Ratings vs Sunderland

[sloth]

I did mention it in my ratings. A strange looking selection that actually worked out quite well when we had the ball, albeit with the caveat that we were playing a poor team and even then they had a few times where they got into an enormous amount of space between our defence and midfield. When we had the ball he almost always recycled it well and for once we had a player knocking passes about that were in front of the man so he could move onto it and push forward. What also helps him in that role is that he can pass the ball with both feet and is comfortable going/moving both left and right with the ball, it doesn't half open up the field of play. He then also had the power and ability to drive forward with the ball, if the chance presents itself.

It was a very interesting selection that worked well. Wouldn't mind seeing him play there again in all truth. I'd prefer it to be with a bit more defensive cover in the midfield because obviously this side of his game needs a lot of work. He's got some of the tools to play that role on a longer term basis, but we shall see...

61 passes, 90% accuracy, 4 key passes, one assist, and a couple of superb through-balls. Look at the average position: http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/72...Premier-League-2013-2014-Tottenham-Sunderland and it's just ahead of the spot in the centre circle. Along with Eriksen and Ade as responsible as any for our improved tempo imo.

 

[sloth]

I think by and large our movement off the ball was once again quite poor. I actually noticed several times - and meant to mention it - people would pass and then not move, or move into a position to receive a ball, then if the ball didn't arrive they would not think, adjust and move a second time or third time to make new angles or opportunities they would just stand there and think fuck it I've moved once already I'm not moving again, find someone else.

I think all that happened last night was we played a team so abjectly bad and so poor off the ball compared to the last three we've played (Arse, Southampton, Liv) it made us look better at passing.

Please watch it again BC. Same goes for anyone else who can be bothered. And if you had them on before, please take off your whatever the opposite of rose-tinted spectacles is (shit tinted ones?) and give an honest appraisal. Fair enough if you're down on the performance then, I'll still think you're wrong, but I'll accept you watched it again with your blood cool.

 

[kungfugrip]

Harry did that with Modric, he left and we were rudderless, build a collective.

Modric left and the next season we achieved our highest points tally ever in the league.

 

[whitechina]

Ade
Eriksen
Kane
Paulinho
Naughton
Chadli
Lloris
Chiriches
Kaboul
Rose
Lennon

 

[Riandor]

Eriksen.

but well done to:
Ade, Kane & Naughton.

The rest, see me after class.

 

[talkshowhost86]

I can't remember it all, and was watching on quite a small screen, but:

Lloris - 6 - Didn't have a lot to do but did most of it well. Put Chiriches in trouble unnecessarily but should have been dealt with.

Naughton - 7 - Not bad. Looks a much better player in his proper position.

Kaboul - 6 - Still doesn't look at his commanding best. Hope he gets a full pre-season so we can see him back in form next year.

Chiriches - 5 - Didn't do too much else wrong, and I like it when he gets on the ball, but stupid stupid mistake.

Rose - 5 - Looked dangerous going forwards in the first half but delivered very little. His crossing was woeful and his defending was poor again.

Lennon - 5 - How many more chances can we give him? Simply has no end product.

Paulinho - 7 - Looked good considering he has to be the more defensive midfielder. Given a more free role he'll be brilliant for us.

Chadli - 7 - Like Paulinho looked good in an unfamiliar position, particularly in the first half. Really starting to like him now.

Eriksen - 9 - Oozed class all night. Popped up everywhere and was at the heart of everything we did. Build our team around him.

Adebayor - 9 - Excellent once again. Linked play brilliantly and scored twice again.

Kane - 7.5 - Much better from him and really glad he got his goal. Looked assured on the ball and got into some great positions. Probably the most promise we've seen from him up till now by far.

 

[Mr Pink]

Only getting round to doing these now!


Lloris 6 little to do, one decent save, but played a part in the goal although wasn't the main culprit. Should of just hoofed it though when he had the chance but its a catalog of errors really.

Naughton 6.5 pretty decent all round, nice effort when we worked it from the corner to him.

Kaboul 6.5 starting to get there I think, its to be expected that it would take some time to shed the rustiness. I know Sunderland didn't offer too much but I thought he looked a bit sharper last night.

Chiriches 6 like his style and do think he will get even better in time. obviously the cross field give away was the final bullet in a catalog of errors. we've made way too many individual mistakes this season and its something that we need to rectify fast for next season.

