and structured enough to reduce the amount of passing lanes around the double pivot. Until that happens, despite the quality of Schneiderlin, we'll still see a lot more static and blunted play in and near the opposition's final third and the double pivot will constantly be exposed/having to run down counterattacks already behind it.

 

[double0]

Give me a Schneiderlin/Bentaleb CM partnership all day, every day.

Mason out performed Schneiderlin again funny that.
What don't your particularly like about Mason?

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

Mason out performed Schneiderlin again funny that.
What don't your particularly like about Mason?

Maybe he simply isn't particularly great.

 

[double0]

Maybe he simply isn't particularly great.

Fair enough.

Still feel Mason gets a raw deal.

 

[fortworthspur]

for all the possession, its hard to argue our midfield played better, to my eye. we gave up more good chances and created few. playing two deep DMs hasnt helped us defensively all season. personally, I think its because they both play so deep leaving a great big space in front of them that Ericksen is woefully inadequate at patrolling.

 

[yankspurs]

Mason out performed Schneiderlin again funny that.
What don't your particularly like about Mason?

I like him, but I dont think he does nearly a good enough job to be a regular starter. He's okay going forward, but doesnt offer much at all defensively.

 

[St José Dominguez]

Can't remember what Davies was like at Swansea but he is so far away from being a suitable full back for a Poch team it's almost comical. Glad he made Rose up his game but I'm wondering if should sell Davies in summer.

Can't stand the Bentaleb and Mason combo. It just doesn't work for me and hope next season Mason is simply back up to Bentaleb who could be an absolute star for us.

Eriksen has been and always will be a 50/50 player. You have to have him in team cos how talented he is but he really deserves to be dropped. Not even sure it's competition, he's just one of most laid back players I've ever seen.

Slightly better Lamela performance and hope he starts every game until end of season. Nothing to lose doing that.

Kane is knackered and I'd almost consider playing Soldado rest of season just in case gets a few goals and can sell him. Slightly concerning idea of Kane going to U21s he is in desperate need of time off and got horrible feeling he might have a less productive start to next season.

 

[0-Tibsy-0]

Only if we get some more athletic and dynamic players ahead of them. The double pivot only works if the players ahead of them take on the onus of movement/attacking spark and if they can be quick and structured enough to reduce the amount of passing lanes around the double pivot. Until that happens, despite the quality of Schneiderlin, we'll still see a lot more static and blunted play in and near the opposition's final third and the double pivot will constantly be exposed/having to run down counterattacks already behind it.

The difference, although Mane did provide options, was two functioning fullbacks for the system in Clyne and Bertrand, and that Schneiderlin is still better positionally to cover the wing-backs (which is experience) than our CMs IMO.

 

[DaSpurs]

I like him, but I dont think he does nearly a good enough job to be a regular starter. He's okay going forward, but doesnt offer much at all defensively.

I believe it was posted that he had more tackles today than any other midfielder. I think it's a myth he's a defensive liability because he's not a big guy.

Frankly, I think the opposite, as I've hoped to see more of him going forward but think he does a decent job getting stuck in. The defensive issues are not in our CM pairing (although we could do with a more defensive option), it's further up the pitch, our CM's are just scrambling to have to try and mop up behind them.

 

[DaSpurs]

The difference, although Mane did provide options, was two functioning fullbacks for the system in Clyne and Bertrand, and that Schneiderlin is still better positionally to cover the wing-backs (which is experience) than our CMs IMO.

Oh no doubt, this is true. But I'm referring to where the greatest weakness is rather than comparing and contrasting each position, and for us, our greatest weakness is in the most forward positions. They're induce zero disorganization whatsoever in the opposition, pin nothing back, concede the ball too easily due to their predictability, are far too slow to cut out threats before they're already playing in behind them, and some of them simply are not tenacious enough defensively for a full, high line press. As a result, no matter who we have in behind them, we will be exposed.

 

[fortworthspur]

yup, the thing Mason does best is tackle, which partly explains his popularity.

 

[DaSpurs]

yup, the thing Mason does best is tackle, which partly explains his popularity.

Partially, and likely because he actually introduced some forward drive to our midfield after 2+ years of lethargic, horizontal, crab football displays.

I agree with those saying he's not quite starting material for Spurs, but frankly I think he's the best we've got. Unfortunately, between Mason and Bentaleb they lack both sufficient forward playmaking ability, and defensive reliability/awareness, both of which are compounded by the fact the forwards/attacking mids ahead of them are entirely and unequivocally incapable of disrupting the opposition's shape and ability to counter whatsoever.

