Spurs under 21, under 18 Leagues and other youth news

[Spursidol]

Interesting to hear Ramsey talking about Obika. He's going to be 23 in September. He's already had a lot of loans so I don't see any point in loaning him again. But i'm wondering if he'll be given a chance as a 3rd or even 4th striker for us. Like I said earlier he needs to be more clinical but given a chance who knows? Maybe he can get there. Seen that we might be in for that Croatian kid for €6m or so but maybe we're better off giving Obika an opportunity and see if he takes it.

Thoughts?

Its a toughie.

The purpose of sending players out on loan is, to restate the obvious, to give them the experience of playing at a certain level and to show that they might be able to play at a higher level.

Obika's stats at Charlton in the Championship this season were 2 starts and 8 off the bench scoring 3 goals (which given that he was often on the field for about 15 minutes per game off the bench amounts to about 3 goals in maybe 4 games - very good stats but on a small sample).

Championship loan spells in previouse seasons have given about 20 appearances off the bench (no starts) for about 3 goals - again the goals per minute on the pitch will be reasonable - probably a goal every 2 or 3 games - but its not a huge amount of playing time.

So in total he's probably played the equivalent of about 12 Champoinship games and scored 6 goals over his playing career, not that much experience but the stats are decent. (and not forgetting his 22 goals this season fir u21's and Spurs X1 sides - a very decent haul so he does know where the goal is)

Unless he's playing out on loan, and this season after scoring 20 goals for the u21's I really hoped he would, then he cannot get the experience. Unless we can get him a loan where he is starting regularly there is liittle point in loaning him out, and unless we do get in more strikers I would agree it would be more productive all round to make him the main centre forward for the League Cup (Capital One Cup) and see how he does - hopefully that will give him 4 or 5 games in Spurs colours and we can see how he does. At Spurs he would also get better coaching to improve his conversion of goalscoring opportunities.

Not sure whether AVB would give him time off the bench in PL or european matches which is the only way he's going to get enough playing time next season. Guess it could depend on who our strike force is next season - but certainly I think (as a general comment) AVB does need to be playing more of our u 21 squad in these matches, probably off the bench.

But if a Championship/lower PL loan came along where he was 'guaranteed' to get starts, it might not be bad. But I would certainly advocate terminating the loan early to bring him back to Spurs to play in the cups if he was not getting playing time on loan.

The bottom line is that I think Obika has proved that he's worth persevering with, particularly given the lack of English striking optiions generally - which gives a real value for the former England u 20 international. Les Ferdinand didn't play professional football until about 25, and Obika is not yet 23.

The alternative is to sell him go to a Championship/lower PL side with a significant sell on clause and/or buy back clause - but only if we have 4 decent strikers by the end of TW.

 

[newbie]

I think obika should have started against Leeds, Dempsey had some balls over the top he could not get due to a lack of pace I think coulhurst and obika would have offered more in that first half. Not knocking Dempsey I don't think his game is leading the line.

What worries me is all the teams we play 21s have players with first team game ex, our lads look just as good if not better yet they are not getting exp at spurs. Kids like laukau and eriksen, lennon, bale, Wiltshire fabergas all broke though a lot lot younger before they were 18/19. Kids develope differently Rooney and laukau where beasts at 16, Pritchard carrol, and Munns are tiny, also the premier league is harder to break in to as there are no week teams and its very physical.

This i hope is due to AVB first year (although to be fair Carroll, Livermore, caulker' Townsend have played) and also due to the fact we have not had comfortable leads often. Which contradicts what I have said I know but there all turning 22 Carroll a side.

Also maybe we have to much talent? We can field 3 very very strong 21s teams and still play under18s how many players do other clubs have coming through?

Chelsea have brought a lot of the worlds talent all ready playing first team in beligum ect for a lot of money yet we seem to be producing players or finding them very young abroad.

Spurs idol how do u rate some of our players against there equivalents from other clubs?
E.g sterling vs Mcveoy
Barkley vs Carroll
Coulhurst vs Liverpool striker

 

[newbie]

Also when we send a player on loan it's harder for the lads to get games as clubs have an incentive not to play them as there on loan. Why not play your own player unless the loanie is outstanding a cut above what u have.

 

[DEFchenkOE]

I think that with the new stadium plans etc we should just be trying a bit harder to get more of the youth team players into the first team as opposed to spending £5-£10m on bringing guys in from the outside. That way we might save a bit of money on squad players and still have money to push the boat out for a few big signings. It's a bit of a different strategy but while we seem to have a decent crop of youth at the moment I think we need to try and make sure we don't waste that

 

[deselina]

Spurs U19 squad are invited for this tournament. Games are this weekend. Borussia Dortmund were initially also invited, but have pulled out because of the CL final.

"Men United" have replaced Dortmund and are a team consisting of the best amateur youth players in Holland and are being coached by Ronald de Boer. Would be a dream come through for one of these guys if they get scouted during the weekend.

http://www.copa-amsterdam.nl/

Cope Amsterdam is known for inviting South American, African and Asian teams. All games are in the Olympic Stadium

Poule A: AFC Ajax, Borussia Mönchengladbach, Chelsea Ghana en Ajax Cape Town.

