Spurs have done everything right: if they cannot succeed, who can?

[the watson]

What parts of the post do you disagree with?

I'll bite.

We haven't quite done everything though, have we? The stadiums not generating extra revenue yet.

Maybe let us build it first before bemoaning a lack of revenue?

We've produced a number of don't care enough displays in the domestic cups, with the head coach making unhelpful comments about the value of these prizes that at least half the fan base doesn't agree with

A league cup final and an FA cup semi final under Poch isn't too bad, considering our impressive league performances. We don't have the squad to compete on all fronts yet.

We've made a series of poor signings in forward areas, and didn't have to let Walker go.

Son and Dele have been decent, it's not unique to Spurs to make a couple of dud signings.

We play an unbalanced midfield when Sissoko is in there.

I don't rate Sissoko either but he's been ever present this season. We've done well to still be in top 4 mix with an 'unbalanced' midfield.

We can beat anyone at home, or at Wembley, yet seem to lack belief against the same teams away.

Haven't you just described home field advantage? Our records at Anfield and SB are shite and worth criticism though.

We fanny about with the ball in our last third against the best and quickest pressing teams, with Dier, Trips and Hugo guilty of getting caught out.

We could just as easily get caught out if we boot it up the field and don't win the first and second ball. Our success rate playing out the back doesn't feel any worse than our rivals bar City.

Can we show tomorrow that the last two factors can be overcome?

I've been buzzing since walking away from Wembley on Weds, like we all have, but have my doubts about tomorrow...

Coys

I don't think this team is above criticism, but your post was really harsh IMO.

 

[Shadydan]

What parts of the post do you disagree with?

Selling Walker and lacking belief against teams away from home mainly but it's the unnecessary nit picking context of the post more than anything that I don't agree with.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Yep, this one: https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ongevity-economic-gravity-mauricio-pochettino

It was a really weird read.

That’s also a great piece which doesn’t contradict today’s in any way. He’s saying much the same. Praising us but caveating it with the same things as above.

 

[Univarn]

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...mauricio-pochettino-model-club-cannot-succeed


Spurs have done everything right: if they cannot succeed, who can?
If football is not merely to be the propaganda wing of petro-inflated billionaires, Tottenham must be the model – yet they face Liverpool on Sunday with their position precarious

Jonathan Wilson

• There is an awkwardness to the situation in which Tottenham find themselves, a hollowness that should reverberate around all of modern football. Over the past three seasons they have probably been the best side in the Premier League. They have improved each year under Mauricio Pochettino. Their squad is perhaps better than ever before, certainly than it has been for half a century. They are a young, developing side, with an impressive young manager. They play progressive, modern football. They can press high or sit off and look to play on the break. And yet everything they do exists in a vacuum of impossibility; success a staging post to a destination that may lie for ever out of reach.
  
  Once they had found their equaliser at Newport, last week could not have gone much better for Tottenham. Not only did they beat Manchester United but two of their top-six rivals slipped to surprising defeats. The gap from Spurs in fifth to United in second could have been 11 points; instead it is five, while Arsenal are six behind. Having broken the jinx last season, those days when Spurs finished behind their neighbours look to have been consigned to history.
  
  This has been a memorable season. They have taken four points off Real Madrid and six off Borussia Dortmund in the Champions League. They have outplayed Manchester United at home. They are averaging almost two goals a game. Twenty years ago, their average of a fraction under two points per game would have had them in the thick of the title race. This season they are 20 points adrift and, for all that has gone right, they risk missing out on Champions League qualification.

Their position is precarious. Without Champions League football, how many of this squad might consider their options? As Danny Rose made clear in the summer, the players are very aware that they could follow Kyle Walker in leaving the club to double their money elsewhere. Without the revenue of Champions League football, it will be all the harder for Tottenham to offer the pay rises that might placate those whose heads are turned. Without Champions League football, how easy will it be to maintain the belief this is a project worth sticking with?

That question should concern everybody involved in football. Tottenham have done just about everything right. They have not overspent. They have developed talent they either bought young or produced themselves. They have sought to increase revenues with investment in infrastructure. If football is not merely to be the propaganda wing of petro-inflated billionaires, that must be the model clubs are encouraged to follow. Fans used to dream of salvation through a great generation of young players or a messianic manager; now advancement comes by catching the eye of a passing oligarch or sheikh.