Rose 5.5 a real mixed bag I thought but leaning more towards poor. thought he generally attacked better than he defended last night, although the easy cushioned ball to release Eriksen was on and he messed it right up, overall I don't think he's going to be good enough for us as a first choice.

Lennon 6 I don't think he was that bad, yes he could of released the ball a split second quicker for the pull back to Kane but he clipped in a beauty which Eriksen nearly got on the end of. Was involved in a lot of our decent approach play, ok he wasn't doing quite enough in terms of really getting at them but he worked reasonably hard overall.

Chadli 6.5 pretty good overall, considering its an unfamiliar position. I think he's really came on in the last few weeks, very encouraging for next season. Strength, technique, touch, powerful shot....a really good blend of attributes. Another one who I think will be very good for us next season.

Paulinho 6.5 looked sharper than usual and that was a pretty competent display considering the make up of our midfield. Everybody bemoaned it before the game but Sherwood was justified in the end, we were very comfortable really - bar a five minute wobble at the start of the second half. Their goal came about as an individual error, nothing to do with the way we were set up.

Eriksen 8.5 MOTM two assists and a goal, an exceptionally influential performance. The thing that I enjoyed the most, wasn't the two crosses or the goal, it was a pass he hit in the first half...and he just pinged out to the right wing...quick in mind, quick in technique..and bang we were off. That's the sort of ball we've lacked all season, and why I always bemoaned how slowly we moved the ball which is really why we struggled in front of goal for so long in the first half of the season. Moving the ball slower is a lot easier to defend against. What a performance though, everything he did was measured and purposeful sprinkled with real class.

Adebayor 7.5 very good effort from Adebayor, and two goals to show for it. Thought he was excellent in the second half, floating all over the place and helping to link the play. Should of squared it to Kane though.

Kane 7 impressed me for the most part tonight, took his goal well but should of buried that chance in the first half although he was getting closed down pretty quick. Also should of squared for Adebayor. All in all though, I thought he was effective and tidy in his play and he'll get that composure with more experience and confidence.


Sig - another goal, well done.
Townsend - still a long way from being convinced, as I've always been.

 

[fortworthspur]

Interestingly, Schweinsteiger was a winger until LVG took over Bayern and he turned him into a CM. If LVG takes over us, it wouldn't surprise me if he did the same.

he's physically strong enough to do the job. anyway, he just looks like a footballer to me the last few weeks.

 

[the_king]

Christian Eriksen fan boy in the house!

Ade and Kane looked good together, the rest, Ok.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I watched the whole match waiting for him to start nausing it up. My thinking was that in the past Rose has looked unfit as the match goes on, so perhaps all the shit play came in the last quarter or something, but no, it was an all round good showing from him, a clear 7 out of 10. Yes, his performance wasn't error free that is correct, but neither was Eriksen's or anyone's.

Which brings me to the rest of this thread, I can't believe the negativity from some. Yes it was against sunderland, but for most of the match they were competing, however as A&C said in his succinct and insightful ysis, some of our play was simply excellent, we had rhythmn and tempo, there was cutting edge and genuine goal scoring opportunities throughout. We played right through the 90 minutes, and the only sticky patch was the part after they went ahead. We were comfortable on and off the ball the four defenders were very good. Chadli in the holding role (who'd have played him there btw?) was calmness personified, and he played a couple of glorious through-balls to boot. Even Lennon was good. Apart from eriksen and Ade being generally superb, my favourite performance of the night came from Kane, who's clever positioning, awareness of the offside trap and good finishing got him one and a half goals (the half for the one Ade tapped in), and all the while he managed to occupy two CBs giving Ade the licence to go and make the difference elsewhere. for me the most encouraging performance of recent times and confirms me in my huge optimism for next season, whoever's in charge.

Whilst I accept that I am finding enthusiasm hard to galvanise right now and said and qualified my post from the get go with that caveat, I really don't think you could describe that as a totally wonderful performance, and I do think you have to take into account the abjectly piss poor nature of the opposition. We played harder opposition in the group stages of the Europa than that. That said it was a good performance overall with some good individual performances therein. I think it was gilded somewhatwith their late collapse/our late flourish.

I don't think I've got the heart to watch it again, but I reckon both camps (the "it's a wonderful life" mob and the "it's all fucking black" mob) could both find plenty to support each other's cases. I made a mental note several times of players making a move and if not receiving the ball just giving up. But then there was also some decent football played as well. How many actual clear cut cut chances were created from deliberate actions though ? I genuinely can't remember that many. By that I mean guy has ball, guy makes deliberate move, guy with ball sees move and plays deliberate incisive pass to him and this results in clear cut chance.

