Match Threads Spurs vs Birmingham City - Match Thread - Friendly

[yankspurs]

While it was the 2nd match in as many days, i think it highlighted how badly we need a creative midfielder regardless of whether Ndombele stays or goes. That should be our next priority after a backup striker.

I’d look to sell Aurier and Sissoko. Perhaps Lamela and/or Lucas as well. I dont think we should want any part of activating Gedson’s permanent transfer as it stands but he has the season to prove me wrong.

White & Cirkin look really good. Think they will both get plenty of time this season. Clarke needs a loan where he will actually play.

 

[slartibartfast]

He must be just lucky.

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
He is pants. Thats not even up for debate.

 

[Erm33]

clarke 10m+, sessegnon 25m rising to 30m

people also forget we included onomah on top of that as well so it depends what his value was assigned as at the time, now he's a key player for them and is worth considerably more than when he left. it's a sizeable investment so it's understandable that expectations are high.

Rising to 30m for what conditions to be met?

 

[Neon_Knight_]

Yeah it's so bad only son got more assists than him last season.

5 assists is perfectly decent and, as I've said before on here, he's easily good enough to keep as back-up for Doherty. However, I do think his crossing is quite poor. According to opta stats, Aurier hit a huge number of crosses but had very poor cross completion - only 14%. I can't find the article now, but SSN comparison of Aurier and Doherty shows Aurier isn't the most efficient crosser of the ball. Over 3x as many crosses, but only 1.6x more assists. It would be interesting to see how our other players compare from the same flank (Bergwijn, Moura, Sissoko).

 

[Mark_147]

5 assists is perfectly decent and, as I've said before on here, he's easily good enough to keep as back-up for Doherty. However, I do think his crossing is quite poor. According to opta stats, Aurier hit a huge number of crosses but had very poor cross completion - only 14%. I can't find the article now, but SSN comparison of Aurier and Doherty shows Aurier isn't the most efficient crosser of the ball. Over 3x as many crosses, but only 1.6x more assists. It would be interesting to see how our other players compare from the same flank (Bergwijn, Moura, Sissoko).

View attachment 72485

I certainly agree he should be kept as a back up to Doherty as we are lacking in the assist department.

 

[Blake Griffin]

Rising to 30m for what conditions to be met?

i don't know, i didn't make the deal.

right now it doesn't look like he'll be meeting any conditions but 25m+ onomah is still a considerable amount so it's no surprise people hold him to a higher standard than an academy kid that cost us nothing.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

clarke 10m+, sessegnon 25m rising to 30m

people also forget we included onomah on top of that as well so it depends what his value was assigned as at the time, now he's a key player for them and is worth considerably more than when he left. it's a sizeable investment so it's understandable that expectations are high.

Onomah was probably worth only circa £5m at the time, due to his lack of first team experience - but that still adds 20% on to the price most people quote for Sessegnon. Had we given Onomah more playing time, it could easily have been double that - simply because his ability (even if underwhelming) would have been more evidenced.
Now, even with clubs being more cautious with spending (COVID-19), he'd probably be worth £12-15m. I'm basing that on what we reportedly got for KWP, the fact he's HG and his importance to Fulham.

 

[John48]

Not kneejerk because of the goal, but I'll be surprised if by the end of the season Stevie isn't an automatic starter. With him and Son and possibly Dele interchanging he could be as important as Son and Kane this season.

I'd start him over Lucas every day of the week. Interesting to see where Jose goes when Lo Celso is available, but I'd be looking at Son, Kane, Dele & Lo Celso as a front 4 & if he could work SB as well I think we'd be a pretty good attacking force, then it's about a solid base in behind.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

I certainly agree he should be kept as a back up to Doherty as we are lacking in the assist department.

He's not defensively as bad as some people make out either. I can't help thinking we made a mistake in selling Trippier though.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Solid performance from Cirkin - Only thing I'd say he needs to work on is passing to players who are already under pressure - does it a lot and it's a bit of a risk.

I agree, I think it shows that at youth level he’s used to playing with our standard youth product in that Winks/ White/ Skipp/ Carroll mould, very comfortable receiving the ball in tight spaces and of course there’s less pressure on the ball at that level.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

I'd start him over Lucas every day of the week. Interesting to see where Jose goes when Lo Celso is available, but I'd be looking at Son, Kane, Dele & Lo Celso as a front 4 & if he could work SB as well I think we'd be a pretty good attacking force, then it's about a solid base in behind.

There won't be a first choice eleven this season. It's not a useful expenditure of mental energy cooking up line-ups and then disputing them.