Poule B: Men United, Cruzeiro EC, Fluminense, Tottenham Hotspur.

Zaterdag 18 mei 2013
13.00 uur AFC Ajax Borussia Mönchengladbach
14.00 uur Tottenham Hotspur Cruzeiro EC
15.00 uur Men United Fluminense
16.00 uur Ajax Cape Town Chelsea Ghana


Zondag 19 mei 2013
11.00 uur Fluminense Tottenham Hotspur
12.00 uur Cruzeiro EC Men United
13.00 uur Ajax Cape Town AFC Ajax
14.00 uur Chelsea Ghana Borussia Mönchengladbach
15.00 uur Fluminense Cruzeiro EC
16.00 uur Men United Tottenham Hotspur
17.00 uur AFC Ajax Chelsea Ghana
18.00 uur Ajax Cape Town Borussia Mönchengladbach

 

[Romulus]

think someone said there is going to be a stream aswell

 

[Spursidol]

think someone said there is going to be a stream aswell

That's on the page before where I poted the link and a coopy of an article from the site where John McDermott is interviewed.

Its an English tranlation from the Dutch and I'm not sure whether the translation is accurate - it maybe just a live twitter update rather than a stream but won't know for sure until the first match !.

 

[Spursidol]

Spurs U19 squad are invited for this tournament. Games are this weekend. Borussia Dortmund were initially also invited, but have pulled out because of the CL final.

"Men United" have replaced Dortmund and are a team consisting of the best amateur youth players in Holland and are being coached by Ronald de Boer. Would be a dream come through for one of these guys if they get scouted during the weekend.

http://www.copa-amsterdam.nl/

Cope Amsterdam is known for inviting South American, African and Asian teams. All games are in the Olympic Stadium

http://www.copa-amsterdam.nl/tottenham-hotspur-returns-copa-amsterdam/

The organization of Copa Amsterdam proudly announces the participation of Tottenham Hotspur U18 at Copa Amsterdam 2013, which will be played from 18-20 May 2013 at the Olympic Stadium in the Netherlands. The tournament will have a (free) livestream available for viewers outside the Netherlands. [follow Twitter to get noticed!]
deselina,

Could you do us a favour and look at this link in Dutch (which I think you speak ?). Can you check whether the bit in blue above means a video stream or a twitter feed - the translation into English is ambiguous to me.

Many Thanks

 

[Spursidol]

I think obika should have started against Leeds, Dempsey had some balls over the top he could not get due to a lack of pace I think coulhurst and obika would have offered more in that first half. Not knocking Dempsey I don't think his game is leading the line.

What worries me is all the teams we play 21s have players with first team game ex, our lads look just as good if not better yet they are not getting exp at spurs. Kids like laukau and eriksen, lennon, bale, Wiltshire fabergas all broke though a lot lot younger before they were 18/19. Kids develope differently Rooney and laukau where beasts at 16, Pritchard carrol, and Munns are tiny, also the premier league is harder to break in to as there are no week teams and its very physical.

This i hope is due to AVB first year (although to be fair Carroll, Livermore, caulker' Townsend have played) and also due to the fact we have not had comfortable leads often. Which contradicts what I have said I know but there all turning 22 Carroll a side.

Also maybe we have to much talent? We can field 3 very very strong 21s teams and still play under18s how many players do other clubs have coming through?

Chelsea have brought a lot of the worlds talent all ready playing first team in beligum ect for a lot of money yet we seem to be producing players or finding them very young abroad.

Spurs idol how do u rate some of our players against there equivalents from other clubs?
E.g sterling vs Mcveoy
Barkley vs Carroll
Coulhurst vs Liverpool striker

Extremely difficult question.

Sterling is much more experienced - Liverpool do play their kids much more than Spurs, maybe (partly) because their first team squad is not as good as Spurs and/or maybe Rogers feels happier to do so. I have hopes that AVB does play the youth more in some matches next season.

McEvoy is certainly a talent - I would suggest that he may be a year behind Sterling in terms of development but potentially just as good, with great speed, a bundle of tricks and pretty good crossing from left and right side, but I think we need to watch McEvoy next season in u19's NextGen and u21's to check his progress before being sure. I am convinced he has the potential to become a good class PL footballer on what we have seen to date - but how good really is impossible to say.

Barkley v Carroill. Difficult one to call, both starting to play in PL so both at a similar level I would suggest. But they could be difficult to compare - Barkley being over 6 foot and Carroll being...well a midget and so play the game in very different ways. Could be a bit like comparing the likes of Dembele and Lampard ie they are both good but in different ways.

Coulthirst is good, very good potentially. But compared to which Liverpool striker ? Ngoo aged 20 and built like a bifg Emile Heskey/battleship, currently on loan to Hearts and Liverpool's next great hope as a striker ? Coulthirst every day of the week, smaller but great technique leads line, scores with both feet and head and brings other players into the team - good team player often has been captain of his age group, but Coulthirst is 18 so needs another year or two to get to play at Championship/PL level which is where Ngoo is now.

Love to hear other people's views on the comparisons too.

