Sandro not good enough - Sherwood

Rocksuperstar

just a child getting older...
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#41
Isn't it amazing being a Spurs fan - we just took three points in a game where our oppo were desperate to win, and our form has stunk leading up to it. We should be over the moon yet, one post game statement - three words even - have us all sat here debating that, rather than celebrating a win.
 

klintheman

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#42
Just my opinion but bentalabs a better option, Sandro's been poor this year. It's down to him to improve and get back in the starting 11, not for dim to pick him on reputation
 

rsmith

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#43
keep it up Tim.!!!!

He has three games left in charge, and if he wants to use that time to get a few players to look in the mirror, I'm all for it. It'll make the new manager's life considerably easier than if Tim was giving the squad a weekly blow job.

We are overflowing with midfielders, we can't play them all, so the ones who play are there on merit.

Sandro, if you want a game, you know what you have to do to f**in earn it.
 

CheeseGromit

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#44
But we won - again. The 'kid' from the youth squad keeps scoring goals and the 'senior professional' from La Liga ... doesn't.

We're getting better results against the lesser teams this way and we haven't been able to cope with the top 3 teams all season, under either manager.

It's been three games in a row that there has been this ritual rage-fest in the match thread the moment the team is announced and people see Paulinho and Chadli as a central midfield pair, with no room for the supposedly more combative and defensive players and Kane starting instead of Soldado.

It's been plain since the first of those three games that the fifth midfielder has been either Kane or Adebayor - one of them is always dropping into midfield, except when we have the ball and are going forward - and that Sherwood reckons that we can get away, against weaker opposition, with a non-combative (but big) central midfield pair, as long as the two strikers he plays can both hold up and retain the ball, as Kane and Adebayor both can.

These two tactics enable us to defend from the front and make it harder to play through our supposedly under-manned midfield and both tactics have worked very well, although I doubt that anyone, including Sherwood, would want to use them against a top 7 opponent.

Why assume that there are personnel-conflict reasons for the team selection when the results have been 11 goals and 7 points from 3 games? He's selecting these players because they are winning, despite the ongoing chaos in the injury-depleted defence.
I am afraid (and I think that you have done that to my posts before) that you make too many assumptions about what I posted

I have neither criticised results or selection I criticised TS's handling of the senior professionals and his inability to get them to play

I do think that we play schoolboy football and don't think the style cuts any ice with the better teams ( see Liverpool capitulation at Anfield)

At this point of the season and what we have to play for it is right to give experience to younger players

Frankly if you are satisfied with what you see then I think that's mediocre for a Tottenham side

But please do read the thread and don't assume what is not there
 

fedupyid

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#45
Tim needs to go now!!! The man is a moron and is trying to burn the house down as he leaves. Levy needs to tell everyone that he has made mistakes and Sherwood was one of them. If Fulham still had Berbatov and the chances Fulham had fell to him they would have beaten us. The defensive frailties in our team are scary. The fact is the squad Tim has, has made him look a much more capable manager than he is. He is not quite as extreme as Di Canio in his treatment of players but he is close in publicly bad mouthing them.
 

14/04/91

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#46
I hate to admit it, but Tim has a point, we've been relatively free scoring since the beast has been dropped. I'm not saying Sandro doesn't make the cut, but with him sitting out there is more room for creativity which is paying dividends of late...
Chadli's creativity against Fulham consisted of getting the ball off Kaboul & passing it straight back to him. The safest range of passing I've ever seen. Not once did he try & accept the ball on the turn. Appalling.
 

mawspurs

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Thread starter #47
I want to like Tim, I do. He hasn't done a bad job. I just think he is lacking when it comes to speaking to the media on occasions, not all the time but it seems when he thinks he is getting a bit of criticism he has to bite someone.

I also think he could handle the bigger players better than he is. I know he wants to give youth a chance and I am all for that but it doesn't have to be in every game and it doesn't have to be for full games. Bentaleb for example was in danger of being over played at his age. The young ones should be used as impact subs, coming on with energy and exuberance, not played into the ground. When they have done that for a season then the following season they get more full games.

Overall his results aren't bad except in the cups, although that could have been down to a bit of prioritisation on his part, despite him denying that.

His comments over the last couple of weeks though are peeing me off.
 