Two goals came from crosses to good areas with strikers making good runs to attack the crosses, but not incisive through balls or interplay involved. One was from a corner, one from a long shot that took a deflection and that leaves Adebayor's second which came initially from a mistake by Brown a good piece of individual play by Kane who then made a poor choice and execution but a mistake by the keeper let in Adebayor to tap in.

That's fine, all teams will score goals like this, but there still wasn't too much actual incisiveness or clever interplay in the final third IMO. Lots of hustle and bustle, lots of ball up and around that area, some good "situations" (like the sweet little ball Eriksen played inside for Lennon) but lots of the usual wastage IMO. Just this time there was also some goals (as described) as well as the wastage.

When you compare the attacking contribution of the full backs for every team above us to the contribution ours make the disparity I believe is big, and I include Walker in that. Even last night I saw Rose giving the ball away and then just trotting and gradually slowing to a walk back as they countered. You may not have counted that as a mistake, but I call it diabolical (if I can find the moment I'll give you the minute it occurred).

And despite the scoreline, I think the idea of playing Chadli and Paulinho as a CM2 was nuts. If it happens more often and it turns out to be regularly effective I will have to eat humble pie, but what I cannot fathom is the logic before the game of thinking this would be good. I don't think either were tested properly but would bet that under sterner examination - by any team in the EPL - that CM2 would have looked very precarious.

Their goal came from some stupid play by Lloris and mostly Chiriches, but watch what Chadli and Paulinho are doing when we have the initial throw. The pair of them are just walking, making no effort to get back down that end of the pitch to provide options or outlets.

 

[JimmyG2]

Good win against a poor team. We gave them a start but they still never threatened apart from 10 minutes
in the second half before Eriksen's goal. Is Levy getting nervy. Suppose Timothy wins all his last games.

Lloris.........6.....Mostly an onlooker. Poor ahead of their goal.
Naughton..6.....OK. a bit hit and miss at times going forward
Chiriches....7....From the 'Give the opposition a chance' school. Like him.
Kaboul.......6....Not going to be the force we once thought I'm afraid.
Rose..........5....Unnecessary fouls and poor use of the ball when well placed.
Bentaleb....10...Wadya mean he wasn't playing. Of course he was.
Chadli........7.....Could be important next season.
Paulinho.....7....Class shows but a bit ineffectivelast night
Eriksen.......9....Excellent all round last night.
Lennon.......5....Too quick for his brain mostly.
Kane..........7.....Good performance.With a little more sharpness in the box he could have had 3.
Adebayor...8....Working like a proper footballer. Real class act. Owes Kane a pint or two.

Siggy...........has that priceless goalscoring knack.
Townsend....Worse than Lennon. Just about sums him up. Trying much too hard.

 

[CheeseGromit]

Hard to give a balanced assessment due to Sunderlands performance. It would have been hard to look bad in that game

I think Sunderland would have contrived to lose the game even if we had not turned up. They are as a poor a prem league team have sen in many a long year.

Eriksen is really now getting to grips with the league and was the MoM.
Ade played everywhere and i would nt have been surprised to see him swop with Hugo
Pleased for Kane that he scored and it will have given him confidence.
Chadli and Paulinho looked fine but I dont know of any other team I would play that paring against.

You can only beat what is in front of you. It must be a nightmare for Gus

 

[Bus-Conductor]

The match was on too late for me here in India,

You working in a quant call centre now Sloth ?

People who say Sherwood doesn't do tactics have got it wrong, Harry didn't do tactics, or at least not the finer points of tactics, TS on the other hand, if anything, does too many tactics, and once again he got experimental on us in this match by playing in this first half what at first sight might have been a 442 diamond, but turning it into something else with the players he chose for each position.

I completely agree about TS doing too much tactics, but don't know anyone who has said he doesn't do tactics ?

 

[sloth]

Whilst I accept that I am finding enthusiasm hard to galvanise right now and said and qualified my post from the get go with that caveat, I really don't think you could describe that as a totally wonderful performance, and I do think you have to take into account the abjectly piss poor nature of the opposition. We played harder opposition in the group stages of the Europa than that. That said it was a good performance overall with some good individual performances therein. I think it was gilded somewhatwith their late collapse/our late flourish.

