Redknapp on signing Vieria and Suarez for Tottenham

[sloth]

But we're talking about the January transfer window when we re-signed Defoe/Keane, signed Palacios, Chimbonda etc. We had bought Bale the season before and now all of a sudden we tried to get anyone in the continent to try and offer for him and nobody did? Not for me. Doesn't stack.

This isn't a character assassination of Redknapp, and if it is can we use better examples than fucktards like Taarabt and GDS please, both of them never amounted to anything, Taarabt is a pony, and GDS is a middle of the road Spanish league footballer.

We all know you hate him and give him nothing, which is fine, but I'm questioning Jol here and saying that whichever way you want to look at the Redknapp/Bale saga, the waters are incredibly muddy.

Why would Jol lie? It's not a hatchet job piece on Levy, far from it, nor on Redknapp, nor does it make him look better or worse, there's basically nothing self-servig in saying what he said, nor which could be construed as settling of scores, all it is is interesting. remember as well that this was straight after the period where we'd won 2 pts in 8 games under Ramos, not to mention the dreadful run-in from the previous season post the League Cup win.

If we look at the bare facts Redknapp comes in at the beginning of November, wins a few on the spin then BAE get's suspended, he gives Bale his first start and he's the stand-out bad performer in Harry's first defeat, away to Fulham, next game Bale's back on the bench and we win, next game he brings Bale on at 70 minutes, but we still lose at home, only two games we've lost under Harry, in a streak of wins, are the only two games Bale's got on the pitch, Bale doesn't get a look in for the next five, and then BAE's dismissed for a straight red against West Brom, Bale get's 15 mins in a game we lost. Next game Bale plays 90 against Wigan, and we lose, we're into the Jan transfer window now, when Jol says he was offered him. Next up Portsmouth at home, we're losing 0-1 when Bale's subbed off for Bentley, we go on to draw. BAE's back in the side and Bale's been moved forwards, but we lose our next game against Utd, Bale's subbed off for Taraabt. The window's almost closed. We win the next game against Stoke, but Bale doesn't play. Last day of the window, we lose to Bolton, Bale doesn't play.

It seems to me that Redknapp didn't fancy him, and there's no reason to think Jol would lie, therefore, I think we take it as the basic truth, bar some wriggle room for minor embellishments.

 

[jackson]

Listen you keep up the vendetta/witch hunt of a ex manager im sure your proud of yourself.

Vendetta/Witch Hunt??? Not sure where you get that from....

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Why would Jol lie? It's not a hatchet job piece on Levy, far from it, nor on Redknapp, nor does it make him look better or worse, there's basically nothing self-servig in saying what he said, nor which could be construed as settling of scores, all it is is interesting. remember as well that this was straight after the period where we'd won 2 pts in 8 games under Ramos, not to mention the dreadful run-in from the previous season post the League Cup win.

If we look at the bare facts Redknapp comes in at the beginning of November, wins a few on the spin then BAE get's suspended, he gives Bale his first start and he's the stand-out bad performer in Harry's first defeat, away to Fulham, next game Bale's back on the bench and we win, next game he brings Bale on at 70 minutes, but we still lose at home, only two games we've lost under Harry, in a streak of wins, are the only two games Bale's got on the pitch, Bale doesn't get a look in for the next five, and then BAE's dismissed for a straight red against West Brom, Bale get's 15 mins in a game we lost. Next game Bale plays 90 against Wigan, and we lose, we're into the Jan transfer window now, when Jol says he was offered him. Next up Portsmouth at home, we're losing 0-1 when Bale's subbed off for Bentley, we go on to draw. BAE's back in the side and Bale's been moved forwards, but we lose our next game against Utd, Bale's subbed off for Taraabt. The window's almost closed. We win the next game against Stoke, but Bale doesn't play. Last day of the window, we lose to Bolton, Bale doesn't play.

It seems to me that Redknapp didn't fancy him, and there's no reason to think Jol would lie, therefore, I think we take it as the basic truth, bar some wriggle room for minor embellishments.

Yeah I'm not really talking about Redknapp in this instance, Jol doesn't mention him, he mentions that Levy said he couldn't have him on loan. What I'm struggling with, is the notion that THFC as whole, struggled to command £5-6m, for a player so sought after who was no older than 19 (?) that they had to offer him across the continent and still failed to get rid. It's nothing to do with whether I believe Redknapp or whatever, I don't believe that we couldn't sell him, which in turn is what makes me doubt whether we actually tried to get rid of him, you get me?