JoeT

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#48
Tim needs to go now!!! The man is a moron and is trying to burn the house down as he leaves. Levy needs to tell everyone that he has made mistakes and Sherwood was one of them. If Fulham still had Berbatov and the chances Fulham had fell to him they would have beaten us. The defensive frailties in our team are scary. The fact is the squad Tim has, has made him look a much more capable manager than he is. He is not quite as extreme as Di Canio in his treatment of players but he is close in publicly bad mouthing them.
I can only partly agree with the "publicly bad mouthing them"comment, as Sandro actually went public through twitter didn't he.
 

mawspurs

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Thread starter #49
I can only partly agree with the "publicly bad mouthing them"comment, as Sandro actually went public through twitter didn't he.
To be fair he only said he was fit to play.

Good morning Guys, just to let you know that i'm not injured ! Hope that we can win the game today.

— Sandro Raniere (@sandroraniere) April 19, 2014
Tim has then said he is not good enough to get in the team at the moment.

I think Tim is forgetting that Sandro is not long back from long term injury so is not going to go nuts in training, because he is thinking ahead to match day and wants to make sure he is fit enough to start the game without having picked up a knock or strain in training.

I would rather that Tim had took Sandro aside and explained what he wants him to do in order for him to make the team, than declare he isn't good enough to the media.

As a result we are now seeing comments on news sites linking Sandro with Manu Utd amongst others. Before you know it we could have lost a very good player through a throw away remark from our manager.
 
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CosmicHotspur

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#50
It's just a pity that the two of them couldn't talk about this in private. Both had a valid statement to make but no idea how to make it diplomatically.
 
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#51
i like sandro. one of my favourite players but he has acted like a riddiculous sunday league teenager with this lack of professionalism. i feel for sherwood cos everybody is trying to have a pop at him for anything. he has given his all and received little support. some tactics/player selection i havent agreed with but i didnt always under any manager as we as fans all think we know best. we should all be getting behind the manager and the team. we are tottenham hotspur fans, not the anti sherwood/rose/soldado whoever brigade
 

mawspurs

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Thread starter #52
i like sandro. one of my favourite players but he has acted like a riddiculous sunday league teenager with this lack of professionalism. i feel for sherwood cos everybody is trying to have a pop at him for anything. he has given his all and received little support. some tactics/player selection i havent agreed with but i didnt always under any manager as we as fans all think we know best. we should all be getting behind the manager and the team. we are tottenham hotspur fans, not the anti sherwood/rose/soldado whoever brigade
How exactly is this unprofessional???

Good morning Guys, just to let you know that i'm not injured ! Hope that we can win the game today.

— Sandro Raniere (@sandroraniere) April 19, 2014
 

davidmatzdorf

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#53
I am afraid (and I think that you have done that to my posts before) that you make too many assumptions about what I posted

...

But please do read the thread and don't assume what is not there
Don't over-think your own influence ;-)

I just started with what you wrote and took my thoughts where they led me. I wasn't aware that there is a rule that says that a reply is restricted to commenting solely on points that were covered in the OP.

I do think that we play schoolboy football and don't think the style cuts any ice with the better teams ( see Liverpool capitulation at Anfield)
'Schoolboy football' is a silly overstatement, but the underlying sentiment I agree with, indeed it is underpinned by exactly what I wrote yesterday, which is that neither AVB nor Sherwood, unlike Redknapp, has the experience to adjust his approach in a canny way when the opposition has as good or better players to our own. When we are playing teams where our squad quality can win matches on its own, especially at home, I don't really see a problem with the 'attack, attach, attack' approach, although we are actually playing more sophisticatedly than that would suggest, e.g., the two strikers with hold-up skills compensating in part for the lack of a defensive midfielder.

But the lack of a more complex understanding shows when we play another top 7 team. For instance, our defensive coordination has been very bad all season. Under AVB, our ball control and defensive midfield set-up camouflaged it a bit more, but we have a squad full of really good central defenders and decent fullbacks and all of them, except Dawson and Walker for different reasons, have been playing well below their ability-level all season. Against weaker opposition, we can concede 1-3 stupid goals and still not lose. Against better teams, we get hammered on a reliable basis, which emphatically did not happen under Redknapp.

At this point of the season and what we have to play for it is right to give experience to younger players

Frankly if you are satisfied with what you see then I think that's mediocre for a Tottenham side
The first sentence: definitely yes. The second sentence: who's satisfied? It's been a profoundly disappointing season and I doubt you'd find anyone who would disagree. It's not been a 'disaster' or a 'fuck-up', as those people who measure their satisfaction based on hammerings by direct rivals (and the amount of stick they get in the pub from their mates) would insist. We have a win percentage comfortably above 50%, which would have been a wondrous dream less than 10 years ago. We've been in the upper reaches of the table all season. We have a squad packed with good players and that means that we win a lot of matches.

