Shortcomings with zonal marking

[BoringOldFan]

I was at the game yesterday and it was clear to me that although this new system has improved our defence at corners/set pieces, other teams are working it out.

Specifically at their first goal, McFadden just stood at the far post and then came off it unmarked to cross to Forsell. The 'zone' seems to be between the two goalposts. We have two lines of four lines up, one on the edge of the six-yard area and the other in line with the penalty spot.

At one of the later corners, fans were screaming at Huddlestone to mark the player at the far post, but he just stuck to the position he'd been told to occupy. We got away with it that time, but I think Ramos and Gus need to tweak the tactic pronto.

 

[MattyP]

And I'm sure they will.

Actually it is a positive that Hudd was disciplined enough to ignore the fans and remain in the position he was supposed to be in, as a lot of people, fans and commentators alike, are only focusing on the man marking approach and scream when there is no traditional style marking going on.

Takes a bit of getting used to, but I quite like the collective responsibility of defending. Let's face it, we were bloody poor at man marking, someone always used to switch off and mostly it was different people at different times.

When zonal goes wrong it looks just terrible, but generally I've had less nightmares about corners since we introduced it. It will take time to fully perfect, and as you say some tweaks may be needed, but yesterday apart we are defending set pieces better.

A bad day at the office all round. Maybe someone should star more threads blaming individuals with funny quips on their names, like Useless Kaboul, paul wronginson. If only I could think of one for Chris Gunter.....

 

[eViL]

The switch to Zonal marking has shored up our defence until yesterday.

Man marking was pointless because no-one was looking to actually win the ball in the first place.

I say stick with it and put it down as a bad day at the office.

 

[striebs]

Isn't it a case of doing what you can with the people you've got available ?

Keeping it simple as Gus would say ?

 

[al_pacino]

Ther is a reason why not many clubs use zonal marking, its strength is when your opponent puts the ball into the "danger" area and your players attack the ball. Problems occur when they go nowhere near your marked area, like man u did often, you end up with players in a lot of space and our defence not knowing whether to mark a man or stay in their zone.

 

[tommo84]

I'm happy with the zonal approach. The goal we conceded yesterday from a corner wasn't just down to the zonal marking, it was down to zonal marking being poorly executed by the players and going to sleep when the first ball reached McFadden.

 

[nicdic]

There were two problems with the goal yesterday.

1) Chimbonda should have had his eye on McFadden.
2) Tainio should have stayed on the post. If he stays there he clears the header.

 

[SpurSince57]

There were two problems with the goal yesterday.

1) Chimbonda should have had his eye on McFadden.
2) Tainio should have stayed on the post. If he stays there he clears the header.

I couldn't believe that. Alonso Jr. did precisely the same thing earlier in the season, with precisely the same result. Jääskeläinen went totally ballistic. Tainio ended up trying to occupy the same space as Robbo in the box.

 

[eViL]

I couldn't believe that. Alonso Jr. did precisely the same thing earlier in the season, with precisely the same result. Jääskeläinen went totally ballistic. Tainio ended up trying to occupy the same space as Robbo in the box.

Maybe he's got his eye on Robbo's job?

 

[vegassd]

I couldn't believe that. Alonso Jr. did precisely the same thing earlier in the season, with precisely the same result. Jääskeläinen went totally ballistic. Tainio ended up trying to occupy the same space as Robbo in the box.

Only problem staying on the post is that he plays everybody on side I guess.

I reckon the big problem with the zonal system is when you starting changing the personnel on the pitch and you get people defending a zone they are not used to. Plus the potential height mismatches when Tainio and O'Hara are defending crucial positions.

 

[lennon321g]

we have no other option. man marking doesn't work for us.

 

[claw_diddy]

Our defensive mentality was just plain wrong on Sat. Just a blip, not a regression to pre-Ramos form I'm sure.

A good test of our bounce-backability again this Thurs. We were poor against Slavia before beating Chelsea, so let's hope we can turn a negative performance on it's head in our next game again.

 

[worcestersauce]

Zonal Marking has clearly helped us and if during it's execution people seem a little lost when the ball goes out of the zoned area it may be because our players are still learning it.
First thing is to get it right to stop shipping goals and then develop it to take account of variations, you don't flavour the sauce before you've made the roux.

Saturdays game was a good example of how tough the premiership is, you can't drop your effort and performance by much before you get punished it was probably a good lesson to learn.

 

[BoringOldFan]

we have no other option. man marking doesn't work for us.

I agree with that, lennon. It's just that in the aftermath of the Villa game we went several matches without conceding from set pieces, and now we've let in two or three. So maybe a tweak on what we have, rather than another wholesale change, is required?

 

[Kendall]

I think the tweak would not be having midfielders playing in defence.

 

[michaelden]

you have to remember it took the Liverpool players a while to get to grips with the zonal system but they are pretty good now. Better last season but they too have had injuries; D.Agger being the most relevant.

We too shall get better.

 

[bubble07]

we should mark the zone with ione player man marking a player outside the zone like mcfden in that case. We cannot leave someone completly free 2 yards from goal. But we cannot deny that zonal marking is such an improvemement. There is more of a collective responsibility rather then individual resonsibility which I think is better

 

[fozzi44]

i just dont think any of us are in a position to question Ramos tactics. If he wants zonal marking then there is a good reason for it.

Questioning players though is fine, expecially when they are guilty of ball watching, or not as the case may be.

 

[SpurSince57]

Only problem staying on the post is that he plays everybody on side I guess.

I reckon the big problem with the zonal system is when you starting changing the personnel on the pitch and you get people defending a zone they are not used to. Plus the potential height mismatches when Tainio and O'Hara are defending crucial positions.

That's the trade-off, but Tainio was still playing everyone onside when he moved.

In the end, I think we were undone by some pretty eccentric team selections. OK, King, Woodgate and Dawson were unavailable (and Rocha appears to have been consigned to the Outer Darkness), but why Tainio at LB? Or as a full-back of any kind? Why not continue with Chimbonda there and play the Hudd or Zoko alongside Kaboul, with Tainio or O'Hara at CM?

On 949 Bradley Allen, who's one of the most astute summarisers on radio or TV, was pointing out almost from the off that Tainio just didn't know what to do, especially when he had the ball coming over his shoulder.

The problem wasn't just with the zonal marking, though. The Brummies seemed to be able to go through us at will from open play.

 

[DogsOfWar]

The majority of our defensive woes still come from the triumvirate of the two CBs and the keeper.

Robbo is not strong in the air so the opposition put the ball on top of him, if King and Woodgate are in front of him it's not a problem, as we saw on Sunday, but when it's two out of Kaboul/Dawson/Chimbo/Zokora it is.

It's chicken and egg. If we want to defend well we either need a keeper who can protect young/inexperienced CBs or two CBs who can protect the keeper but not both.

Personally, it's a price I would pay if it means putting out a full strength side on Thursday.