Reading the Jol comments, what I believe (could be wrong obviously) is that Bale wasn't getting much of a game, some agent or scout suggests to Jol that he might be available, Jol/Hamburg calls Levy and asks the question, Levy says no. If I'm honest, similar to what I think happened with the Forest/Birmingham link. Agent/scout talk about who might or might not be available.

As you alluded to, managers aren't adverse to lying to make themselves look better, and Jol could be doing just that, he says everything is fine with Levy but that doesn't really sit right either, considering he was sacked in the middle of a match effectively.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Yeah I'm not really talking about Redknapp in this instance, Jol doesn't mention him, he mentions that Levy said he couldn't have him on loan. What I'm struggling with, is the notion that THFC as whole, struggled to command £5-6m, for a player so sought after who was no older than 19 (?) that they had to offer him across the continent and still failed to get rid. It's nothing to do with whether I believe Redknapp or whatever, I don't believe that we couldn't sell him, which in turn is what makes me doubt whether we actually tried to get rid of him, you get me?

Reading the Jol comments, what I believe (could be wrong obviously) is that Bale wasn't getting much of a game, some agent or scout suggests to Jol that he might be available, Jol/Hamburg calls Levy and asks the question, Levy says no. If I'm honest, similar to what I think happened with the Forest/Birmingham link. Agent/scout talk about who might or might not be available.

As you alluded to, managers aren't adverse to lying to make themselves look better, and Jol could be doing just that, he says everything is fine with Levy but that doesn't really sit right either, considering he was sacked in the middle of a match effectively.

I don't get why that's so hard to imagine. 19yo's who have been deemed to have flopped (which Bale very much had at that point in Redknapp's opinion) are hardly going to command big fees just because 2 years prior ManU may have sniffed them (and decided not to pay a few mil then). Look how much trouble we had shifting proven EPL players for the same type of money.

The most telling quote from Redknapp was the one where he said "it would have scared me to sell Bale" talking about that january window when asked about it by a journo.

Why would you say it like that ? It doesn't make sense. What he means is it scared him how close he came to selling/loaning out Bale.

There is absolutely no doubt IMO that Redknapp definitely considered offloading Bale and if circumstances had contrived to work out differently (like Ekotto not getting injured) it may well have happened.

This is the same bullshitter who claimed "Modric couldn't get a game before I got here".

 

[Coyboy]

But if Ekotto weren't injured, he would have gone to the ACN.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

I don't get why that's so hard to imagine. 19yo's who have been deemed to have flopped (which Bale very much had at that point in Redknapp's opinion) are hardly going to command big fees just because 2 years prior ManU may have sniffed them (and decided not to pay a few mil then). Look how much trouble we had shifting proven EPL players for the same type of money.

The most telling quote from Redknapp was the one where he said "it would have scared me to sell Bale" talking about that january window when asked about it by a journo.

Why would you say it like that ? It doesn't make sense. What he means is it scared him how close he came to selling/loaning out Bale.

There is absolutely no doubt IMO that Redknapp definitely considered offloading Bale and if circumstances had contrived to work out differently (like Ekotto not getting injured) it may well have happened.

This is the same bullshitter who claimed "Modric couldn't get a game before I got here".

So Redknapp came in the November, decided Bale was a flop by January, and we offered him to everyone and their mother but couldn't find a buyer?

Nah mate.

And again, for the 300th time, you are forgetting that regardless of the injury that Ekotto sustained, Bale was going to get a shot while he was at the ACN. People want to forget that bit, am sure there's a Daily Mail article with as much sway as the Alex McCleish one that says so if you look hard enough.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

But if Ekotto weren't injured, he would have gone to the ACN.

I think I've mentioned that 301 times in other threads, but it never washes.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

So Redknapp came in the November, decided Bale was a flop by January, and we offered him to everyone and their mother but couldn't find a buyer?

Nah mate.

And again, for the 300th time, you are forgetting that regardless of the injury that Ekotto sustained, Bale was going to get a shot while he was at the ACN. People want to forget that bit, am sure there's a Daily Mail article with as much sway as the Alex McCleish one that says so if you look hard enough.

There wasn't an ACN the (Redknapp's) first January window (2009). That is not the window I'm talking about.


The next January window (2010) there was a ACN, maybe that is one of the factors as to why any move was curtailed, but it doesn't mean Redknapp wasn't mooting the idea around (after all he wasn't playing Bale much at all until that point because he was "soft" and "jinxed"), maybe with the idea of doing a bit of wheeler dealing and getting someone less soft and jinxedin to cover Ekotto ? Hardly takes much believing based on all we know and others have said.

