Sheffield United Vs Tottenham: Leg 2 Match Thread

[LexingtonSpurs]

We've now played 22 games in the league, the same as under Sherwood, have seven fewer points, scored eight fewer goals (ascribable to Ade's loss of form and Soldado's continuing impotence, which are hardly Pochettino's fault), and conceded as many—which, given that Lloris has been making rather more saves per goal than last season and we've still had just the five clean sheets as opposed to seven, is no improvement whatsoever. We're still just as sloppy in giving away possession as we were under Sherwood, and whilst we look more organised and the eccentric team selections appear to be a thing of the past, we're no better to watch, unless you happen to be a connoisseur of sideways passing.

It's all a bit Emperor's New Clothes, isn't? Never mind. Jam tomorrow, as the White Queen said.

This is a bit of an apples to oranges comparison. Sherwood took over a squad in mid-season form, while Pochettino started from scratch.

If you look at Sherwoods first 9 total games (through the end of January) he took 16 points out of 27, we scored 16, conceded 14. Same time frame for Pochettino - starting with Newcastle CC game - Pochettino got 17 points in the next 9 games, we scored 20, conceded 12. Pochettino has actually coached 3 more games (4 after saturday) in that time frame because he won the cup games.

 

[Mr Pink]

This is a bit of an apples to oranges comparison. Sherwood took over a squad in mid-season form, while Pochettino started from scratch.

If you look at Sherwoods first 9 total games (through the end of January) he took 16 points out of 27, we scored 16, conceded 14. Same time frame for Pochettino - starting with Newcastle CC game - Pochettino got 17 points in the next 9 games, we scored 20, conceded 12. Pochettino has actually coached 3 more games (4 after saturday) in that time frame because he won the cup games.

The comparison just misses the point anyway.

The real point is, where will we be sitting come this time next season under Pochettino. Loads of people said they were prepared to give him time, well you wouldn't think it.

And its not like our season is finished or anything either, far from it.

 

[SpurSince57]

This is a bit of an apples to oranges comparison. Sherwood took over a squad in mid-season form, while Pochettino started from scratch.

If you look at Sherwoods first 9 total games (through the end of January) he took 16 points out of 27, we scored 16, conceded 14. Same time frame for Pochettino - starting with Newcastle CC game - Pochettino got 17 points in the next 9 games, we scored 20, conceded 12. Pochettino has actually coached 3 more games (4 after saturday) in that time frame because he won the cup games.

Yes, and not very good mid-season form. Pochettino, on the other hand, had the luxury of a pre-season.

If I look at Sherwood's first nine league games I see 20 points, 17 goals for and 11 against (five coming in one disastrous game against City); I look at Pochettino's first nine and see 11 points, 13 goals for and 14 against. How does one account for this discrepancy? Why, one accounts for it by pointing out that you've not only lumped cup games against inferior opposition in with league games, but awarded points to the cup games.

Apples and oranges, eh?

Stroll on.

 

[SpurSince57]

I never once said a work in progress should be exempt from criticism, what I am saying is that its reasonable to take such into account. World of difference.

The difference between Pochettino and Sherwood is the former has a style, a way of playing, and that takes time to instill effectively. This will serve us far better in the long term and going through a growing period, if you will, is what I mean when I say it should be taken in account.

What was Sherwood's grand plan for the long term? He did well introducing Bentaleb and Kane, and got Adebayor on to one of his purple patches but there was fuck all evidence of any style under Sherwood. No long term vision, just methods for the short term like using Adebayor.

That's why you give someone like Pochettino more latitude, because in the end we'll be more than the sum of our parts, not relying on a moody Adebayor.

And he still continues to pick up results, so what the hell is the point in comparing Pochettino to Sherwood after only 6 months, when one looks infinitely a better bet for the long term.

Jesus, why not just wait until next season before firming up your judgement?

But any criticism gets jumped upon by the Pochettino evangelists, it seems.

I didn't see any evidence of a grand long-term plan from Sherwood. As I've posted on numerous occasions, he gave every appearance of making it up as he went along. That said, he was fire-fighting from the start, and none of us has any idea of what he'd have done if he'd had a pre-season and time to think about the long term. Unfortunately, I still haven't seen much evidence of a long-term vision from Pochettino, either.

Still, Napoleon's supposed to have said that the most valuable attribute one of his generals could have was luck, and Pochettino's certainly had that.

As I said, I haven't made up my mind whether it's the players, the manager, or both.

