Spurs want Rodgers to replace Arry - Sun article

[Spurs_Bear]

We did, that's right. But the second was from a corner Bear, and its not like we hadn't created plenty prior to that.

You said yourself we should of won by more :wink:

Indeed. Like a lot of games we should have been out of sight at half time.

 

[Mr Pink]

This is my fear and why I question Rodgers, I dont think they defend well or are tactically well equipped when they do lose the ball. They rely on an ability to keep the ball to the neglect of other aspects of the game.

The biggest indicator of all is where they are in the League though, and it doesn't lie at this stage of the season. So their philosophy is clearly working in relation to their resources/size of Club etc.

 

[stemark44]

I feel the criticism of Rogers not having a plan B a bit harsh. He has bought and developed players to play a certain way and fit certain specifications. Yes he would love to have striker like Adebayor who is tall, fast and skillfill, but he had £3m, not enough for a month of Ade's wages, so he had to buy someone who was a good finisher, but not pacey or strong in Graham. What is the use of going long when you have put together a team without the characteristics to make it work.

In the end we won the match because of the quality of our front 3 in Bale, Ade and VDV compared to theirs in Sinclair, Graham and Routledge.

I think Danny Graham is a very under rated player,he may not have the physical attributes of someone like Adebayor or the technique of Van Persie but his intelligence and positional sense are as good as any striker I have watched this season.
He is almost always in the exact place that a striker should be when his team is on the attack.
I am not sure if he has always had that ability because I haven't seen him play in previous seasons or if its simply down to the coaching methods at Swansea.
Either way its impressive.

 

[danielneeds]

That's just too simplistic mate, we had plans for their front men, they had none for ours, that's why we won.

I don't think so. I think the extra quality told in the end. Although Redknapp did excel himself in his preparation.

 

[danielneeds]

I think Danny Graham is a very under rated player,he may not have the physical attributes of someone like Adebayor or the technique of Van Persie but his intelligence and positional sense are as good as any striker I have watched this season.
He is almost always in the exact place that a striker should be when his team is on the attack.
I am not sure if he has always had that ability because I haven't seen him play in previous seasons or if its simply down to the coaching methods at Swansea.
Either way its impressive.

I think he is a good little player too. But Kaboul and Gallas bullied him physically and were able to squeeze him because they knew he didn't have the legs to stretch them.

 

[BillyWhizz]

I quite like Lambert too, he does think, but he IMO, like O'Neill and Moyes is too much the reverse of what you don't like about Rodgers. It's too re-active, his strategy is too focused on stopping and negating the opposition and not enough about imposing your own methodology on them.

Some would say that is a sensible approach with the players he has. And we only know he does this with a small team like Norwich, Moyes and O'Neil have done this with Everton/Celtic/Villa etc.

I think it's fair to say that both Rodgers and Lambert have massive potential but neither have even had a full season in the premiership yet. Lets see how they both get on over the next few seasons, and in the meantime hire Capello to instil a winning mentality and help consolidate our position in the top 3/4 for the forseable future.

 

[stemark44]

We brought Lennon on and went 4411 before Adebayor scored the second, we then went back to 433/4231 when we scored the 3rd and Livermore came on.

As for the article, I read it and it's good, and I agree with it. But then why didn't he prepare his team to play against us? Why did he leave Bale one on one with Rangel? Why did he have nobody covering Modric? Why did he not react to Routledge getting no change from Assou-Ekotto apart from stick a different guy on there to see if he had any more luck?

Yeah that's precisely what we did but as I pointed out earlier,we scored 2 headers inside their 6 yard box yesterday that we NEVER EVER EVER do.

I would suggest that had Caulkner( who is a big boy!)played he would have been marking Adebayor and we might not have had the same result.

 

[mpickard2087]

The biggest indicator of all is where they are in the League though, and it doesn't lie at this stage of the season. So their philosophy is clearly working in relation to their resources/size of Club etc.

Its a tight table from 8th-15th right now, so lets see where they finish in May. what I would say is that at least they have a clear structure in place which helps no end, rather than some other teams (eg. Wolves), I honestly couldnt tell you what approach they are trying to play.

I do think it is admirable they way he approaches the game, and they dont have the biggest budget so kudos to him for what he has done so far, but I dont think he is there yet. I wouldnt say Swansea play a particularly expansive game and its refelcted in the table, they control the middle with possession and therefore dont concede but dont have many in the goals scored column either. If managing us this happened then I could see a lot of our fans going into meltdown if we had loads of possession but no penetration on a regular basis, saying its not very effective. Off the ball I wasnt impressed with them, it looked like they hadnt done any work on it and were reliant on the ability to keep the ball, which only gets you so far, and were too open in defence.