 

[newbie]

When we played Liverpool last season Next gen i was not that impressed with the giant up front or sterling more impressed by Pritchard and Munns they were footballers, sterling and the giant were just really fast and relied on balls over the top. Physically Liverpool were a lot bigger and faster. But we passed the ball a lot better then again I could be spurs biased.

 

[deselina]

http://www.copa-amsterdam.nl/tottenham-hotspur-returns-copa-amsterdam/

The organization of Copa Amsterdam proudly announces the participation of Tottenham Hotspur U18 at Copa Amsterdam 2013, which will be played from 18-20 May 2013 at the Olympic Stadium in the Netherlands. The tournament will have a (free) livestream available for viewers outside the Netherlands. [follow Twitter to get noticed!]
deselina,

Could you do us a favour and look at this link in Dutch (which I think you speak ?). Can you check whether the bit in blue above means a video stream or a twitter feed - the translation into English is ambiguous to me.

Many Thanks

Whoops sorry didn't noticed your post because I don't regularly check in on SC anymore. I'm pretty sure they have a livestream available, they had one in previous editions as well although I'm not sure why they specifically say "for viewers outside the Netherlands".

It's usually a link on the website itself and when you click on it there's also a chat option.

 

[Spursidol]

When we played Liverpool last season Next gen i was not that impressed with the giant up front or sterling more impressed by Pritchard and Munns they were footballers, sterling and the giant were just really fast and relied on balls over the top. Physically Liverpool were a lot bigger and faster. But we passed the ball a lot better then again I could be spurs biased.

The giant was Ngoo, agreed relied on his size and technique looked distinctly average.

Sterling I thought was the only Liverpol player that night who looked as if he played football, but you are right he relied too much on pace and tricks. Although he has played for Liverpool first team a few times, think he got found out a bit and was being touted round a few Championship clubs for a loan out (which didn't materialise) in February despite Liverpool first team being short of bodies. He's had more publicity but not sure he's really any more developed as a player than Pritchard - who did get a Championship loan, albeit injury meant he only played a few games.

 

[Spursidol]

Whoops sorry didn't noticed your post because I don't regularly check in on SC anymore. I'm pretty sure they have a livestream available, they had one in previous editions as well although I'm not sure why they specifically say "for viewers outside the Netherlands".

It's usually a link on the website itself and when you click on it there's also a chat option.

Cheers thank for that.

 

[rabbikeane]

Coulthirst is good, very good potentially. But compared to which Liverpool striker ? Ngoo aged 20 and built like a bifg Emile Heskey/battleship, currently on loan to Hearts and Liverpool's next great hope as a striker ? Coulthirst every day of the week, smaller but great technique leads line, scores with both feet and head and brings other players into the team - good team player often has been captain of his age group, but Coulthirst is 18 so needs another year or two to get to play at Championship/PL level which is where Ngoo is now.

Liverpool has a striker of same age as Coulthirst in Adam Morgan, who also is more comparable in style than Ngoo.
Morgan played 3 times for Liverpool in the Europa League this season and is first choice of his age group for England.
Coulthirst never called up, not that the England coaches know what they're doing.

 

[IGSpur]

How did we compare age wise against Everton?

Archer 20 Mucha 30
Fryers 20 Garbutt 19
Hall 21 Browning 18
Stewart 19 Duffy 21
Fredericks 22 Stones 18

Veljkovic 17 Lundstram 19
Carroll 20 Barkley 19
Bentaleb 18 Grant 18

Pritchard 20 Long 19
Obika 22 Kennedy 18
Ceballos 20 McAleny 20

McEvoy 18 Hope 19
Barthram 19 Green 17 (Didnt come on)

Our GK obv younger, defence a bit older. Mid ave prob the same. Their attack is younger. I cant remember their subs apart from Hope. I added George Green as he was the youngest player of the 2 squads born Jan 96 but he never came on. Veljkovic is Sept 95 and was the 2nd youngest player in the 2 squads. and he played the full 90 mins and never looks out of place. Really rate him

 

[IGSpur]

Highlights from yesterday. Great support

Got to the match just as Pritchard finished. So never saw that ball by TC. Top drawer

 

[Super Tottenham]

There is a thread on Man U's forum about Tom Carroll: http://www.redcafe.net/f7/carroll-tom-carroll-371110/

Even they can see the potential where Stuart Pearce can't.

 

[EnfieldYiddo]

There is a thread on Man U's forum about Tom Carroll: http://www.redcafe.net/f7/carroll-tom-carroll-371110/

Even they can see the potential where Stuart Pearce can't.

Lovely to see Carroll getting recognition outside of our fan base... But lol at one guy labelling Sandro a deep-lying playmaker haha.

 

[SlickMongoose]

Wasn't Pearce's midfield for the last tournament Rodwell, Mancienne and Phil Jones? I'm not sure he really looks at footballing ability.

 

[newbie]

Pritchard and Barkley are 6 months apart in age but Barkley is 17 cm taller and has played first team football. If Pritchard and Carroll were over 6ft 2 units I am sure they would have more game time so I think we have remember we are solely focusing on technical ability.