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‘Everything they do exists in a vacuum of impossibility.’ Photograph: Facundo Arrizabalaga/EPA
Yet Tottenham exist constantly in earshot of a ticking clock, of players and perhaps a manager who cannot be expected to resist the lure of greater financial rewards for ever. Perhaps the fleetingness of the moment enhances its appeal but from a pragmatic point of view the best they can hope for is that this generation is raising funds and the club’s profile for a title challenge in a few years’ time, when Manchester City are no longer elevated by the combination of Abu Dhabi’s wealth and Pep Guardiola’s genius.

Liverpool’s situation is not entirely dissimilar, although they are far less constrained by a rigid wage structure. Both sides are capable of hammering opponents. Get a lead, and they can tear sides apart with rapid counters. But a major doubt remains about both. For Liverpool, it is the sense that once an opponent gets beyond the press there is a profound fragility. The signing of Virgil van Dijk may help remedy that vulnerability but, as West Brom proved, it has not erased it.

For Tottenham, the flaw is an occasional flatness. That may in part this season have been caused by their evolution into a more flexible side, one that does not need to dominate possession to dominate games and occasionally struggles, particularly against lesser sides, to get the balance right. But it is also down to a reliance on Christian Eriksen, a problem exacerbated by Dele Alli’s suspect form this season and Moussa Sissoko’s unreliability.

The Dane has missed only seven games this season: two straightforward Champions League wins over Apoel and an FA Cup victory over AFC Wimbledon, but there has also been a grim 1-0 win over Barnsley in the Carabao Cup, defeat by West Ham in the same competition and draws against Southampton and Newport. When Eriksen is not there, Spurs look short of creative flair. The return from injury of Érik Lamela and the signing of Lucas Moura should ease that, but the dependence is at least in part an issue of a lack of squad depth.

Eriksen is back and Liverpool’s high press means his capacity to unlock massed defences is anyway less likely to be relevant on Sunday, but the feeling that none of it really matters, nags that this is all a fantasy of jam tomorrow. Spurs have to glance four miles to the south to see those dreams can be sustained only for so long.

Two general thoughts on this.

1) Based solely on my past readings of his work, which is limited, this man may well be the most pessimistic human to have ever loved football. Please someone get him a cuddle, or a cat, or lubricant... something.
2) The fact that it is well written doesn't make it necessarily true and a lot of what he says is set on the presumption that out project is nearing its completion rather than the real ignition (new stadium)

 

[coys200]

I think the perception of success is changing. With now 6 big clubs entrenched and only 3 domestic trophies you can’t judge everything on trophies. If say we had won x2 FA cups in last 5 years but we’re finishing 7th/8th I think the whole club picture would feel much more negative. Arsenal x3 FA Cup has done very little to lift the gloom over there. Success has to be looked at as a much bigger picture. Over the last 10 years we’ve put a fantastic infrastructure in place that should see us in a very good place for the next 10 years. A very solid platform to Hopefully start collecting silverware. I’d call that success.

 

[yiddopaul]

We haven't quite done everything though, have we? The stadiums not generating extra revenue yet.

We've produced a number of don't care enough displays in the domestic cups, with the head coach making unhelpful comments about the value of these prizes that at least half the fan base doesn't agree with

We've made a series of poor signings in forward areas, and didn't have to let Walker go.

We play an unbalanced midfield when Sissoko is in there.

We can beat anyone at home, or at Wembley, yet seem to lack belief against the same teams away.

We fanny about with the ball in our last third against the best and quickest pressing teams, with Dier, Trips and Hugo guilty of getting caught out.

Can we show tomorrow that the last two factors can be overcome?

I've been buzzing since walking away from Wembley on Weds, like we all have, but have my doubts about tomorrow...

Coys

We haven't quite done everything though, have we? The stadiums not generating extra revenue yet.

We've produced a number of don't care enough displays in the domestic cups, with the head coach making unhelpful comments about the value of these prizes that at least half the fan base doesn't agree with

We've made a series of poor signings in forward areas, and didn't have to let Walker go.

We play an unbalanced midfield when Sissoko is in there.

We can beat anyone at home, or at Wembley, yet seem to lack belief against the same teams away.

We fanny about with the ball in our last third against the best and quickest pressing teams, with Dier, Trips and Hugo guilty of getting caught out.

Can we show tomorrow that the last two factors can be overcome?

I've been buzzing since walking away from Wembley on Weds, like we all have, but have my doubts about tomorrow...

Coys

I thought our away results over the last few years has been some of the best in the Prem. We are much more likely to win away than 5 years ago, say. If you mean against the top six, then most of the top six will have poorer results against each other away from home than in their home fixtures (home being an advantage n all that).

