Spurs U21’s, U18’s and other youth news – 2015/16 Edition

[Bofbro]

Am hoping that we can watch Copa Chivas on stream - looking forward to see how he plays (and maybe other u16's, haven't seen a squad list yet) and to see more of Tracey too


jayy‏@jadenlively
Mexico tomorrow

Flying tomorrow by the looks of it

One to look out for,, I'll post any stream if I find one.

 

[Shadydan]

Tottenham Academy‏@thfcacademy
#THFC U21s this season: 13 games, 30 goals (most in the league) and 29 conceded (second highest in the league).

One thing I noticed our youngsters are doing now is playing out from the back and as a result we are being pressed high up the pitch whicg leads to a lot of errors resulting in goals, I wonder if a lot of those goals are down to that.

I don't mind that tbh, a lot of young players lack the composure and maturity to play when they're pressed but at long as they are learning.

 

[beats1]

You say that about Ehiogu but wasn't he coaching the u16s in the 13-14 season which would be our currently really poor 2nd year group. The only two players he wouldn't have been coaching from that age group are our only really top players i.e. Glover, Maghoma and CCV. Hopefully it's just coincidental

I thought he maybe there longer but you are clearly right and tbf at the start of that season he would be coaching Maghoma and CCV and that age group does seem to be stronger defensively than the previous generation, which Im hoping is a coincidence.

He was hired it seems after he was involved with the England U20's with Chris Ramsey, which is interesting

Im not impressed by the other U21 coaches as well, I don't understand the Brush thing as well but you would think the club is in a better position to judge coaches than us but this isn't the same team we had all those years ago. Which lost all its best players but still played the same way

That josh Onomah kid is doing ok at spurs

Sorry could not help it, agree with your point though.

TBF I don't think anyone at the club knows he is a CM either, all his coaches have pretty much deserted him lol until he got to the U21's under Ehiogu who played him further forward.

That said last season we weren't moaning about the system or at least I don't remember moaning

 

[Spursidol]

One thing I noticed our youngsters are doing now is playing out from the back and as a result we are being pressed high up the pitch whicg leads to a lot of errors resulting in goals, I wonder if a lot of those goals are down to that.

I don't mind that tbh, a lot of young players lack the composure and maturity to play when they're pressed but at long as they are learning.

Some maybe but we've often played out from the back.

For some reason, whilst we are scoring goals we are letting on a lot too, and think its more that we don't defend as a team - maybe a surprise as Ehiogu was a decent defender in his time, but the team doesn't reflect that.

If you read a number of posts on the thread we're not sure Ehiogu is ,making the most of the players available to him and think that's an even bigger issue than playing out from the back.

 

[beats1]

One thing I noticed our youngsters are doing now is playing out from the back and as a result we are being pressed high up the pitch whicg leads to a lot of errors resulting in goals, I wonder if a lot of those goals are down to that.

I don't mind that tbh, a lot of young players lack the composure and maturity to play when they're pressed but at long as they are learning.

We have always been playing out of the back but imo the CB are uninterested if Im being brutally honest. Both are past this level and are pretty much like our first team during a europa match and happy to coast

 

[beats1]

Whilst I see what your saying and I can totally see your point watching him over the last few years he really has gone on as player. I thought that having him around the first team was a reasonable call to be honest and I felt he deserved it. He hasn't had opportunities as I thought he might get but that's largely because we have been doing pretty well.

In hindsight a loan would have given him the opportunities but that's easy to say now. I don't think we can say he has regressed as a player but neither can we say that he has gone forward without seeing a lot more of him.

I disagree, at the start of the season I mentioned its worth keeping Onomah for Central AM spot but I never saw how Winks would get a look.

Just to look at our midfield options, we had at the start of the season these guys as our options:
Mason, Bentaleb, Dier, Alli, Carroll and Dembele

I never saw how we would get winks minutes. Even Alli has been fortunate that Mason and Bentaleb got injured early in the season to get a shot before he slowly worked his way in to the team as it seemed after the everton match our CM of Dier, Mason and Bentaleb would be there for most of the season having put in a great display. Even Dembele has been fortunate abit as he seemed destined for the door at one point.

 

[Spursidol]

I thought he maybe there longer but you are clearly right and tbf at the start of that season he would be coaching Maghoma and CCV and that age group does seem to be stronger defensively than the previous generation, which Im hoping is a coincidence.

He was hired it seems after he was involved with the England U20's with Chris Ramsey, which is interesting

Im not impressed by the other U21 coaches as well, I don't understand the Brush thing as well but you would think the club is in a better position to judge coaches than us but this isn't the same team we had all those years ago. Which lost all its best players but still played the same way

TBF I don't think anyone at the club knows he is a CM either, all his coaches have pretty much deserted him lol until he got to the U21's under Ehiogu who played him further forward.

