Match Threads Spurs vs Aston Villa - Day 13

[WiganSpur]

I have no problem with the team selection. It was brave and I liked it. I have a problem with the lack of protection our makeshift defence was given. I’m all in for Ange and we play excellent football but when you’re missing two world-class level centre backs and throw in two full backs, you can’t expect them to do the same job. He needed to adapt and he didn’t.

If you play Skipp and Hojbjerg today you end up with a Wolves like performance imo. And you might protect the defence better but ultimately create about a quarter of what we did today. Given we're an attacking side it was right for us to go for it. We should have won it ultimately and Villa still had to be fairly clinical to win it.

 

[Jay.]

City, West Ham and Newcastle coming up. What happens next?

 

[thePessimist]

City, West Ham and Newcastle coming up. What happens next?

west ham we simply must win. 4 points is not great but ok imo

 

[riggi]

City, West Ham and Newcastle coming up. What happens next?

We don’t win again this year.

 

[we_all_loved_freund]

I Actually enjoyed the majority of today’s performance. Like night and day from the performance at Wolves. We created tons of chances and should have been 3-4 up.

The team selection was correct, imo, we just weren’t able to finish a few more of the good chances we created.

Yes, there were a couple of players that we know shouldn’t be around the team (Davies, PEH, Skipp) but I also thought a couple of the players that came in did really well (Gio and Gill).

Losing Roddy really hurt us, his creativity would have helped massively in the second half.

The only criticism I would have is taking off Gio. Having said that, so many of that team have hardly started a game for us this season, let alone completed 90mins, we were always going to tire.

I’m not in any way annoyed by the defeat, as I was the one against Wolves.

 

[Thenewcat]

It is ok to criticise him when he gets things wrong. He's made mistakes and they've cost us and it's that simple for me.

This doesn't mean I don't think he's the right man for the job, or that I don't believe he will get us to where we want to be because I do.

I don’t think he’s been perfect either (i didn’t like the subs today) but I don’t really have a problem with him sticking to his system. The defence we are playing would be vulnerable however we played, which is down to leaving the squad short at CB

 

[rossdapep]

If anyone's pointing fingers at Ange for today's game, they might be missing the bigger picture. I mean, come on, we squandered so many golden opportunities, and let's not even talk about the CB situation – just having one fit would've made a huge difference. Picture this: a day where we actually convert those chances or have a solid backline; we'd be celebrating a 2 or 3 goal win. It's all part of the process, so let's keep the faith and trust the journey.

Its exactly this.

Klopp was often criticised for being too open and going all in the press and people said he needs to drop the players such as Mignolet, Lovren etc for youngsters as they were an accident waiting to happen or be more pragmatic.

He did not compromise despite some shocking results and throwing away 3 leads etc.

Instead he just added players that were suitable and slowly got the likes of Moreno, Mignolet etc out.

Instead of trying to get his midfield to manage energy better, he doubled down and had 6 players who could play high octane football and rotate.

His strikeforce wasnt up to it so he gradually added Mane and Salah.

The final piece was the players that would allow his midfield and attack to go 100% every game by adding stability in Van Dijk and Allison.

We are further ahead as we have added the stability first. Vicario, Van de Ven and Romero won us a lot of points and will continue to do so.

But 2 of those we are without and that causes issues at both ends.

You have to take your chances even when 1-0 up as the defence can't be trusted. Which adds more pressure.

Klopp's Liverpool stopped playing under pressure when the stability was there week in week out.

1-0 wins could be achieved.

There is no chance we keep clean sheets with this make shift back 4.

Klopps Liverpool couldn't do it either in his first 2 seasons.

So Ange is justified in not sacrificing his beliefs even just a smidgen

 

[kitchen]

Obviously the injuries are playing a significant part, but we aren’t helping ourselves by failing to adjust to the situation we’re in.

Mourinho and Conte were (rightly) slaughtered for playing one way and not having a Plan B but Ange does the same thing, just at the complete opposite end of the spectrum.

We played the game today like we were down to ten men from minute zero. We’re already playing two full backs out of position, don’t then leave outrageous amounts of space down the left and right wing for the opposition to exploit. The counter attack was on every single time we lost the ball.

When it works, we look brilliant, but it won’t ever stop being incredibly naive and dangerous.

This post is not intended to slaughter Ange. Im very excited or our future under him (if he is rightly backed), but he needs to understand he doesn’t have comfortably the best squads in the league anymore. Davies and Emerson needed help today and he left them dangerously exposed.

Do you think we deserved to lose today on the balance of play?
Do you think Villa played better than us?
Did we create more chances than the opposition?
On another day would we have won easily?

Not sure you can blame the manager for that much today. He's not the one that shoots, or creates the chances.... Let's face it, on the balance of play, which is really all Ange can control, we were the better team, created more chances and would have won easily if our players had their shooting or decision making boots on today. That was with 5 vital first teamers missing. Literally most of the spine of our team at its best.

Kulu in particular missed chances that on other days he slots away easily. Even Udogie's early miss was a great chance that he should have scored. Plus Gil should have had a pen for being elbowed in the face.

I'd accept what you're saying if villa were really profligate (like us) and created loads of chances, but they weren't really. They outscored their xG, we were nearly 1 and a half goals below ours. Yes, they created chances up against our decimated defence, but you expect that. We created more however and were the better team overall. In football sometimes the best team loses.

Also, if Bentancur who was selected by Ange to start, stays on the pitch we win easily today IMO. He was controlling the game, keeping the ball well, makes great decisions on when to pass and when to drive and the whole team was more fluid with him on the pitch. We looked more secure defensively and more potent offensively with him... Is his injury on Ange too?

You can't expect the manager to provide equal cover for missing players where the fall off in quality is evident. He's a good manager - not a magician.