But we've either won them by playing boring football (AVB) or by playing somewhat chaotic football (TS). It's not been thrilling at any point. The high quality of the squad has been undermined by the attempt to integrate far too many new-to-England players at once and there is no longer a player of the calibre of Modric, Bale, van der Vaart or King around whom we can focus the side's attacking cutting edge or defensive solidity.

It's disappointing to watch a team under-perform over such a long period, but it's not been a great surprise to me. All during last Summer, when people were in triumphalist mode here as a result of the money we were spending, I kept going on about the level of turnover being too high and the need for players to spend a season getting used to the style of play. So it has proved.

I really hope that we do not react by selling off the 5 new players who didn't acclimatise quickly as failures and/or selling off Eriksen, Vertonghen and Lloris because we haven't qualified for the Champions League. I'll just say the same kind of thing I say every Spring: keep the squad broadly the same; try to get a couple of superior fullbacks; bring back Holtby as an understudy to Eriksen; then leave it the fuck alone.
 
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Capocrimini

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#54
Tim Sherwood is a massive moron, he needs to F off as soon as possible, the man is deluded and is now having a go at Sandro.

As a professional the best comment would have been " I haven't heard about the tweet, I'll have a word with Sandro see what he means". Sandro was getting tweeted are you playing, are you injured all week. His tweet could well have been a response to that, then Sherwood like a numpty comes out and says he isn't good enough!

People working at Tesco checkouts have more sense of brand, and professionalism then this guy. An embarassment to the human species and gets paid well for it.

Well done Tim pick on one of the clubs most popular players. What next? He has already had a pop at Hoddle, probarbly take this piss out out of king next, then come out with some nonsense about Bill Nicholson.
 
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#55
The 2 title challengers who are far better than us? Yes he did start against those 2 but I hardly said we're great with him. We are better balanced with him though.
Fair enough, but with that said, are we more likely to outscore opponents if two of our more creatives sit out) Dembele,Siggy, Bentaleb or Pauly sits out? To accomodate Sandro?
 

mil1lion

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#56
Fair enough, but with that said, are we more likely to outscore opponents if two of our more creatives sit out) Dembele,Siggy, Bentaleb or Pauly sits out? To accomodate Sandro?
Like I say its about balance. You cant go all out attack and disrespect opponents. I agree that there are games where you can get away with it and I'm not opposed to resting Sandro from time to time. The trouble is he wasn't even rested yesterday but completely dropped. If Sherwood doesn't think Sandro is good enough then he needs his head examining. I can't wait for Sherwood to be out of the hot seat before he causes even more damage.
 

CheeseGromit

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#57
Don't over-think your own influence ;-)

I just started with what you wrote and took my thoughts where they led me. I wasn't aware that there is a rule that says that a reply is restricted to commenting solely on points that were covered in the OP.



'Schoolboy football' is a silly overstatement, but the underlying sentiment I agree with, indeed it is underpinned by exactly what I wrote yesterday, which is that neither AVB nor Sherwood, unlike Redknapp, has the experience to adjust his approach in a canny way when the opposition has as good or better players to our own. When we are playing teams where our squad quality can win matches on its own, especially at home, I don't really see a problem with the 'attack, attach, attack' approach, although we are actually playing more sophisticatedly than that would suggest, e.g., the two strikers with hold-up skills compensating in part for the lack of a defensive midfielder.

But the lack of a more complex understanding shows when we play another top 7 team. For instance, our defensive coordination has been very bad all season. Under AVB, our ball control and defensive midfield set-up camouflaged it a bit more, but we have a squad full of really good central defenders and decent fullbacks and all of them, except Dawson and Walker for different reasons, have been playing well below their ability-level all season. Against weaker opposition, we can concede 1-3 stupid goals and still not lose. Against better teams, we get hammered on a reliable basis, which emphatically did not happen under Redknapp.



The first sentence: definitely yes. The second sentence: who's satisfied? It's been a profoundly disappointing season and I doubt you'd find anyone who would disagree. It's not been a 'disaster' or a 'fuck-up', as those people who measure their satisfaction based on hammerings by direct rivals (and the amount of stick they get in the pub from their mates) would insist. We have a win percentage comfortably above 50%, which would have been a wondrous dream less than 10 years ago. We've been in the upper reaches of the table all season. We have a squad packed with good players and that means that we win a lot of matches.

But we've either won them by playing boring football (AVB) or by playing somewhat chaotic football (TS). It's not been thrilling at any point. The high quality of the squad has been undermined by the attempt to integrate far too many new-to-England players at once and there is no longer a player of the calibre of Modric, Bale, van der Vaart or King around whom we can focus the side's attacking cutting edge or defensive solidity.