I don't think I've got the heart to watch it again, but I reckon both camps (the "it's a wonderful life" mob and the "it's all fucking black" mob) could both find plenty to support each other's cases. I made a mental note several times of players making a move and if not receiving the ball just giving up. But then there was also some decent football played as well. How many actual clear cut cut chances were created from deliberate actions though ? I genuinely can't remember that many. By that I mean guy has ball, guy makes deliberate move, guy with ball sees move and plays deliberate incisive pass to him and this results in clear cut chance.

Two goals came from crosses to good areas with strikers making good runs to attack the crosses, but not incisive through balls or interplay involved. One was from a corner, one from a long shot that took a deflection and that leaves Adebayor's second which came initially from a mistake by Brown a good piece of individual play by Kane who then made a poor choice and execution but a mistake by the keeper let in Adebayor to tap in.

That's fine, all teams will score goals like this, but there still wasn't too much actual incisiveness or clever interplay in the final third IMO. Lots of hustle and bustle, lots of ball up and around that area, some good "situations" (like the sweet little ball Eriksen played inside for Lennon) but lots of the usual wastage IMO. Just this time there was also some goals (as described) as well as the wastage.

When you compare the attacking contribution of the full backs for every team above us to the contribution ours make the disparity I believe is big, and I include Walker in that. Even last night I saw Rose giving the ball away and then just trotting and gradually slowing to a walk back as they countered. You may not have counted that as a mistake, but I call it diabolical (if I can find the moment I'll give you the minute it occurred).

And despite the scoreline, I think the idea of playing Chadli and Paulinho as a CM2 was nuts. If it happens more often and it turns out to be regularly effective I will have to eat humble pie, but what I cannot fathom is the logic before the game of thinking this would be good. I don't think either were tested properly but would bet that under sterner examination - by any team in the EPL - that CM2 would have looked very precarious.

Their goal came from some stupid play by Lloris and mostly Chiriches, but watch what Chadli and Paulinho are doing when we have the initial throw. The pair of them are just walking, making no effort to get back down that end of the pitch to provide options or outlets.

All I can say is watch it again BC. Here's a link to where you can watch the whole match without having to download it: http://livefootballvideo.com/fullmatch/england/premier-league/tottenham-hotspur-vs-sunderland-3 I know it's a phaff, but you can even watch it in 15 minute chunks or whatever over the next couple of days.

By the way, I'm not saying it was a stupendous performance, or anywhere close, but no player was less than a 7 and maybe Ade and Eriksen got a 9, what made it pleasing for me was the contrast with the recent dross, the emergence of Kane was also a massive plus, and he in particular is one of the reasons I'd like you to watch again, for a young man on his debut it was an accomplished showing as satisfying for his off the ball stuff where at times, imo, his clever positioning and threat managed to occupy both their CBs, as for his one and a half goals.

On your Chadli point, perhaps you're right on that, but this game is also about horses for courses, and TS obviously assessed that this set up had a good chance against Sunderland, and as much as he was at fault for getting it wrong against Liverpool last week, so he should be given credit for getting it right against Sunderland on Monday. One other point, when you're still learning about the quality of your horses and you're in a season with not much left to play for then this is your chance to find out more, against Liverpool, and against Sunderland, for different reasons he and whoever our next coach is, will have learned something about our players.

Anyway, don't agree, fine, but if you can watch it again.

You working in a quant call centre now Sloth ?

Ha ha! Nope, just living the life BC, just living the life!!!

 

[Tit&Ham]

Getting more positive about next season now. Some players are actually settling in

Two observations that hasn't been covered to much yet:
Chadli.
Allthough I'd have to watch the game again to make a proper assessment on his game I felt at times he looked like Dembele, except he has an end game. Sliding along the pitch with great technique, massive strength but also assist, deep runs and a very good shot to his game. Not saying he played splendid, but grew in this role throughout the game. He Could be perfect in a cm3? Maybe we shouldn't see him as a winger anymore? Anyway, I have publicly rated him for weeks now and I feel it is justifiable now

Chiriches.
Yes he made an awful error, and Even made some others that was not very good and should not receive a very good rating. HOWEVER, I feel he has the most potential of all our CBs. He has a little more pace than the others, falls down a bit When no pressure on the ball, very good tacklings, and offensively makes good passes and takes the ball with him when the chance present itself.

Also a third thing. Ade is such a classy footballer. He almost shouldn't be a striker cause the only bad quality he has is shooting. He is so calm with the ball, strong, great technique and superfast When he Could be bothered. Just a joy to watch sometimes..

