Reserves Discussion

[yanno]

I'm really not sure a whole new parallel reserve league structure is the most practical way forward. I still think the top Spanish and Italian clubs have the most pragmatic solution: once a player gets to the 18-20 age range, if they're not ready for top flight football, then loan them out for 6 months or an entire season to the highest level club possible. Real Madrid can make far more realistic assessments about Granero and De La Red now they've spent a season playing in La Liga for Getafe.

Even Wenger & Ferguson, who are prepared to play younger players in the Carling Cup, still loan many of their best youngsters out for lengthy spells. Man Utd's Jonny Evans has been getting good reviews at Sunderland. Bendtner spent an entire season at Brum, Song played 12 times for Charlton. Etc.

The two main concerns about loan spells are: i) injuries; ii) players get used to playing a different style of football - eg very direct. Unfortunately, injuries can happen at any level of football - just ask poor Terry Dixon who got crocked twice at Academy level. As for style of football, we should simply be smart about where we loan our players: there's no point loaning Taarabt to a team of long ball merchants.

 

[DEFchenkOE]

Good topic, and one that needs to be addressed soon as there are far too many young players that are not getting chances to prove what they can do. Unfortunately I do not see the FA changing things anytime soon, so what is the best solution from the current situation?

The loan system seems to be hit and miss but it's the only way that some of these players will get more opportunities, of course there is the risk of them becoming disillusioned by the type of football so I think that we need to have someone that really knows the Championship well (maybe the Director of Football??). I think Wenger is very selective on who he loans out his players to. It is also pointless loaning out players only for them to spend too much time on the bench eg Gardner, Routledge

We have to be realistic that not every reserve player will make it to the 1st team but by giving players more competitive experience somehow then at least there value will go up should we decide to sell them. We have bought alot of youth over the past few years and the next challenge for the club will be to make sure at least some of these players make it to the 1st team.

So for me the reserve system could be greatly improved but this is unlikely to happen for the time-being, so carefully selecting where to loan players is the only way at the moment for me. But we should not just sit around and wait for clubs to come in for these players, we should be actively looking at where we can send players that will not be featuring in the 1st team for the current season.

 

[liamc23]

I still dont understand why we still dont have a loan deal with some club from belgium or holland, similar to what Man Utd have been doing with Royal Antwerp for years they send out around 4 or 5 youth every year and it give those guys a great chance to play a decent standard of football week in week out in.

 

[joey55]

I still dont understand why we still dont have a loan deal with some club from belgium or holland, similar to what Man Utd have been doing with Royal Antwerp for years they send out around 4 or 5 youth every year and it give those guys a great chance to play a decent standard of football week in week out in.

But ultimatley how many players come through as a result of this? I think the issue managers have is that with the current system, no matter how often they play, they can't really asses how our players are developing and see if they are ready to be given a run in the 1st team. The reserves aren't of a high enough standard to make a judgement and with the loan system you end up sending a few players out to different clubs at different levels, so finding time to keep up to date with that must be very tough for managers, hence they don't seem to like it.

Ideally we need a way in which a manger can watch all his potential stars playing together in the same game every week. But, this has to be at a high enough standard to make a reasonable assessmment of their progress. That is exactly what the likes of Real and Barca get to do with the B sides playing in the lower leagues.

By sending players to the likes of Antwerp, they'd get more game time, but the mananger isn't really any the wiser and no one wants to risk players in the Prem as the stakes are so high. I bet Fergie hasn't had time to really take much notice of how his youngsters out on loan are doing.

 

[yanno]

Ideally we need a way in which a manger can watch all his potential stars playing together in the same game every week. But, this has to be at a high enough standard to make a reasonable assessmment of their progress. That is exactly what the likes of Real and Barca get to do with the B sides playing in the lower leagues.

By sending players to the likes of Antwerp, they'd get more game time, but the mananger isn't really any the wiser and no one wants to risk players in the Prem as the stakes are so high. I bet Fergie hasn't had time to really take much notice of how his youngsters out on loan are doing.

I'd imagine clubs have scouts watching their players out on loan every week. The key thing about going on loan is that players seem to reach a higher level - which is why they often come back from loan and straight into the first team squad: O'Hara being a classic example. Playing at a decent league level for Millwall had just raised his game a notch or two.

Schuster has taken both Granero and De La Red back to Real Madrid after their season-long loans, and can watch tape after tape of their performances for Getafe at his leisure over the summer. But I suspect his decision as to whether they'll be significant parts of his first-team squad next season will also be based on what he sees in pre-season training. In other words, a combination of what he sees on tape in terms of their all round game, and the level at which they perform next to his La Liga-winning superstars in training.

Plus, from a business perspective, if he does decide to sell them, they'll be worth considerably more with their league experience than if he'd lost them straight out of Real Madrid's B or C team.

All of which argues in favour of sending good young players out on very carefully selected loan deals.

 

[eddiebailey]

I think a lot of people high up in football have said the reserve system is crap. The gap between reserve league football and the first team seems to be getting wider and wider. The football is not competitive or fast enough, and a lot of teams have u18 players in it rather than players on the fringes of the first team squad.

Te gap between the Premiership and just about every other level of football is widening. The best reserve games are of at least League One standard in terms of pace and techinque, the difference is in strength, discipline, nous, atmosphere and competitive edge.

If we could address the issues of atmosphere and competitive edge, I think that would be a big step forward. I take Joey's point about managers wanting to see players play against men rather than boys, but in a more competitive competition it would be much easier to assess players development.

We dont put first team players in the reserves unless they are coming back from long term injuries.

We tend not to, unless the player is very out of favour, but some other clubs do.

There arent enough reserve games (Thanks to pleat who changed the structure for the FA).

Was not aware of this. I know Pleat fought tooth and nail against combining the U17 and U19 leagues into an U18 league, which may be a consideration as to why reserve teams seem to be getting younger.

But I think for the youngsters to progress we need to change the way we run our team. There is this thinking that we need 2 experienced pros for every position, but if we do the kids will never get a chance. Lets be honest, some of the 'squad' players are not that good and a youngster could do an equally solid job once or twice a season and it would help them so much more.

This I agree with. We should aim to have a core squad of around 17 players (essentially two goalies and three players for every outfield position) backed up by a quality youngster for every position, lads who do not expect to be involved in every game, but who can do a job when called on. With Ramso clearing out the deadwood, I am hopeful we may bemoving to something like that situation.

 

[Folkestoneyid]

Maybe they could set up a European reserve league. That way the standard of football would be far higher and it would actually be interesting. I don't don't know how feasable or commercially viable this is, but it would solve alot of problems. Obviously not the whole of Europe, but if about 28 of the top European sides formed a couple of small leagues with the top 2 in each meeting in a play off situation at the end of the season. Just the Germans, Spannish, Italian and us perhaps. I'd actually rather watch that than Championship football. Games could be shown live on SpursTV.

another option would be to have a warm up match before the main event of the reserve teams playing each other before the first teams do. They could kick off at 1 o'clock to get the crowd going and keep them interested. It may also cut down on prematch drinking as supporters get in earlier than usual to watch the match. Also the atmosphere will gradually build up so giving the players a lift to raise their game.