 

[Mr Pink]

But any criticism gets jumped upon by the Pochettino evangelists, it seems.

I didn't see any evidence of a grand long-term plan from Sherwood. As I've posted on numerous occasions, he gave every appearance of making it up as he went along. That said, he was fire-fighting from the start, and none of us has any idea of what he'd have done if he'd had a pre-season and time to think about the long term. Unfortunately, I still haven't seen much evidence of a long-term vision from Pochettino, either.

Still, Napoleon's supposed to have said that the most valuable attribute one of his generals could have was luck, and Pochettino's certainly had that.

As I said, I haven't made up my mind whether it's the players, the manager, or both.

Well I think its fair to say that we have seen some signs of Poch's style. Everton, Chelsea and the first half of last night for sure. In fact I'd say last night, in the first half, is exactly Poch's style in full flow. That's the most we've been winning the ball high up the pitch under him yet.

There's been glimpses in plenty of other games as well but last night, in the first half, was the best to date and I also think he found a better balance so we might see it more consistently now to.

I honestly believe the adaptation and implementation of the style will begin to accelerate now.

 

[Kendall]

This Poch has a 'style' and a 'philosophy' stuff is a bit of an overstatement and us peddled out as more of an excuse IMO for the sheer amount of bang average performances this season. For a supposed high energy 'philosophy' the dismally slow moving football on the whole this season shows to me he's failing to implement it.

Eriksen keeps saying we should score earlier before he has to last-gasp it and he's right. We cant create enough. We barely created a clear cut chance against Sheff Utd over both legs until the 88th.

 

[DaSpurs]

I find myself in middle ground in this debate as I agree with SS57 that we're just really not that good and have been very lucky this season, but at the same time I can't fault Poch considering he's inherited an unbalanced squad of players he's held hostage to and I agree with Pink that Poch is therefore deserving of more time before even criticizing the man. Questioning is fair, but criticizing at this stage is harsh given this ridiculous squad. There are about half of them who I'd happily trade out for players in this league regarded as "average" by the majority here, simply because those players would make us more well-rounded, more dynamic, and/or are just flat out better. So I don't think Poch can be faulted just yet given what he's got at his disposal.

Come next September though, and we don't add a dynamic playmaker in midfield for the sake of more physical holding midfielders to keep up this dual banks of CB's nonsense, then he's entirely out of excuses and would look a damn fool if he's wondering why we keep playing crab football and aren't moving much up the table.

As for now, I like the direction we're going though. If he ever does go on to fail (which I think unlikely), then at least he reprovided us with a core in the team from which to improve mentality, because IMO the outright mental bitchassness exhibited by our players last season was even more galling to watch than the pathetic crab football.

 

[Bulletspur]

Does it every game. Wouldn't last 5 minutes in the lower leagues.

You could argue that he does get the odd important goal (such as the Burnley replay) but he's never where he needs to be.

I didn't think much of him last season, but I think that 7-1 defeat in the WC destroyed him.

IIRC he did not play in that match

 

[hellava_tough]

Burnley.

2007-2008 was the last time we won it

And we spanked Arsenal in the semi-final:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007–08_Football_League_Cup

 

[Mr Pink]

This Poch has a 'style' and a 'philosophy' stuff is a bit of an overstatement and us peddled out as more of an excuse IMO for the sheer amount of bang average performances this season. For a supposed high energy 'philosophy' the dismally slow moving football on the whole this season shows to me he's failing to implement it.

Eriksen keeps saying we should score earlier before he has to last-gasp it and he's right. We cant create enough. We barely created a clear cut chance against Sheff Utd over both legs until the 88th.

Its not overstated really though, but I do agree he's struggled to implement it thus far. But there has been signs in recent games, particularly the first half the other night. And I know he had a pretty quick impact at Southampton, but they had decent foundations already in place, when he took over, but MS even said it took the best part of 6 months to get to grips with his requirements.

I don't think he's got a great squad in terms of the way he wants to play. Kane is perfect for example, but some of the other options arn't really. For all Eriksen's quality on the ball, he does bottle challenges sometimes, and then other weeks he looks like he's prepared to press and work harder. He needs to achieve more consistency with some of them.

I also think we created plenty of openings prior to the 88th minute. Not sitters, but very promising situations which should of come to a lot more.

The balance of the team was much better as well, and that's why we saw a big improvement in performance from the first leg.

But there was nothing slow about us the other night.

 

[Gassin's finest]

IIRC he did not play in that match

Came on at half time for Fernandinho.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]