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Ha ha! Nope, just living the life BC, just living the life!!!

You tuned in and dropped out ?

You wearing a sarong right now ?

 

[sloth]

You tuned in and dropped out ?

You wearing a sarong right now ?

That kind of thing!!! Sitting in a beach bar actually, chatting to my maths whizz kid over Skype, but then got to go and get the kids from nursery and school respectively! It's a hard life mate, it's a hard life...

 

[Firsttouch]

We should be keeping Kyle Naughton as he is a right back (backup) and has shown he is actually not a bad deputy, he would hopefully be third or fourth choice in terms of left back.

Rose is crap and not only at defending but also going forward....heaven forbid he goes forward though and ruins an attack with his inept ability because fuck me someone better have been covering as he won't be getting back to help.... No he will gently jog back into position. I don't think I have seen a worse Left back here. I really don't like him as a footballer or his attitude, he thinks he deserves first team football and doesn't even have to work hard to keep it. He is just lucky that his only competition for a first team place consists of a young left back with no experience, a right back with not much experience and a centre back who has made it abundantly clear he doesn't want to play there!

Quite frankly I see more promise in Zeki and would prefer he starts more games.

Come on bro he's not half as bad as your making out..... I get that he still needs fine tuning, decent prospect in my opinion.

Also does anyone remember when a young Benny started out and was well out of his depth?? He did not turn out too bad a player!

 

[Strikeb4ck]

Come on bro he's not half as bad as your making out..... I get that he still needs fine tuning, decent prospect in my opinion.

Also does anyone remember when a young Benny started out and was well out of his depth?? He did not turn out too bad a player!

Rose is a scapegoat on this site. Much like Naughton was all season, I've been banging the drum saying he's really not that bad at all, lo and behold he gets a spell at RB and now people agree with me. Rose is also not that bad...he needs to drastically improve his crossing, once he does that he will have an end product for all the good positions he gets himself into. He is pretty good in the tackle, fast, strong. Has the physical attributes, needs to find an end ball (because if there's one thing that pisses supporters off, it's spurning a chance to create/score something). We also need to get a 2nd LB so he has competition and will work hard, he is a very determined player when he wants to be. This site always needs a scapegoat though, flavor of the month is Rose.

 

[Phantom]

Come on bro he's not half as bad as your making out..... I get that he still needs fine tuning, decent prospect in my opinion.

Also does anyone remember when a young Benny started out and was well out of his depth?? He did not turn out too bad a player!

He is nearly 24 I think he should be better than a prospect right now. I really don't rate him I'm sorry I just don't, the left back position has to be top priority in this summers window. If it was just "fine tuning" of his competence at left back then fine. But it isn't it is his attitude as well, both in relation to getting back after an attack breaks down and in terms of his inflated opinion of his own ability. I don't think he will be willing to fight for his position given comments in the past, he wants to be playing week in week out which is fair enough. Just don't think he is good enough to do it here.

Rose is a scapegoat on this site. Much like Naughton was all season, I've been banging the drum saying he's really not that bad at all, lo and behold he gets a spell at RB and now people agree with me. Rose is also not that bad...he needs to drastically improve his crossing, once he does that he will have an end product for all the good positions he gets himself into. He is pretty good in the tackle, fast, strong. Has the physical attributes, needs to find an end ball (because if there's one thing that pisses supporters off, it's spurning a chance to create/score something). We also need to get a 2nd LB so he has competition and will work hard, he is a very determined player when he wants to be. This site always needs a scapegoat though, flavor of the month is Rose.

I have never personally had a scapegoat I am still confident all of our signings will come good except Capoue but that is more to do with the abundance of CMs we have. Siggy? I like him. Lennon? fan of his work rate just wish his confidence would return. Jenas? I was always a fan of his, yeah sure he never developed into the player he promised he would but he was a good player and a big part of several of our best PL finishes.

Rose for me isn't a scapegoat I honestly do not feel we are secure at the back with him playing. He is quick I give you that but I don't see him reading the game very well, he gives too many fouls away and as mentioned before lazy.

And by the way I didn't think Rose had a bad game on Monday (although he was too lazy in getting back on a couple of occasions) I was merely responding to a post suggesting he is the left back we should keep, which is fine if we keep him as backup!

EDIT: I should add that I hope that with time he proves me wrong but I just don't see it. As I have said before I think he was transformed into a left back because we were in dire need of someone to play there as well as Benny, rather than him showing any promise for the position.