 

[yiddopaul]

Leicester city.

Fluke. Never planned. Year before nearly relegated. Never going to sustain success. We started when Levy took over what 15 years ago? Best training facilities in Europe to grow our own stars...check. Get CL...Check. Build world class stadium...check. That’s how you build a team.

 

[WiganSpur]

We've had a chronic injury list yes but although that alone is likely not our fault, what is our fault is in some instances a lack of planning or foresight should these scenarios happen. To add to that these scenarios happen pretty regularly- in fact they've happened now in 3 of the last 4 seasons under Poch.

In recent years we have done OK in the transfer market but just that. In recent summers we have bought well but have still failed to address some issues with our squad depth. That imo is a combination of questionable scouting and a failure to get necessary deals over the line.

Simply put we are not going to win the league with backup players like Llorente, Janssen, Sissoko, Nkoudou etc. Our problem is that when a few injuries hit we are left with these players in and around the squad and inevitably the wheels start to come off. Additonally when the first team is through a poor run of form there is no substitute players to give them a kick up the arse. Let's be honest who'd be afraid of losing their place to those 4 players above? As Poch always says, you need to feel the competition as a player.

This window just gone was a great start in bringing in Moura as it has helped address exactly what I have just mentioned. We are now imo basically one big (and successful) CM signing away from something special next season. Let's just pray that nobody leaves.

 

[Mullers]

Fluke. Never planned. Year before nearly relegated. Never going to sustain success. We started when Levy took over what 15 years ago? Best training facilities in Europe to grow our own stars...check. Get CL...Check. Build world class stadium...check. That’s how you build a team.

That wasn't a fluke, they only lost 3 games all season the manager got the best out of the players, he turned nobodies into stars. It was the best managerial and team achievement I've ever seen.

 

[cliff jones]

Our away form against top six sides is wank no dispute there but I can't see us losing tomorrow if that is any consolation.

I didn't feel as confident as you but it's pretty obvious that the team selection/tactics and mentality in these fixtures remains a big problem.

Shoehorning an underperforming Alli into the team, Dier making costly mistakes, Hugo's kicking. The unexpected additional issue was Sanchez yesterday.

I was thrilled with the second half, and the point gained, but that's not the exam question here- have we done everything right?
No, we haven't.

 

[shelfboy68]

I didn't feel as confident as you but it's pretty obvious that the team selection/tactics and mentality in these fixtures remains a big problem.

Shoehorning an underperforming Alli into the team, Dier making costly mistakes, Hugo's kicking. The unexpected additional issue was Sanchez yesterday.

I was thrilled with the second half, and the point gained, but that's not the exam question here- have we done everything right?
No, we haven't.

We are not there agreed but we are not far off though are we.

 

[StartingPrice]

Two general thoughts on this.

1) Based solely on my past readings of his work, which is limited, this man may well be the most pessimistic human to have ever loved football. Please someone get him a cuddle, or a cat, or lubricant... something.
2) The fact that it is well written doesn't make it necessarily true and a lot of what he says is set on the presumption that out project is nearing its completion rather than the real ignition (new stadium)

I can't really comment on 1 (cat probably for the best).

But in regard to 2, I agree with you. I see a few of this type of article and while it is edifying to see media folk not falling into the whole Sporty Casual Pep puclic player tapping up passive/aggressive fapp-fest, there are certain features they always seem to have...and this one certainly does.

Firstly, the discuss everything that could go wrong - failure to attain CL, not winning any trophies, players jumping ship for bigger wages - but rarely actually discuss the new stadium something that is going to push the club forward. Even when they do, he mentions the infrastructural development, it isn't actually analysed as something the club will receive dividends from in the future. It is like it is a past tense already, even though we have only had the negatives so far, paying for it, and not the positives, increased gate receipts, greater bargaining power for sponsorship etc., greater exposure as a brand (with the American Football, for instance).

Secondly, they almost all, invariably discuss failure to attain CL football and the negative consequences. But we have just played possibly our hardest remaining fixture (Liverpool, technically SB should be just as hard, but the Chavs are seemingly in disarray ATM...we can hope). We are on good form. We are finally getting players back from injury. We have hitherto benefited from our greater fitness to produce our best form in the second half of the season - there is no reason this one will be any different. We are technically outside of the top four ATM, but not by a long way. Some of our rivals for those three spots (accepting City are out of sight now) are in much poorer form than us. I'm actually quite confident that we will finish somewhere between 2nd and 4th. On top of which, what if we do fail to finish in the top four? Levy has been known to budget for a season without taking into account CL money. He may well do the same now - none of them even consider this. We will also be moving into a plush new stadium, and I suspect a lot of the players, particularly the younger/fan ones, will be eager to be a part of that, even without CL football.