That said last season we weren't moaning about the system or at least I don't remember moaning

Brush seems to be coaching lower age groups now, not the u21's http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/academy/about-the-academy/ not sure if that's a good thing as not sure how good a youth coach he is.

 

[beats1]

@IGSpur , @beats1

Think we've all been pretty critical of both Ehiogu's squad selection and team selection, but assuming he can't change the squad, do you think he could get a better line up, for example playing Lesniak and Walkes as LB and RB respectively (although both are midfielders - and arguably DM's IMO both are reasonable defenders) allowing other players to play in their position, so the team lines up as say :

Glover
Walkes, Veljkovic, Carter-Vickers, Lesniak
Winks, Amos
Townsend, Miller or Pritchard, Sonupe or Georgiou
Coulthirst
​

Thought Miller played reasonably well first half and Pritchard seemed decent in his cameo, so think either could do well as no 10. I like Georgiou from the u18's but hasn't taken to u21's yet, whilst this was Sonupe's best showing for a couple of years imo, so either could get the LW position.

Thoughts ?

I actually thought despite being all over the place at times Georgiou showed some promise at LB today. Walkes is a RB and I never saw the fascination with playing him everywhere.

There is this new obsession in England youth football at the moment to have a big powerful AM who can attack like Toure but they totally forgot the bit where Toure was a very good DM and unlike these kids who are playing AM, had a good passing brain before he got to AM.

I like Lesniak at DM, he has showed some promise. My issue is less the selection bar walkes(and miller) and more the actual football being played and how we arent doing the basics properly

I also wouldn't have that Veljkovic and winks anywhere U21 football at the moment as its a pointless exercise and they will slowly lose interest. CCV also looks like he has nothing to learn from this level which isn't that surprising when you think about it.

CCV was starting at CB most of last season, U21 football should only be played for 1 or 2 seasons, depending on how person has progressed. The U21 league was stronger last year imo and I think he needs to learn in the real world rather than playing teams of a lower quality than a year ago.

 

[mpickard2087]

I think we've always conceded goals at U21 level. It is going to happen with the way we try to play, pressing high and playing out from the back and we have always usually had attack minded teams, fullbacks pushed right up etc.

As I've said a few times now though, our U21's seem to put in less coherent performances than a couple of years back especially tactically. Also I don't think the switch from 4-3-3 to more of a 4-2-3-1 has done much good.

 

[IGSpur]

One to look out for,, I'll post any stream if I find one.

I think you said earlier that you've seen Griffith play CM before how was he and where did you get to watch it? Thanks

I thought he maybe there longer but you are clearly right and tbf at the start of that season he would be coaching Maghoma and CCV and that age group does seem to be stronger defensively than the previous generation, which Im hoping is a coincidence.

He was hired it seems after he was involved with the England U20's with Chris Ramsey, which is interesting

Im not impressed by the other U21 coaches as well, I don't understand the Brush thing as well but you would think the club is in a better position to judge coaches than us but this isn't the same team we had all those years ago. Which lost all its best players but still played the same way

TBF I don't think anyone at the club knows he is a CM either, all his coaches have pretty much deserted him lol until he got to the U21's under Ehiogu who played him further forward.

That said last season we weren't moaning about the system or at least I don't remember moaning

Regarding the first bit that was also kind of my point. He wouldn't have worked with CCV and Maghoma as that season they were the main CB partnership for the u18s iirc. So they would have played under the u18s coach, so really noone from his u16 age group has turned out particularly good, which is concerning. People wonder why that age group is poor could that be the reason?

 

[IGSpur]

One thing I noticed our youngsters are doing now is playing out from the back and as a result we are being pressed high up the pitch whicg leads to a lot of errors resulting in goals, I wonder if a lot of those goals are down to that.

I don't mind that tbh, a lot of young players lack the composure and maturity to play when they're pressed but at long as they are learning.

A LOT of goals are due to that. Just last week our u18s conceded 3 goals at least down to defensive errors in trying to pass from the back, but it is the place to try it and make mistakes. At least they are comfortable and ready to do it at first team if the manager desires which is really what we are preparing them for. I'd estimate that from what I have seen at least 50% of our goals at 18 level are down to either intercepted or misplaced passes from CBs GK or CMs dropping deep.

 

[The Apprentice]

I hope CCV grows a bit

Winks looks like a bit of a find.

 

[tiger666]

I hope CCV grows a bit

Winks looks like a bit of a find.

He's over 6ft I think.

 

[beats1]

I think we've always conceded goals at U21 level. It is going to happen with the way we try to play, pressing high and playing out from the back and we have always usually had attack minded teams, fullbacks pushed right up etc.

As I've said a few times now though, our U21's seem to put in less coherent performances than a couple of years back especially tactically. Also I don't think the switch from 4-3-3 to more of a 4-2-3-1 has done much good.

TBF I don't think that has been a major change because at times our 433 was more of 4231, I remember Kane playing quite a few games at CM in a 433 but in reality it was more of a 4231.