 

[fortworthspur]

Partially, and likely because he actually introduced some forward drive to our midfield after 2+ years of lethargic, horizontal, crab football displays.

I agree with those saying he's not quite starting material for Spurs, but frankly I think he's the best we've got. Unfortunately, between Mason and Bentaleb they lack both sufficient forward playmaking ability, and defensive reliability/awareness, both of which are compounded by the fact the forwards/attacking mids ahead of them are entirely and unequivocally incapable of disrupting the opposition's shape and ability to counter whatsoever.

Im not convinced that Stambouli, Capoue or Dembele couldnt play in his spot as effectively. All are more experienced, and thats part of the problem. We are relying on Nabil, who is young, and Mason, who isnt but is inexperienced at the top level. I still have high hopes for Nabil. To me, Mason is somewhere between Jamie OHara and Michael Dawson. Throws himself about a lot and has a lot of passion, but technically limited. Thats not meant as an insult.

 

[DaSpurs]

Im not convinced that Stambouli, Capoue or Dembele couldnt play in his spot as effectively. All are more experienced, and thats part of the problem. We are relying on Nabil, who is young, and Mason, who isnt but is inexperienced at the top level. I still have high hopes for Nabil. To me, Mason is somewhere between Jamie OHara and Michael Dawson. Throws himself about a lot and has a lot of passion, but technically limited. Thats not meant as an insult.

As we've seen in the past, midfields with Bentaleb alongside any of those three have been very blunted in getting the ball forward quickly. Getting the ball forward quickly is quintessential to making the high press work in the first place, and as a result I think that's part of why Mason butted into the first XI picture so rapidly under Poch. I don't think the lack of experience is the downfall of our central midfield, but rather the fact that it's still not enough going forward and not enough defensively between them, and I don't think experience would necessarily solve those shortcomings.

 

[mpickard2087]

I think a point was fine, one of the teams we are battling out with and being away from home it is a tough ask.

I was a bit disappointed with certain parts of our performance though. We had a composed start and saw plenty of the ball, it was neat and tidy enough but I thought they showed a bit more cutting edge and threat than we did. This was maybe due to Eriksen and Kane having off days, but in the final third I thought they had the bigger impact over the 90 minutes. From early on the game was a bit too open for my liking, and I thought across the pitch we could have been better in our work off the ball. I thought we afforded them far too much time and space in certain areas, particularly out wide, and were outnumbered in midfield first half in particular, finally I would have liked to have seen us press higher up the pitch. It was there in patches, but not often enough for me.

I think the team deserves credit for battling back from behind twice, but I'm slightly concerned that Southampton looked a bit more of a polished outfit than us. They resembled a cohesive team, I still think of us as a group of individuals who haven't clicked yet. And that's both with and without the ball. Maybe next weekend...

Lloris - A few sharp saves to contribute towards our point.

Dier - I thought he made a good fist of playing out wide. He could have stopped a few more crosses in the first half but I thought he was solid enough in defence. A couple of assists as well with a good cross and a smart through ball which is a real bonus.

Fazio - The vast majority of the time he defends the penalty area well. Blocking, kicking or heading it away and having someone to do the nitty gritty stuff is useful. Drag him further up the pitch though or into wide areas and I'm still not convinced. And for all the useful work he does when the ball does get slung in to the penalty area, in the space of a fortnight he's failed to deal with Benteke and Pelle and this has led to goals, and this is meant to be his USP. He did ok, but needs to improve.

Vertonghen - A couple of ropey moments but did ok.

Davies - In his defence, it is probably not easy to come in after playing little football recently. However he's played a massive part in both goals conceded, and his errors were really avoidable. With Dier playing as a makeshift right back, it was imperative we got some width from the other side and this didn't really happen either. He cant really have any complaints about not being in the team currently.

Mason - The slip was unfortunate, the panicky back pass did lack composure though and he does have to share culpability for the ridiculous opening goal. On the whole though I thought he had a decent enough game. Was busy. involved and I counted numerous forward passes between the lines. He does try and force the play too much at times, but this was an acceptable display. I think some were far too harsh about the performance.

Bentaleb - Best player on the park, certainly in a Spurs shirt. Apart from a couple of minor sloppy bits of play I cant really recall him putting a foot wrong. Very composed, very impressive.

Lamela - Busy first half, got involved and capped that with the goal. It was good to see him get into heart of the penalty area and he got the reward for gambling and sticking himself in there. I thought he had less of an impact as the game went on (particularly towards the end where he saw very little ball) and first half he didn't track Bertrand very well though.