Unless we get knocked out of the EL in the qualifiers, we simply have too many matches crammed in fewer than usual weeks for there to be a settled starting eleven. All five or six of our attacking players will be used frequently in different combinations, not because Mourinho prefers it that way - he doesn't, historically - but because the onslaught of competitive fixtures and the inevitable injuries will make it so.

People will continue to argue who is "first choice" for each nominal position, based on subtleties of who played against which opponent in which competition, but it will be nonsense. Not only will we need to apply unprecedented rotation, but most of the "positions" aren't rigid anyway, especially among the attacking 4-5.

It's a false debate, because it's arguing about something that doesn't apply.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

I'd start him over Lucas every day of the week. Interesting to see where Jose goes when Lo Celso is available, but I'd be looking at Son, Kane, Dele & Lo Celso as a front 4 & if he could work SB as well I think we'd be a pretty good attacking force, then it's about a solid base in behind.

For me, there's not much between Bergwijn and Moura. Both have a great attitude, create chances, contribute goals and work hard off the ball. Moura has more pace and I'd argue he's better out of possession. Bergwijn is probably the better crosser and, at 6 years younger, hopefully has a much higher ceiling.
I think it's great that we have two strong options for the same position. In the past someone of their quality would have been an automatic starter with a significantly weaker option on the bench. The starter would be under less pressure to perform and would be overused when fatigued / carrying a knock. The back-up would be of limited use coming off the bench.

I can't see Mourinho selecting your proposed front four on a regular basis. I would expect Lo Celso to play as a no.8 when Dele starts as a no.10 and the other options are fit / well-rested. At the start of the season, I don't expect us to see a settled front four or CM pairing, so everyone will have plenty of opportunities to stake a claim to be starting XI once the schedule calms down.
Winks, Sissoko and Dele were all guaranteed starters at times in the past. Now they are options - not due to lack of form or ability, but due to us having more depth and balance within the squad.

 

[Marty]

There won't be a first choice eleven this season. It's not a useful expenditure of mental energy cooking up line-ups and then disputing them.

Unless we get knocked out of the EL in the qualifiers, we simply have too many matches crammed in fewer than usual weeks for there to be a settled starting eleven. All five or six of our attacking players will be used frequently in different combinations, not because Mourinho prefers it that way - he doesn't, historically - but because the onslaught of competitive fixtures and the inevitable injuries will make it so.

People will continue to argue who is "first choice" for each nominal position, based on subtleties of who played against which opponent in which competition, but it will be nonsense. Not only will we need to apply unprecedented rotation, but most of the "positions" aren't rigid anyway, especially among the attacking 4-5.

It's a false debate, because it's arguing about something that doesn't apply.

I think we can assume the "first team" is the one that will play the games against the other top six sides and the most important/hard cup games. That's only 10 league games + at most the same number of cup games, so 20 out of (hopefully) 50+ matches over the course of the season. And if some of those important games come back to back to back we will of course be forced to rotate in those two.

That's a long-winded way of basically saying I agree but with a small amendment.

 

[Legacy]

True which makes me think he will play a low block which takes that weakness out of our game personally think Sanchez is needed for his pace

Did you...just reply to yourself?

 

[stov]

Then why say the opposite?

I didn't. Where did I say that was the lineup for every game? Your pedantry is without limits.

 

[bat-chain]

I was really impressed with Carter Vickers, was it just me?

 

[Jospur]

Would anyone care to give the players marks out of ten for today’s game?

 

[Sweech]

We won't have a "starting 11 for the season". There will be different line-ups for every match.

That's never been Mourinho's MO though. He typically favours a go-to 11 with little rotation outside of lesser cup games.

 

[rabbikeane]

Would anyone care to give the players marks out of ten for today’s game?

Hart - nothing to do, vocal
Aurier - 6
CCV - 7
Dier - 8
Cirkin - 6
White - 6
Sissoko - 5
Clarke - 5
Gedson - 4
Sessegnon - 5
Lucas - 6

Højbjerg, Bergwijn, Dele and Son all raised the level when they came on

 

[Jospur]

Hart - nothing to do, vocal
Aurier - 6
CCV - 7
Dier - 8
Cirkin - 6
White - 6
Sissoko - 5
Clarke - 5
Gedson - 4
Sessegnon - 5
Lucas - 6

Højbjerg, Bergwijn, Dele and Son all raised the level when they came on

Gedson 4? Surely he can’t have been that poor after his earlier displays this pre-season?