It's disappointing to watch a team under-perform over such a long period, but it's not been a great surprise to me. All during last Summer, when people were in triumphalist mode here as a result of the money we were spending, I kept going on about the level of turnover being too high and the need for players to spend a season getting used to the style of play. So it has proved.

I really hope that we do not react by selling off the 5 new players who didn't acclimatise quickly as failures and/or selling off Eriksen, Vertonghen and Lloris because we haven't qualified for the Champions League. I'll just say the same kind of thing I say every Spring: keep the squad broadly the same; try to get a couple of superior fullbacks; bring back Holtby as an understudy to Eriksen; then leave it the fuck alone.
I certainly not trying to influence you or anybody else. I certainly am willing to defend my position and still think having read your first response you have made assumptions about what I said. The expansion of your thoughts is entirely your prerogative and I wasnt aware that I was stopping you, in fact it is what it is all about Perhaps a little clarity in where your response to my comment ended and the expansion started may have helped me if not others

I also disagree that you think that "schoolboy football " is a suitable term to use. We are naive and after making a dismissive comment about it I think you go on a substantiate it. And going to every home game with a slightly heavy heart is something I have not done at Spurs for a very long time if ever and I have been around a few years.

It is however interesting that as dialogue takes place our positions seem not very far apart.

Then I prefer that posters respond to posts comment and explain that have a different view is right not just using disagree without further elucidating with comment ( please note EB) cant see any value in just disagreeing for the sake of it.

I like you want to see the nucleus of the same squad and I would like a better tactical coach than we currently posses. The history of my posts show that I wanted TS to be judged at the end of the season , not after a game or two or now every match so agree your points about hysteria.
 

davidmatzdorf

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#58
We are naive and ... I think you go on a substantiate it. And going to every home game with a slightly heavy heart is something I have not done at Spurs for a very long time if ever and I have been around a few years.

It is however interesting that as dialogue takes place our positions seem not very far apart.

I like you want to see the nucleus of the same squad and I would like a better tactical coach than we currently posses. The history of my posts show that I wanted TS to be judged at the end of the season , not after a game or two or now every match so agree your points about hysteria.
I agree with those bits. Mainly the 'our positions seem not very far apart' bit. I never thought we were 'disagreeing' all that much, just having a debate on the finer distinctions.
 

parj

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#59
But we won - again. The 'kid' from the youth squad keeps scoring goals and the 'senior professional' from La Liga ... doesn't.

We're getting better results against the lesser teams this way and we haven't been able to cope with the top 3 teams all season, under either manager.

It's been three games in a row that there has been this ritual rage-fest in the match thread the moment the team is announced and people see Paulinho and Chadli as a central midfield pair, with no room for the supposedly more combative and defensive players and Kane starting instead of Soldado.

It's been plain since the first of those three games that the fifth midfielder has been either Kane or Adebayor - one of them is always dropping into midfield, except when we have the ball and are going forward - and that Sherwood reckons that we can get away, against weaker opposition, with a non-combative (but big) central midfield pair, as long as the two strikers he plays can both hold up and retain the ball, as Kane and Adebayor both can.

These two tactics enable us to defend from the front and make it harder to play through our supposedly under-manned midfield and both tactics have worked very well, although I doubt that anyone, including Sherwood, would want to use them against a top 7 opponent.

Why assume that there are personnel-conflict reasons for the team selection when the results have been 11 goals and 7 points from 3 games? He's selecting these players because they are winning, despite the ongoing chaos in the injury-depleted defence.
Can't look at 3 games. Look at the whole period in charge. I'm not doubting we score more, but don't tell me conceding 3 against WBA is acceptable. AVB lost his job conceding loads to Liverpool and Man City. I would put WBA up there too. Along with repeated results against Liverpool and Man City.... Oh and Chelsea. Fulham could have easily been a draw yesterday.

This has been a season of 2 managers with unbalanced philosophies. They both have the same result.... Not in top 4. One attacks too much but can't defend for shizzle and the other defended too much. Both seem to isolate players. Don't credit TS with saving Ade... Ade had history of blowing hot and cold.

We need a mature manager now.
 

gloryglory

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#60
AVB and Adebayor all over again. Nobody knows what has really happened so everybody is free to invent an interpretation that fits with their existing preconceptions.

Me, I think people just need to be consistent. If one selling point of tim was that he wouldn't alienate key players, then we have to acknowledge that was wrong. If its not Tim's fault and maybe players are out of control, perhaps more sympathy retrospectively for AVB?