Not sure who fits where. But we’re ending up bloated at CB, with very attacking full backs who are powerful runners, but no real playmaker at CM and front players who all seem at their best playing quite narrow. In the 433 so far there’s also a clear emphasis on transitioning players on the flanks rather than in the middle.
I do like this, especially with the selection of fullbacks we now have which can genuinely provide that 100 yard stretch of width by themselves. I think Lucas could comfortably come in for either Bryan or Son too in this system, while Bergwijn and Lo Celso could both replace either Dele or Bryan and likewise both Winks and Lo Celso could replace either Skipp or Højbjerg.
I’ve noticed this too and while City didn’t seem to suss it, Wolves did and broke very effectively through the gaps we left around Skipp. I feel like a lot is being asked of him as there’s seemingly a big gap between him and his neatest CM at any given time with the other two very much marshalling the flanks primarily. He could help himself, and this will come with experience, by slightly improved reading of the game and not always going for the proactive approach.
I think Gil, Lo Celso or Ndombele in for one of them in these matches mates a huge difference. I agree, we don’t need both of them in a match where we’re playing almost entirely in the opposition half like v Watford.
Echoing the above, but his comments thus far do suggest he agrees. He doesn’t seem thrilled with our early attacking performances. Kane also helps as it means the ball stays higher up the pitch and for longer, and I think familiarity will bring more fluidity which means we will see is playing a little slicked, but ultimately it probably does require a more attack minded selection too.
*Warning: Long Post* Expanding on what I/we have said already, been putting this together all week.
PART 1 - Defence
For all the league games so far it’s basically been the same shape. A 4-3-3 with rather narrow and laterally defined lines in midfield and attack, both with and without the ball. Now defensively we have lined up so:
And so far, so good. Three games, three clean sheets, zero goals conceded – using what is basically existing (and often lamented…) personnel. More of a mid-press, though we have put the squeeze on higher at times, and focusing on being a compact unit, blocking up the middle of the park and shuttling wide to defend the flanks when needed.
I do have some reservations about this – It asks an awful lot of our central midfielders to cover ground and get out wide, it remains to be seen if they can do this game after game. We are asking some of our players (especially the fullbacks) to defend one vs. one isolated and to win their individual duals, which we’ve just about managed so far but if they don’t we could be in trouble. And I think teams could start to work it out and play on how narrow we are (both Wolves and Watford made some attempts at this), but so far it’s working alright and we hope that continues.
PART 2 - Attack & Possession
In possession it’s been a bit more of a mixed bag. Against City with the scenario of playing without the ball for large spells and on the counter attack I see the sense. Three forwards close together to counter attack and combine in transition, it worked well and from one of them we ultimately won the game. The other two games we continued in this fashion and it hasn’t… Wolves was the scrappiest, lowest quality game you could wish to see (from both teams), Watford we were the ones expected to dominate ball and territory and make the running. In both we had a struggle to really get our attackers in to the game and use the ball well.
I don’t really agree with, or like, playing this way against teams that sit back:
That is what we were doing vs. Watford, especially in the first half. I think at worst it could be a long old season in games like this if we continued in this fashion. The midfield balance I don’t like for these matches, both Skipp and Hojbjerg to me really want to play that same role. Sitting with the game in front of them. Count the number of times in a match they both come to get the ball off the defence and are on the same plain. Alli also isn’t that comfortable actually getting the ball under pressure and on the half turn etc. He will drop very deep, too deep, in that left channel so he can operate at his own languid tempo under less pressure. Result being a midfield that isn’t the most taxing for the opposition when the game/possession is in a settled down state. All three to their credit have been working very hard and yes they’ve been making advanced runs and making passes on occasion, but I still don’t think the balance is right – particularly in games we will dominate.
Then there are the attackers. Simply none of Son/Moura/Bergwijn are good in heavy traffic and shouldn’t play so narrow. We know they’ve got their flaws at the best of times but keep doing this and I think they’ll largely keep being ineffectual.