 

[Coyboy]

No he wasn't playing Bale because Ekotto was on good form and Bale had played against Everton a month or so before and had an absolute stinker.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

So Redknapp came in the November, decided Bale was a flop by January

And, for the record, this is pretty much his MO, and what he did when he arrived at QPR for example. Claimed every **** anyone else had bought was a wanker, shifted a few in various ways (including loans) and is now saddled with more wankers than ever.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

No he wasn't playing Bale because Ekotto was on good form and Bale had played against Everton a month or so before and had an absolute stinker.

Making the possibility that he would consider swapping him for another body more plausible no ?

 

[Coyboy]

Making the possibility that he would consider swapping him for another body more plausible no ?

Possibly plausible but hardly iron clad proof just supposition and conjecture; not to mention irrelevant.

You're just taking stabs in the dark and misrepresenting things.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Possibly plausible but hardly iron clad proof just supposition and conjecture; not to mention irrelevant.

You're just taking stabs in the dark and misrepresenting things.

I tell you what, just to save us 17 posts each of pithy bitching can you you just state what your opinion of this is (i.e. do you think Redknapp entertained the idea of loaning or selling Bale or not) and what cast iron proof you have to support it ?

 

[Spurs_Bear]

There wasn't an ACN the (Redknapp's) first January window (2009). That is not the window I'm talking about.


The next January window (2010) there was a ACN, maybe that is one of the factors as to why any move was curtailed, but it doesn't mean Redknapp wasn't mooting the idea around (after all he wasn't playing Bale much at all until that point because he was "soft" and "jinxed"), maybe with the idea of doing a bit of wheeler dealing and getting someone less soft and jinxedin to cover Ekotto ? Hardly takes much believing based on all we know and others have said.

So hang on, now you're hanging your hat on this Jol thing? Which he hasn't even mentioned Redknapp? Do you not think there could be an ounce of truth in the situation that I put forward.

Of course not.

The sheer thought of us offering Bale around every club in Europe and not one taking a punt on him is absurd. Or did we only offer him to Hamburg. Jol said Levy said 'no' to a loan, so how desperate were we just to get rid of a body to get another in?

 

[Coyboy]

I tell you what, just to save us 17 posts each of pithy bitching can you you just state what your opinion of this is (i.e. do you think Redknapp entertained the idea of loaning or selling Bale or not) and what cast iron proof you have to support it ?

I think he may have considered loaning him at some stage. I believe he said as much. I don't think he ever considered selling him.

But regardless he didn't join the first team in January 2010 because Ekotto was injured. He would have played anyway. IMO he wasn't in the team much previously not because Redknapp was superstitious but because he had some developing to do.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

So hang on, now you're hanging your hat on this Jol thing? Which he hasn't even mentioned Redknapp? Do you not think there could be an ounce of truth in the situation that I put forward.

Of course not.

The sheer thought of us offering Bale around every club in Europe and not one taking a punt on him is absurd. Or did we only offer him to Hamburg. Jol said Levy said 'no' to a loan, so how desperate were we just to get rid of a body to get another in?

I'm not hanging my hat on what Jol said at all, I don't even know what Jol said and when he was referring to - I haven't seen the quotes from Jol which is why I asked what he'd said.

I'm hanging my hat on what I've always said about this situation. I (my opinion) believe that Redknapp wasn't overly enamoured with Bale in his first 12 months at all and definitely considered loaning or selling him.

I'm basing that opinion on

1. what Redknapp did in terms of playing Bale in that period.

2. What he said and has subsequently said about Bale and that period.

3. What other managers such as McLiesh have said (why the fuck would he bullshit ?).

4. What Redknapp has done at his other clubs.

5. How Redknapp likes to wheel and deal every window.

6. the type of player he generally prefers. IE experienced and proven rather than raw, inexperienced and unproven.


What you seem to be saying is that despite lots of, albeit circumstantial, evidence to the contrary, there is a conspiracy amongst various managers to make it look like Redknapp was considering trading out Bale in some form, when in fact he never considered doing that.

Or you're fall back position, as I understand it, might be that maybe Levy was doing it behind Redknapp's back ?


We'd all respect Redknapp a lot more (OK, a fucking tiny bit more) if he'd just admitted that at one point he didn't fancy Bale and he nearly let him go. I'm sure there are players like that in every managers CV. Ferguson's done it. But no, what we are to believe is the reason he didn't play him was because he could in fact tell he was going to be a superstar and was saving him.