 

[Kirito]

Just watched the recording. Was just one of those games where we take our chances in the first half, its over.

Also losing Bentancur disrupted things.

Definitely didn’t deserve to lose.

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

I'm not sure it was our defence that was the problem today. More like our front line simply isn't taking its chances well enough. We create the wrong kind of chances for Son, but can't afford to play him out wide, so he has to be central. I guess we'd be OK if he could stay onside...

 

[rossdapep]

Say it louder for those at the back.

WE ARE PLAYING WITHOUT CENTRE BACKS!!

 

[14/04/91]

I have no problem with the team selection. It was brave and I liked it. I have a problem with the lack of protection our makeshift defence was given. I’m all in for Ange and we play excellent football but when you’re missing two world-class level centre backs and throw in two full backs, you can’t expect them to do the same job. He needed to adapt and he didn’t.

The protection was fine in the first half. It was called keeping possession and pressing to force villa into areas they didn’t want to be. We looked totally comfortable.
The issue was the second half; they brought Tielemans on and took control whilst we lost Bentancur and control.
Hojbjerg did his usual and held hands with the centre halves but that offered less protection than we had first half by playing in their half.
Bentancur was just one absence too many; without him we couldn’t play how Ange wants us to. All in all today was a lot more positive than I was expecting and I’m still certain we’re onto something golden in the long term.

 

[rossdapep]

I'm not sure it was our defence that was the problem today. More like our front line simply isn't taking its chances well enough. We create the wrong kind of chances for Son, but can't afford to play him out wide, so he has to be central. I guess we'd be OK if he could stay onside...

It is a problem.

They did ok in build up and 1v1s.

But Villa were targetting high crosses as neither of Davies or Emerson are good in the air.

Even a Craig Dawson would stop that.

Its not Emerson or Davies' fault, they just arent that type of player

 

[Hazelton]

Disappointed in Son today.

Poor decision making, looked leggy and did nothing to really inspire.

There were a couple of freekicks I felt he should have been stepping up to, as a leader and a top player.

 

[thehipster]

I’d love to know what Ange thought bringing Skipp on would do?

I’ve been thinking about it since it happened and I just can’t see any answer where bringing Skipp on makes us more likely to get back into that game. If it’s just fresh legs, then any sub does that. He isn’t an attacker, and he doesn’t really do a Kay thing in midfield that allows someone else to do more in terms of key passes or attacking play. Especially when it’s followed by subbing Lo Celso as well who was the only one who looked able to create something.

Again this isn’t a dig at Skipp himself, but I just have no understanding how you can look at that bench and think Skipp can help you get back in the game.

Would have had Lo Celso on till the end, and would have had Veliz on earlier personally.

Love Ange, but some of his subs baffle me. Fell a bit like we talk about being brave…. But only to a point.

But you’re not a top manager are you?
You‘re not a strength and conditioning expert are you?
You have no daily insight into the preparations for this season, let alone this game….have you?

I’m not trying to belittle you. Rather offer up an alternative perspective.
We’re losing players left, right and centre to injuries.
90% of all injuries come from being overplayed and creating weaknesses around our bodies, that then become a tackle or over-stretch away from a longer-term issue.
Ange will have the stats. He’ll know how each player is with their individual fitness and current capacity.
And Ange also knows he’s here for a number of years.

He’s wise and not myopic. He sees the wider picture and long game.
You’re probably on your sofa or with your mates, wanting instant satisfaction in this moment.
That’s not what long term success is built upon.

Whether or not Gill could have continued, and then could have played the next 4-5 consecutive games without injury is something we’ll never know. But I trust Ange.
I reckon he’s got our players welfare and long term fitness at heart. I reckon he wants sustained success.
What I don’t reckon is that he’s going to make short term decisions to appease a few frustrated fans.

Strap yourself in for a long term rollercoaster ride. Don’t get fixated on the first peak and then dip.
Have faith. Have trust.
If it all pans out as I think it might, in 2 seasons time we’ll be hailing all previous decisions and any pockets of pain.
It’s a journey, embrace it all. Rough and smooth.

 

[Jay.]

Anyone saying that defeat was not annoying today is wrong. Taken the lead again, missed countless chances again, conceded deep into first half stoppage time, disallowed goals for offside.

You can lament your luck all you like but none of that is bad luck.

Its not acceptable and anyone who thinks it is has the same mentality that has been wrong with this club for years.

Woe is me does not win you trophies.

 

[Mr Pink]

Bentacur stayed on we'd of won that.

 

[coys761]

Let's take a step back and appreciate the journey Ange is navigating with our beloved club. Every team faces setbacks, and today was one of those days. But here's the deal – trusting Ange means believing in the process, the ups, and the downs.

Ange is shaping something special, and it takes time. Trust him, trust the journey, and let's stand united. We're in this for the long haul. So, enough with the negativity, embrace the process, and let's see where Ange takes us.

COYS

 

[14/04/91]

The issue for me isn't that he won't change his way of playing it's that he keeps playing players that can't play this way. If we are going to be brave then let's be brave, at the moment it think it's half arsed bravery.

But he dropped Dier & Hojbjerg. IMO the 2 players least suited to his style but also 2 senior players
I think he was brave to do this. And correct.
Bentancur doesn’t get hacked, we win the game. I honestly believe that. It was one absence too many.

 

[DenverSpur]

Another one....I'm sick of people keep telling me it's either this or Conte football! It fucking isn't. There are a whole number of levels in between FFS.

I'm not saying don't play this way, or that we need to be more pragmatic. I'm saying if you keep asking the same players who CAN'T play this way to do so, expect the same result. I certainly did.

If we’d taken our chances in the first half this discussion would be academic.