I’m sure a few of those still reading will scoff and point to three wins and some ok performances (team and individual), and yes with the individual and team quality we have we can most probably still win a lot of games in this fashion. But in my opinion I don’t think it is the most effective way of going about things, or how I want to see us set up every week. Hopefully we can evolve further and it is very true that it is still extremely early days and very few matches under Nuno, but given our lack of (creative) options and how the squad has been shaped towards functionality and pace/running ability I do think there is a big chance that we are a fairly basic team this year (though that doesn’t mean it can’t be effective) and might be reflected in some of the football. Or we find ourselves more and giving up the ball and playing on the counter to play to our strengths. We shall see…..
PART 3 - My (forlorn) hopes...
Each to their own but personally I have always liked my football played with high pressing, high possession, high control and domination of ball/territory. Now I know, massive caveat Pacos weren’t up to much and we’ll face sterner tests most weeks, etc, but how we lined up in Europe was much more to my liking and how I’d want us to play:
We basically tried to mimic much of what Man City/Guardiola do. One holding player, the other two midfielders very advanced playing between the lines and taking it in areas that give the opposition a headache. Lots of width on both sides, options between the lines and in the half spaces, nice triangles and combos of play, forward passes, and a pleasing watch. We were then able to press high in numbers but also had players like our left back and holding midfielder able to sit and mop up and ensure they couldn’t get out.
There is a number of ways to play that with our current squad. Davies I’ve never particularly rated but he’d be ideal you think for the tucked in fullback role. The sole pivot can be any of Hojbjerg/Skipp/Winks. And I think you could pick any number of our wide players. Son could be a wide poacher on either flank with either the inside midfielder or fullback moving into the space, Bergwijn or Moura likewise as an option for either wing, and I think you could even use Sessegnon or Reguilon – just holding their width and making runs in behind to pin their opposition marker to be fed by or just to open up space for the “Inside Left” like the Gil/Sessegnon tandem were doing the other night.
Eg’s:
I mean there are many more options, and you can switch personnel, but those are just some initial examples.
But truth be told I don’t expect us to continue playing in this ethos/approach, and we badly needed more creative options in those advanced midfield slots to play it regularly and we seemingly just weren’t looking at them, which is disappointing. But even now I think we do have options to go with it if we get GLC and Gil in the team. Then it becomes slotting people in around them. Not every week, but there are plenty of games when we will be the overwhelmingly dominant party, and for me requires a braver and bolder approach. I'm hoping Nuno does eventually aim for similar.
One can always hope…..
Great post, and I largely agree. I would just quibble with calling the formation in the second match against Pacos a 4-3-3. It seemed to me that Sess was playing as a LWB, not a forward, as he was defending all the way down to the endline, unlike Lucas on the right. It was just that we had so much possession, and Sess had enough pace, that he could push further up the field, and Davies could take up that space on the left past the centerline. Doherty, on the right, didn't get up the field as much, so Lucas provided more of the width on the right when we had possession. Maybe with the more athletic Emerson on the right, we would see him push up more, and Romero push up and occupy the space that Davies did on the left, though not at the same time.
Very good post and comprehensive.*Warning: Long Post* Expanding on what I/we have said already, been putting this together all week.
PART 1 - Defence
For all the league games so far it’s basically been the same shape. A 4-3-3 with rather narrow and laterally defined lines in midfield and attack, both with and without the ball. Now defensively we have lined up so:
And so far, so good. Three games, three clean sheets, zero goals conceded – using what is basically existing (and often lamented…) personnel. More of a mid-press, though we have put the squeeze on higher at times, and focusing on being a compact unit, blocking up the middle of the park and shuttling wide to defend the flanks when needed.
I do have some reservations about this – It asks an awful lot of our central midfielders to cover ground and get out wide, it remains to be seen if they can do this game after game. We are asking some of our players (especially the fullbacks) to defend one vs. one isolated and to win their individual duals, which we’ve just about managed so far but if they don’t we could be in trouble. And I think teams could start to work it out and play on how narrow we are (both Wolves and Watford made some attempts at this), but so far it’s working alright and we hope that continues.
PART 2 - Attack & Possession
In possession it’s been a bit more of a mixed bag. Against City with the scenario of playing without the ball for large spells and on the counter attack I see the sense. Three forwards close together to counter attack and combine in transition, it worked well and from one of them we ultimately won the game. The other two games we continued in this fashion and it hasn’t… Wolves was the scrappiest, lowest quality game you could wish to see (from both teams), Watford we were the ones expected to dominate ball and territory and make the running. In both we had a struggle to really get our attackers in to the game and use the ball well.