The style of play is a lot less fluid though than before and it does appear to be more static

 

[mpickard2087]

TBF I don't think that has been a major change because at times our 433 was more of 4231, I remember Kane playing quite a few games at CM in a 433 but in reality it was more of a 4231.

The style of play is a lot less fluid though than before and it does appear to be more static

As you say its less fluid and I think the formation has a bit to do with it. The three in midfield often rotated and though it did sometimes end up as more 4-2-3-1 I don't think that was always the case and it was more fluid, even if Kane played alongside another striker like Obika. One game I even recall Kane ending up playing at the base of the three in midfield for example.

I also think that having a three in there helps the youngsters to control the centre of the park and aids our possession approach, also allows the central midfielders to contribute both in attack and defence so for me aids development.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I think we've always conceded goals at U21 level. It is going to happen with the way we try to play, pressing high and playing out from the back and we have always usually had attack minded teams, fullbacks pushed right up etc.

As I've said a few times now though, our U21's seem to put in less coherent performances than a couple of years back especially tactically. Also I don't think the switch from 4-3-3 to more of a 4-2-3-1 has done much good.

I was thinking exactly the same thing tonight. I've just finished watching the game and before it started the line-ups they gave out was us playing a 433 and I thought "great" Lesniak and Winks playing either side of Walkes maybe with Miller and Townsend either side of Coulthirst. Good idea. Instead we went with that 4231 with Walkes in the 10. Amos played out of position as a FB again, at least this time on his right side I guess, and Georgiou at LB.

That said I thought this was actually the best performance I've seen from our U21's for a while (they may have played as well or better, just not in the games I've seen lately) certainly in terms of dominating the ball and trying to control the game and being competitive, not easy on a tough pitch against a quality side, and I thought Winks was outstanding most of the night, Lesniak was tenacious, neat and tidy, most others worked hard but we were well short of creative quality and intelligence.

I barely noticed Walkes was playing, why the fuck he's being played as a 10 is baffling, and I've yet to be as impressed with Miller as others, he's a busy little fucker but the times I've seen him he's been more industry than ingenuity. Amos is a good Cm but he's not a full back and neither he or Georgiou offered anything in an attacking sense. Townsend did pretty much what Townsend does most of the time, flattered to deceive, he got a couple of decent looking crosses into the box, but didn't actually create anything concrete for anyone. Took his chance well at the end though. Sonupe went on one really great run and with three players waiting for a cut back decided to shoot from an impossible angle, it was really poor decision making and the difference between our forwards and theirs. Sonupe then tried to make the the same move round the outside about four more times and failed every time.

We gave away some daft goals, but were really unlucky to lose that match on the balance of play, they just looked that bit more dangerous than us whenever they got forward, part of that was inevitable as they were invariably catching us on the break and they have decent players and we had a CM at RB and a winger at LB.

I thought the first subs were straight out of the Pochettino wacky play book and seemed to leave us with Winks completely on his own in midfield ? Can anyone explain to me who was meant to playing in there with him ? I would have had Walkes off and Goddard on then Miller off for Sonupe maybe ?

I thought Veljkovic and CCV were stretched and exposed at times but apart from the odd occasion coped pretty well and Velkovic played a lovely ball for Coulthirst's second goal.

 

[spurs9]

 

[yankspurs]

That picture needs to be on put everyones fridge that has a young aspiring footballer in their household. Love that.

 

[spurs9]

That picture needs to be on put everyones fridge that has a young aspiring footballer in their household. Love that.

Especially since 3 of those players have been injured for 2-4 months each.

 

[newbie]

I actually thought despite being all over the place at times Georgiou showed some promise at LB today. Walkes is a RB and I never saw the fascination with playing him everywhere.

There is this new obsession in England youth football at the moment to have a big powerful AM who can attack like Toure but they totally forgot the bit where Toure was a very good DM and unlike these kids who are playing AM, had a good passing brain before he got to AM.

I like Lesniak at DM, he has showed some promise. My issue is less the selection bar walkes(and miller) and more the actual football being played and how we arent doing the basics properly

I also wouldn't have that Veljkovic and winks anywhere U21 football at the moment as its a pointless exercise and they will slowly lose interest. CCV also looks like he has nothing to learn from this level which isn't that surprising when you think about it.

CCV was starting at CB most of last season, U21 football should only be played for 1 or 2 seasons, depending on how person has progressed. The U21 league was stronger last year imo and I think he needs to learn in the real world rather than playing teams of a lower quality than a year ago.

Agreed

The following all need first team football / loans
CCV
Milos
Winks
Shaq (if Harrison was fit) for his own career
pos miler ( really rate miller).
pos Harrison

to be honest most of them really need loans to further there careers loans are trickey they can be the making of a player or it can go the other way we really need a couple of feed clubs with poor youth systems where they would be greatful for our players.