Shoddy transfer business

[werty]

This may have been the table you were looking for. So we were closer to last than we were to the position above us, with two teams below us having a game in hand.

 

[sloth]

The first part of you post went over my head :lol: Are you saying we were just in a bad bit of form? Because not only were we in bad form, but we were also playing bad and deserved the results we were getting. It wasn't down to luck, like correctly picking heads or tails is.

There's definitely something wrong with that table, because Keane played 14 games for us that season in the league. Count them here. Keane's five goals came against 'Boro, Sunderland, Blackburn, Man City and Liverpool. He also got at least three assists in the 14 games, something I don't remember Bent and Pav getting. Speaking of Pav, he only scored five league goals(the same as Keane) in 28 games. While I understand he probably didn't play a full 90 minutes in any of those and Keane may even have played more minutes all together, he isn't someone you can rely on now and definitely couldn't be relied on then.

I agree with you that Palacios was the best signing made in January, but I still think you're undervaluing Keane's contribution. Not only do I feel he contributed his fair share on the pitch, I imagine he done a lot off the pitch too and would have given the whole place a huge lift. I also don't think it's a coincidence that we played better and got better results with him with us.

Edit: with reference to Spurs Bear's post too.

It's my mistake regards the number of goals/games, for some reason the site I used missed the last two games of the season off the list (Liverpool and City). In the City match he scored a pen which won us the game and in the Liverpool match he scored our only goal in a 3-1 defeat.

The point at the beginning was to say that like a coin in which heads should land 50% of the time, but which goes on a streak of tails our team was far better than our form was suggesting, looked at in the whole we were a 50 point a season side but we won and lost in streaks. That was still fewer points than we should have scored imo, but in the normal range of possible points a team of our quality could be expected to achieve.

We could of course done far worse than that and we could indeed have been relegated, just as we could have won the league.

Although we flirted with the bottom three for a good proportion of the season I personally never felt like we would be relegated or even close to relegation come the end of the year.

Keane got 3 assists, two of which came in the 4-0 thrashing of Boro (the game just after he signed for us in which he also scored this game went a great deal of the way to confirming his return as the second coming of the Messiah in the minds of many fans; it's a similar effect to the way goslings imprint on the first thing with legs that they see; it also happened with Mido when he scored a couple on his debut! That he followed it up with a last minute goal against Sunderland was the coup de grace which sealed the deal), the other came against Villa.

The factor which imo along with the signing of Palacios and the fact that our team was simply far better than those around us, which saw us stay up so comfortably was that after losing the CC Final to Utd we then had 12 straight Premier League matches with no other distractions; we won seven of them drew 2 and lost three. Prior to then we'd been playing cup matches as often as Premier League ones and half the time they'd been mid-week.

In summary, I think that Keane was completely over-priced at £15m and a panic buy. I think the facts have since born that assessment out. His purchase has been justified by some because they say he was integral to us staying up. For all the reasons I've given in this post and previous ones I think that is to grossly over state his influence.

That said I can understand the panic, Levy also probably needed to back his manager's judgement. I just think he and Redknapp were wrong.

 

[werty]

Edit: with reference to Spurs Bear's post too.

It's my mistake regards the number of goals/games, for some reason the site I used missed the last two games of the season off the list (Liverpool and City). In the City match he scored a pen which won us the game and in the Liverpool match he scored our only goal in a 3-1 defeat.

The point at the beginning was to say that like a coin in which heads should land 50% of the time, but which goes on a streak of tails our team was far better than our form was suggesting, looked at in the whole we were a 50 point a season side but we won and lost in streaks. That was still fewer points than we should have scored imo, but in the normal range of possible points a team of our quality could be expected to achieve.

We could of course done far worse than that and we could indeed have been relegated, just as we could have won the league.

Although we flirted with the bottom three for a good proportion of the season I personally never felt like we would be relegated or even close to relegation come the end of the year.

Keane got 3 assists, two of which came in the 4-0 thrashing of Boro (the game just after he signed for us in which he also scored this game went a great deal of the way to confirming his return as the second coming of the Messiah in the minds of many fans; it's a similar effect to the way goslings imprint on the first thing with legs that they see; it also happened with Mido when he scored a couple on his debut! That he followed it up with a last minute goal against Sunderland was the coup de grace which sealed the deal), the other came against Villa.

The factor which imo along with the signing of Palacios and the fact that our team was simply far better than those around us, which saw us stay up so comfortably was that after losing the CC Final to Utd we then had 12 straight Premier League matches with no other distractions; we won seven of them drew 2 and lost three. Prior to then we'd been playing cup matches as often as Premier League ones and half the time they'd been mid-week.

In summary, I think that Keane was completely over-priced at £15m and a panic buy. I think the facts have since born that assessment out. His purchase has been justified by some because they say he was integral to us staying up. For all the reasons I've given in this post and previous ones I think that is to grossly over state his influence.

That said I can understand the panic, Levy also probably needed to back his manager's judgement. I just think he and Redknapp were wrong.

I think it's a bit too easy to say we were 50 point team but in a bad streak. Keane had just scored over 20 goals the previous two seasons. Why wasn't his bad six months at liverpool just a bad streak and that he'd return to his previous level? We'd been poor for a good 6-7 months befoe Harry came in. How were we supposed to know if the good 2-3 initial months under Harry was just a good streak, especially considering the eight games before Keane came in weren't much better than before Harry came in?

