Spurs and VAR

[Griff001]

Would it need to track anyone? If you could get an overhead picture of the entire pitch, or two cameras doing half a pitch each, then you should be able to easily see each players position.

I agree with this. As long as it could clearly show the point the ball leaves the players foot, then a video referee should be able to look at the still picture at that point and pretty easily see offside or not. Surely more-so than the angled cam they use at the moment.

2 static cams covering half the pitch each would be fine I reckon.

 

[Serpico]

Two refs on the pitch one in each half. Football will not allow this as its too accurate. VAR should be used to be viewed pitch side by more than one official. The ref should have viewed Kane and o.g.
Every big decision should be viewed.

 

[ShelfWatcher]

The semi-automated offside is coming to the World Cup next year and probably the PL in the year after. There won't be a person drawing the lines anymore it will be automated. But it won't change the fact that offside decisions like this will continue to happen. They'll just be quicker from the VAR.

Yep, semi automated may be more accurate. I know I will still want thicker lines though

 

[Serpico]

Football wants refs and VAR to be ambiguous because it suits. football is not 100% honest and never will be. It will never be improved because its not wanted.
Just use the same technology as snooker, the cameras are there, the software is available. This would give an accurate placement of each player. Just a thought.

 

[JCRD]

Yep, semi automated may be more accurate. I know I will still want thicker lines though

If yiu had thicker lines... Kane would have still shown to be offside as both lines would be the same width lines... Or am I misunderstanding?

 

[Griff001]

If yiu had thicker lines... Kane would have still shown to be offside as both lines would be the same width lines... Or am I misunderstanding?

I guess if Kane's line is thicker backwards, and the defenders line thicker towards Kane, then it helps him...I think?

 

[Serpico]

Does anyone know if it would be feasible to use overhead cameras for offside decisions?

I seen it on tv where computer software processes information and give a 100% accurate overview from using side cameras.

 

[limmel]

Honestly, this is last time I discuss this. It was clear at the time and from a picture on this thread, he has hands on the ball. Therefore Taylor like pretty much every Prem ref is going to call a foul when he sees Doherty in contact with him and the keeper drops the ball
It's pretty much an automatic reaction, Taylor gives the correct call
If the goal had been given there would have been howls of outrage and probably the officials would have been censured by their bosses.
It was a foul, correctly given
Nothing is going to change my mind, and I guarantee Taylor will face no criticism from his bosses, because they too will see it as the correct decision
It's the Kane goal I feel strongly about and want to discuss at length, not this one ?

Love that you have said that this is the last time. So I will do the same, It wasn't a foul in any way, should be howls of outrage from us. But it's Spurs so.....

 

[taidgh]

Two refs on the pitch one in each half. Football will not allow this as its too accurate. VAR should be used to be viewed pitch side by more than one official. The ref should have viewed Kane and o.g.
Every big decision should be viewed.

Two different people making decisions on what they feel is right. Or else leaving a call for the other to make. It just doesn't work, which is why fifa doesn't endorse it.

 

[cwy21]

Football wants refs and VAR to be ambiguous because it suits. football is not 100% honest and never will be. It will never be improved because its not wanted.
Just use the same technology as snooker, the cameras are there, the software is available. This would give an accurate placement of each player. Just a thought.

It's already coming. The system is going to be used at the World Cup that tracks the exact position of every player and their limbs for offside. Probably in the PL for 2023.

 

[limmel]

Beware of the unintended consequences of this. Because if the image below turns into onside as you're proposing (and Wenger), then you have to imagine teams would probably end up playing much deeper and more defensively since a fast player running onto a ball over the top becomes a much bigger threat.

Why is this relevant, clearly offside. Surely?

 

[cwy21]

Two different people making decisions on what they feel is right. Or else leaving a call for the other to make. It just doesn't work, which is why fifa doesn't endorse it.

It failed miserably when it was tested in the 90s. Although this was before the communication headsets so it might work better now. Also considering that in less than a decade of Assistant referees will probably not be needed, maybe they will end up switching to it or at least giving it another chance. Although we still use this system on occasion in the US in our scholastic leagues and I hate it with every fiber of my soul.

 

[cwy21]

Why is this relevant, clearly offside. Surely?

The user suggested as has Wenger that if any part of a player is onside then they should be considered onside. I'm posting an example of a player that would be onside in that situation using that rule that has been proposed by a number of people in football.

 

[Serpico]

Two different people making decisions on what they feel is right. Or else leaving a call for the other to make. It just doesn't work, which is why fifa doesn't endorse

It failed miserably when it was tested in the 90s. Although this was before the communication headsets so it might work better now. Also considering that in less than a decade of Assistant referees will probably not be needed, maybe they will end up switching to it or at least giving it another chance. Although we still use this system on occasion in the US in our scholastic leagues and I hate it with every fiber of my soul.

How accurate is it?

 

[ShelfWatcher]

If yiu had thicker lines... Kane would have still shown to be offside as both lines would be the same width lines... Or am I misunderstanding?

The idea is the lines are drawn thicker to favour the attacker. How you do it in practice I leave to the experts. But basically the attacker currently has a 5 cm tolerance line. I would extend that to 10 cm.
The way I envisage it is the attackers line is minimal, basically 0 cm, whereas the line behind the defender goes back 10 cms.
My guess is it would take a ref and a software expert an hour max to come up with the best way to draw such lines.

 

[stormfly]

Just saw Foden’s goal for Man City today. Looks more offside than Kane’s but guess what…

 

[ShelfWatcher]

Just saw Foden’s goal for Man City today. Looks more offside than Kane’s but guess what…

Again it comes back to what MK was talking about, deceptive camera angles, system calibration etc
We have to assume the lines are being drawn correctly as far as humanly possible.
When a semi or indeed fully automated system is brought in, then there should be zero error, hopefully ?

 

[cwy21]

My argument since the start of VAR was to use the kick point and then the frame before and after. Only if the player is offside and all three frames are they offside (or could do only if all three frames agree on changing the on field decision). If the semi-automated offside is as quick as they say perhaps something like this can be instituted.

 

[JimmyG2]

I remember that football match as if it were but 2 days ago.
It was never offside I could not BELIEVE that decision!I

 

[bomberH]

Dermot Gallagher on SSN saying Kane wasn’t a pen ‘because they were both grappling and Kane didn’t make a fuss of it’. In other words, he should’ve dived?

Dier…… he said a foul should’ve been awarded against Dier!! Also said Mane was never a sending off because he hit him with his forearm instead of his elbow.

Just weird.