Thirdly, they all reference not winning trophies as though it is some decisive thing that is already decided. It isn't. We could well win something this season. Even if Guardiola is at City and they continue to buy success, they won't win every single trophy. Personally, and I no this worries the nay sayers, like I am triggering an ancient curse and waking a dormant monster, but I think we will win trophies under Pochettino - and I'm not just talking CC, or even FA Cup. But if you listen to them, it's like we won't win anything this season and that will be an end to all trophy winning ambitions and everyone will jump ship. It ain't necessarily so.

Fourthly, as you say, we are not at the end of our project, we are only now entering the most exciting phase of it, in terms of winning potential - personally, I believe, and have consistently argued, that we are in exciting times, ever since Levy sacked GHodd and spent a year investigating best practices on the Continent. He came home and focused on development of young players. This had a time-lag before it really started producing - and now we have whole development squads filled with talent. With a great, young squad and manager, ready to draw on them. Moving into a new stadium. As you say, it is not the end of the project more like we have been building the launch pad and are almost ready for take-off.

Still, nice to see someone in the media that actually gets that we are the good guys and not the arch villains trying to ruin the glorious Sun of Chelsea and City with our low spending bullshit

 

[midoNdefoe]

I didn't feel as confident as you but it's pretty obvious that the team selection/tactics and mentality in these fixtures remains a big problem.

Shoehorning an underperforming Alli into the team, Dier making costly mistakes, Hugo's kicking. The unexpected additional issue was Sanchez yesterday.

I was thrilled with the second half, and the point gained, but that's not the exam question here- have we done everything right?
No, we haven't.

Thats the worst exam question ever?!

Will anyone ever do 'everything right'?

No, so its just a pointlessly pessimistic view to hold. IMO

 

[cliff jones]

Thats the worst exam question ever?!

Will anyone ever do 'everything right'?

No, so its just a pointlessly pessimistic view to hold. IMO

I think the article was pointless, or premature at best. Not me or anyone else challenging its suppositions.

The last two away performances have been hugely encouraging and a cause for real optimism. But do look at the recent away stats against fellow big boys. Yes, I fkin love being able to type fellow big boys.

When people occupy extremes, like the author here, or the happy clappers, I'll probably pop up with a challenge. What's the board for otherwise?

 

[Donki]

I think the article was pointless, or premature at best. Not me or anyone else challenging its suppositions.

The last two away performances have been hugely encouraging and a cause for real optimism. But do look at the recent away stats against fellow big boys. Yes, I fkin love being able to type fellow big boys.

When people occupy extremes, like the author here, or the happy clappers, I'll probably pop up with a challenge. What's the board for otherwise?

While your at it look at the amount the fellow big boys have spent in comparison, and yes it does matter. The media is quick to point out how poor Poch is against the rest of the top for but fails to point out just how much money Pep, Jose and Klopp have spent to get to where they are.

 

['O Zio]

Based solely on my past readings of his work, which is limited, this man may well be the most pessimistic human to have ever loved football. Please someone get him a cuddle, or a cat, or lubricant... something.

In fairness, if I were a Sunderland fan or even just had to spend an extended period of my life in Sunderland, I'd be a miserable git too

 

[cliff jones]

While your at it look at the amount the fellow big boys have spent in comparison, and yes it does matter. The media is quick to point out how poor Poch is against the rest of the top for but fails to point out just how much money Pep, Jose and Klopp have spent to get to where they are.

of course it's relevant. But you're still missing the point. Which is we haven't done everything, yet. Instead of spending more than the usual not very much and paying not much more than Everton or West Ham in wages, Levy has been quietly paying off the stadium. And the stadium isn't yet generating. So that's why the article is pointless and premature.

 

[Shadydan]

of course it's relevant. But you're still missing the point. Which is we haven't done everything, yet. Instead of spending more than the usual not very much and paying not much more than Everton or West Ham in wages, Levy has been quietly paying off the stadium. And the stadium isn't yet generating. So that's why the article is pointless and premature.

If we were the perfect club I reckon you'd try your best to find something to moan about.

 

[cliff jones]

If we were the perfect club I reckon you'd try your best to find something to moan about.

who's moaning? I'm calling the article out. Christ you're dull.

 

[slartibartfast]

To spend is to do.

Who spends wins.

He who spends Rodders.