I don’t really agree with, or like, playing this way against teams that sit back:
That is what we were doing vs. Watford, especially in the first half. I think at worst it could be a long old season in games like this if we continued in this fashion. The midfield balance I don’t like for these matches, both Skipp and Hojbjerg to me really want to play that same role. Sitting with the game in front of them. Count the number of times in a match they both come to get the ball off the defence and are on the same plain. Alli also isn’t that comfortable actually getting the ball under pressure and on the half turn etc. He will drop very deep, too deep, in that left channel so he can operate at his own languid tempo under less pressure. Result being a midfield that isn’t the most taxing for the opposition when the game/possession is in a settled down state. All three to their credit have been working very hard and yes they’ve been making advanced runs and making passes on occasion, but I still don’t think the balance is right – particularly in games we will dominate.
Then there are the attackers. Simply none of Son/Moura/Bergwijn are good in heavy traffic and shouldn’t play so narrow. We know they’ve got their flaws at the best of times but keep doing this and I think they’ll largely keep being ineffectual.
I’m sure a few of those still reading will scoff and point to three wins and some ok performances (team and individual), and yes with the individual and team quality we have we can most probably still win a lot of games in this fashion. But in my opinion I don’t think it is the most effective way of going about things, or how I want to see us set up every week. Hopefully we can evolve further and it is very true that it is still extremely early days and very few matches under Nuno, but given our lack of (creative) options and how the squad has been shaped towards functionality and pace/running ability I do think there is a big chance that we are a fairly basic team this year (though that doesn’t mean it can’t be effective) and might be reflected in some of the football. Or we find ourselves more and giving up the ball and playing on the counter to play to our strengths. We shall see…..
PART 3 - My (forlorn) hopes...
Each to their own but personally I have always liked my football played with high pressing, high possession, high control and domination of ball/territory. Now I know, massive caveat Pacos weren’t up to much and we’ll face sterner tests most weeks, etc, but how we lined up in Europe was much more to my liking and how I’d want us to play:
We basically tried to mimic much of what Man City/Guardiola do. One holding player, the other two midfielders very advanced playing between the lines and taking it in areas that give the opposition a headache. Lots of width on both sides, options between the lines and in the half spaces, nice triangles and combos of play, forward passes, and a pleasing watch. We were then able to press high in numbers but also had players like our left back and holding midfielder able to sit and mop up and ensure they couldn’t get out.
There is a number of ways to play that with our current squad. Davies I’ve never particularly rated but he’d be ideal you think for the tucked in fullback role. The sole pivot can be any of Hojbjerg/Skipp/Winks. And I think you could pick any number of our wide players. Son could be a wide poacher on either flank with either the inside midfielder or fullback moving into the space, Bergwijn or Moura likewise as an option for either wing, and I think you could even use Sessegnon or Reguilon – just holding their width and making runs in behind to pin their opposition marker to be fed by or just to open up space for the “Inside Left” like the Gil/Sessegnon tandem were doing the other night.
Eg’s:
I mean there are many more options, and you can switch personnel, but those are just some initial examples.
But truth be told I don’t expect us to continue playing in this ethos/approach, and we badly needed more creative options in those advanced midfield slots to play it regularly and we seemingly just weren’t looking at them, which is disappointing. But even now I think we do have options to go with it if we get GLC and Gil in the team. Then it becomes slotting people in around them. Not every week, but there are plenty of games when we will be the overwhelmingly dominant party, and for me requires a braver and bolder approach. I'm hoping Nuno does eventually aim for similar.
One can always hope…..
I worry about Ndombele's discipline in a double pivot. In that formation I'd play Ndombele as the no.10 and drop Dele. Then have either Skipp or GLC in the double pivot.
I understand the concern. I rate Skipp and I think he'll be a great player in the future but I think we need CMs that play forward more.
Yeah I agree with everything you said, and I've wanted so badly for Ndombele to work deeper, but he just hasn't so far. He's a wonderful creative player but he doesn't do the dogged and disciplined work. For all the forward passes, if this Chelsea team can walk through our midfield, we'll get battered. For that reason maybe GLC beside Højbjerg is the compromise with Ndombele given licence to pull strings behind the two forwards.