I also don't agree with you re Keane's performance against 'Boro, although you can argue that either way and could provide dozens of players to offer as evidence for both sides. I don't have the energy to do that now. :lol:

I'm not agruing that he was over priced or even a panic buy, but he was a risk worth taking at the time. You can't and haven't convinced me that he wasn't a big part of why we stayed up.

 

[sloth]

I think it's a bit too easy to say we were 50 point team but in a bad streak. Keane had just scored over 20 goals the previous two seasons. Why wasn't his bad six months at liverpool just a bad streak and that he'd return to his previous level? We'd been poor for a good 6-7 months befoe Harry came in. How were we supposed to know if the good 2-3 initial months under Harry was just a good streak, especially considering the eight games before Keane came in weren't much better than before Harry came in?

I think the previous few seasons ppg bore out the fact that we were a minimum 50 point a season team even with the departure of Keane and Berbatov.

I take your point about Keane's previous seasons and I would have prepared to take a gamble on him, my whole point was the size of the gamble. £15m was a ridiculous fee for a player of his age on his wages in his form. £7-£8m was more like it. Or failing that a loan until the end of the season witha view to purchase. The ball imo was in our court. He was surplus to requirements at Liverpool and a loan would have given the opportunity for him to find some form and for them either to sell to us a the end of the season, or to someone else. If they hadn't gone for it then I think we would have been better to walk away from the deal because even at his peak Keane was never a £15m player.

I also don't agree with you re Keane's performance against 'Boro, although you can argue that either way and could provide dozens of players to offer as evidence for both sides. I don't have the energy to do that now. :lol:

I'm not agruing that he was over priced or even a panic buy, but he was a risk worth taking at the time. You can't and haven't convinced me that he wasn't a big part of why we stayed up.

I can't prove a negative, you are right. And if you're not convinced by my other arguments then fair enough, my reasoning is far from conclusive I agree.

I think we've found some middle ground on the "over-priced" and "panic buy" thing, and we've finally come to a point of cordially disagreement on the "risk worth taking" part :up:

 

[NEVILLEB]

This page is a perfect example of why you shouldn't rely on statistics to form your opinion.

However many goals Keane actually scored, the main reason Redknapp got him back was to bring back leadership, work rate and desire to the side.

He was an incredibly popular member of the squad before he left and his return lifted every single person in it.

He didn't score the goals as many goals as we wanted him too but, along with Palacios, he brought back a winning attitude that saw us rise to safety.

Stay off the stats...trust your instincts

 

[NEVILLEB]

p.s

Why would Man City sell us Adebayor if they wouldn't sell us Bellamy?

Doesn't make sense

 

[Ron Burgundy]

p.s

Why would Man City sell us Adebayor if they wouldn't sell us Bellamy?

Doesn't make sense

If they no longer saw us as a direct competitor for their targets, which, I hate to say, we are not

They'll be 3rd minimum - we're chasing 4th maximum

 

[cusop]

p.s

Why would Man City sell us Adebayor if they wouldn't sell us Bellamy?

Doesn't make sense

Cos no one will go for him

 

[Mr Pink]

p.s

Why would Man City sell us Adebayor if they wouldn't sell us Bellamy?

Doesn't make sense

a) they hadn't made CL at that point
b) not desperate to off load then, now upcoming FFP regs and 25 man squads
c) his wages arn't as big (Bellamy)
d) they have just signed one of the best players in the world and now have an abundance of forwards
e) probably don't see us as a direct threat to them anymore, we are in a second tier with Pool and Arsenal - they're in the company of United and Chelsea.
f) they might not have any choice, if Real dont want Adebayor then we are probably his next choice and unless they want to be paying someone who isn't in there 25 man squad....Adebayor will have a lot of sway in where he ends up.

 

[Rout-Ledge]

I would still be surprised if City agreed to us having Adebayor, but I'm hopeful.

I do think there should be some sort of rule about letting players go if they don't even make the squad and there is a team that wants them, with the player willing to join. Seems like madness to encourage the rotting of players.

 

[Rabbi_Krustofski]

I can't understand why clubs can't initially agree deals before te window opens, then seal them, exchange cash etc when it does. Surely this occurs, as you see players move days after.

 

[brett.spurs]

So Harry watching Bryan Ruiz tonight. Should this not have been done yonks ago? What the hell is going on :x

 

[Mr Pink]

So Harry watching Bryan Ruiz tonight. Should this not have been done yonks ago? What the hell is going on :x

Archie saying he's watching Cardozo :bang:

 

[brett.spurs]

That's even worse.

Oh shit, he scored tonight too Eek

 

[Mr Pink]

That's even worse.

Oh shit, he scored tonight too Eek

I would say its Ruiz he's watching though if we are close to Adebayor....although could be watching both.

 

[brett.spurs]

Neither are good enough, I give up.

 

[Rout-Ledge]

So Harry watching Bryan Ruiz tonight. Should this not have been done yonks ago? What the hell is going on :x

Exactly. The season has begun, the time for jollies abroad to check out players is over. We should at the very very least know exactly who we're going for now.

 

[NEVILLEB]

I'd still be very surprised if we got Adebayor

Just can't see them helping us get stronger

 

[SpurSince57]

I can't understand why clubs can't initially agree deals before te window opens, then seal them, exchange cash etc when it does. Surely this occurs, as you see players move days after.

Yes, but there's a great many things you can't understand, aren't there?

 

[SpurSince57]

So Harry watching Bryan Ruiz tonight. Should this not have been done yonks ago? What the hell is going on :x

How do you know it wasn't?