Eriksen - Hasn't been playing well for a while now. He isn't hiding out there but is not making any real impact and he has lost the tenacity that he had over the winter months. Looks like the tank is empty.

Chadli - This guy really is hard to sum up. This was another game where I thought he could have worked harder, he again went long spells out of the game and seeing little ball... And then all of a sudden he will put in a good piece of wing play, and for the second week running he's popped up and scored a goal. The run was sharp and so was the finish. I'd probably experiment with him in the No.9 role before the end of the season, for me he shows more of a strikers instinct than that of a wide player/midfielder.

Kane - Largely anonymous and struggled to make an impact.


The referee was also very poor in my opinion. Inconsistent in what he gave as fouls, missed a heap of stuff (such as Southampton players 'bumping' the man who was heading the ball on frequent occasions) and fell for Mane's diving about 127,000 times.

 

[fortworthspur]

I see two issues - one of the back two has to take more responsibility going forward, and neither has. thats a maturity thing. I can see Nabil growing into such a player, Mason not so much. the other issue is, as mentioned, Ericksen cant play in the 10 spot in the prem. or wont.

Either way, the three we have as a unit leaves a lot to be desired. If we are going to insist on a Bents-Mason pairing, put Dembele up top or even try Lamela there as others have suggested. He certainly will work harder in possession than ericksen.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

At the start of the season we had Bentaleb and Capoue and everything was Bentaleb's fault. Then we had Capoue and Mason and everything became Capoue's fault, now we have Mason and Bentaleb and it's all Mason's fault.

Now, both these guys are young and having their first proper season. They aren't getting everything right, and Mason when he first came in was tearing around like a twit trying to do too much, and his contribution creatively is still a bit disappointing but have a look around the EPL and pick out all the better CM's playing in CM2's that are defensively brilliant and offensively clever.

In my humble opinion, while none of them are flawless, they are three very decent CM footballers who all offer a very good balance of tenacity and football ability.

AS @DaSpurs said, the problem really isn't any of those three, it's what's going on around them. The full backs bomb on and one of them (Rose) hasn't always bombed back quite as quickly, and is poor at stopping crosses coming in, the other has a penchant for giving the ball away just as everyone has bombed on with him.

Our manager has failed to get the attacking players he keeps picking to work as a cohesive defensive unit, so we had Townsend and Chadli for big chunks of the season ambling about, giving the ball away carelessly and standing around watching instead of trying to get it back. Eriksen has improved drastically without the ball but once Townsend and Chadli came back in and the pressing dropped off, he eased up too. As has Kane lately as well.

This pulls the two CM's all over the place. There is only so thin you can spread two CM's. Pochettino has got to get those around the CM's understanding and doing what they are supposed to do with and without the ball or it doesn't matter who we play there - we could play Matic and fucking Schniederlin and they'd still be chasing their tails most of the game whilst Chadli and Co play hide and seek.

 

[DaSpurs]

I see two issues - one of the back two has to take more responsibility going forward, and neither has. thats a maturity thing. I can see Nabil growing into such a player, Mason not so much. the other issue is, as mentioned, Ericksen cant play in the 10 spot in the prem. or wont.

Either way, the three we have as a unit leaves a lot to be desired. If we are going to insist on a Bents-Mason pairing, put Dembele up top or even try Lamela there as others have suggested. He certainly will work harder in possession than ericksen.

Nabil's lack of going forward isn't lack of experience, he's just not a component of the double pivot and he also doesn't have the agility to work tight spaces. He's very athletic, but he doesn't have quite the agility required to drive through tight spaces and do work in the box. I'm not sure Mason does either despite not being quite as big, honestly.

Eriksen can do it, he just can't do it in the congested system we play in. Dembele makes it work because he's big enough to shield the ball and play it horizontally from there, but he provides no incisive passing. The ultimate solution for our setup is a player who is athletic and dynamic enough to create his own space at the 10 spot and then go on to pick the dangerous pass, or even have a go on goal himself. Eriksen just cannot create his own space, and so he suffers from us shoving him right up against the holding mids of the opposition.

 

[DaSpurs]

This pulls the two CM's all over the place. There is only so thin you can spread two CM's. Pochettino has got to get those around the CM's understanding and doing what they are supposed to do with and without the ball or it doesn't matter who we play there - we could play Matic and fucking Schniederlin and they'd still be chasing their tails most of the game whilst Chadli and Co play hide and seek.

Absolutely spot on.