You couldn't make the shit up. And yet, he does, and some seem to want to buy it.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I think he may have considered loaning him at some stage. I believe he said as much. I don't think he ever considered selling him.

But regardless he didn't join the first team in January 2010 because Ekotto was injured. He would have played anyway. IMO he wasn't in the team much previously not because Redknapp was superstitious but because he had some developing to do.

Do you have cast iron evidence that he never considered selling him ?

Do you have cast iron evidence that Redknapp's superstition wasn't a factor ?

Because there were quotes out there from Redknapp saying it was as far as I recall (such as the one where he talks about putting him into a game we were winning 4-0 with 5 minutes to go, and the conversation with Ferguson telling how it must be a factor in his and other players mindset etc) ?

 

[Coyboy]

Do you have cast iron evidence that he never considered selling him ?

Do you have cast iron evidence that Redknapp's superstition wasn't a factor ?

Because there were quotes out there from Redknapp saying it was as far as I recall (such as the one where he talks about putting him into a game we were winning 4-0 with 5 minutes to go, and the conversation with Ferguson telling how it must be a factor in his and other players mindset etc) ?

No, because I can't prove a negative nor need I.

I believe he did say that. I also don't believe he was 100% serious.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

I'm not hanging my hat on what Jol said at all, I don't even know what Jol said and when he was referring to - I haven't seen the quotes from Jol which is why I asked what he'd said.

I'm hanging my hat on what I've always said about this situation. I (my opinion) believe that Redknapp wasn't overly enamoured with Bale in his first 12 months at all and definitely considered loaning or selling him.

I'm basing that opinion on

1. what Redknapp did in terms of playing Bale in that period.

2. What he said and has subsequently said about Bale and that period.

3. What other managers such as McLiesh have said (why the fuck would he bullshit ?).

4. What Redknapp has done at his other clubs.

5. How Redknapp likes to wheel and deal every window.

6. the type of player he generally prefers. IE experienced and proven rather than raw, inexperienced and unproven.


What you seem to be saying is that despite lots of, albeit circumstantial, evidence to the contrary, there is a conspiracy amongst various managers to make it look like Redknapp was considering trading out Bale in some form, when in fact he never considered doing that.

Or you're fall back position, as I understand it, might be that maybe Levy was doing it behind Redknapp's back ?


We'd all respect Redknapp a lot more (OK, a fucking tiny bit more) if he'd just admitted that at one point he didn't fancy Bale and he nearly let him go. I'm sure there are players like that in every managers CV. Ferguson's done it. But no, what we are to believe is the reason he didn't play him was because he could in fact tell he was going to be a superstar and was saving him.

You couldn't make the shit up. And yet, he does, and some seem to want to buy it.

When you say it's his MO and has done it at his other clubs what other examples are there? As far as I can find out, the only people that left the club in the January transfer window of 2009 were Ghaly and Sanchez? Are you being lazy or is there any information you know of or are holding back?

What other managers have said anything apart from McCleish? Why does what Bale said (about asking to go on loan but being told no) not count?

As I said earlier on, I am passing off what Jol has said as agent/scout talk. He got wind of Bale 'potentially' being available, and made an enquiry to loan him from Levy. Levy said no (Jol's words), so we obviously weren't overly intent on getting rid were we?

I think you are giving too much credit to rumour, a bit like you do with ITK when it suits.

 

[jolsnogross]

I doubt Harry entertained the idea of selling Bale, but even if he did, it isn't that controversial. Everyone looks at that idea now as though the glactico Bale was an inevitibility and Harry was a numpty to have thought of selling him.

But I would say it's as good or better for Bale (than for Harry) that Redknapp didn't move him on. He could have moved and been a decent pro but largely forgotten about. It's not set in stone that a player of Bale's potential will realize it. Usually, people have to have 'the-penny-dropped' moments at critical junctures in their career for them to hit the big time. So his time with Harry and AVB almost certainly played a major role in his development and it's not true that other actors in his life would have filled those roles so that the same outcome was pre-ordained.

Rather than flopping around, fixing his hair, and waiting to be attended to when he was ankle tapped in training, he was told to toughen up. Rather than go through an almost unbelievable run of games where Spurs never won when he played, he was given a couple of soft wins to be part of. Rather than get frustrated at being double and triple marked, he was coached into handing it. Of course, he worked really hard himself at becoming the player he is, but back then that wasn't the case and it wasn't clear he'd make it, let alone become a star footballer that he is now.