I dont think he is ready yet, you disagree. It will be interesting to see how things turn out though.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Yeah that's precisely what we did but as I pointed out earlier,we scored 2 headers inside their 6 yard box yesterday that we NEVER EVER EVER do.

I would suggest that had Caulkner( who is a big boy!)played he would have been marking Adebayor and we might not have had the same result.

Which begs the question again, if Rodgers prepares so well, he would have known that Caulker wasn't able to play right from the off, so his preparation for this game went deeper than just not having a plan for Bale/Modric/VdV etc.

 

[Kingstheman]

I don't think so. I think the extra quality told in the end. Although Redknapp did excel himself in his preparation.

I agree.

I thought the real difference was that the qualities of our individual players told.

I felt their team was much greater than the sum of its parts, but that our parts were just better.

If you get what I mean.

 

[stemark44]

Its a tight table from 8th-15th right now, so lets see where they finish in May. what I would say is that at least they have a clear structure in place which helps no end, rather than some other teams (eg. Wolves), I honestly couldnt tell you what approach they are trying to play.

I do think it is admirable they way he approaches the game, and they dont have the biggest budget so kudos to him for what he has done so far, but I dont think he is there yet. I wouldnt say Swansea play a particularly expansive game and its refelcted in the table, they control the middle with possession and therefore dont concede but dont have many in the goals scored column either. If managing us this happened then I could see a lot of our fans going into meltdown if we had loads of possession but no penetration on a regular basis, saying its not very effective. Off the ball I wasnt impressed with them, it looked like they hadnt done any work on it and were reliant on the ability to keep the ball, which only gets you so far, and were too open in defence.

I dont think he is ready yet, you disagree. It will be interesting to see how things turn out though.

The difference between Swansea and Barcelona is simply the fact that they don't have players who are individually brilliant.This adds another extra dimension to their play,not only can they pass brilliantly but they have world class vision and the ability to beat players easily.

Barcelona have world class players in Messi,Xavi and Iniesta etc.
For me Arsenal are not as good as they once were because they don't have enough world class players anymore who can add that extra dimension.

Spurs also have a few world class players and we could use that system too.

 

[stemark44]

Which begs the question again, if Rodgers prepares so well, he would have known that Caulker wasn't able to play right from the off, so his preparation for this game went deeper than just not having a plan for Bale/Modric/VdV etc.

He obviously doesn't have the strength in depth or the personnel within his squad.

 

[sloth]

We brought Lennon on and went 4411 before Adebayor scored the second, we then went back to 433/4231 when we scored the 3rd and Livermore came on.

As for the article, I read it and it's good, and I agree with it. But then why didn't he prepare his team to play against us? Why did he leave Bale one on one with Rangel? Why did he have nobody covering Modric? Why did he not react to Routledge getting no change from Assou-Ekotto apart from stick a different guy on there to see if he had any more luck?

No we didn't. From Harry's own lips:

""Aaron Lennon, a second-half substitute, will also be an important figure in the run-in. "It was good to have him back," Redknapp said. "I just got a text from somebody saying it was great we went 4-4-2. I don't remember doing that. It was one of my scouts, which really scares me. We never changed the system. Lennon gave us a bit more width. They've all got key roles to play.""

 

[Spurs_Bear]

No we didn't. From Harry's own lips:

""Aaron Lennon, a second-half substitute, will also be an important figure in the run-in. "It was good to have him back," Redknapp said. "I just got a text from somebody saying it was great we went 4-4-2. I don't remember doing that. It was one of my scouts, which really scares me. We never changed the system. Lennon gave us a bit more width. They've all got key roles to play.""

Oh....so you're choosing to believe Harry now are you sloth? :lol:

When Lennon came on he ran straight to the right side of the unit, but we were defending on the left so he was fairly central until the ball broke, then he basically stood on the touchline for 5 minutes until he touched the ball. VdV was called over by Harry and then moved central to play with Adebayor, call it what you want but swapping Lennon for VdV on the right changes the system fundamentally. You know it does.

 

[Kingstheman]

No we didn't. From Harry's own lips:

""Aaron Lennon, a second-half substitute, will also be an important figure in the run-in. "It was good to have him back," Redknapp said. "I just got a text from somebody saying it was great we went 4-4-2. I don't remember doing that. It was one of my scouts, which really scares me. We never changed the system. Lennon gave us a bit more width. They've all got key roles to play.""

That much was true. Stretched Swansea right out.

 

[StartingPrice]

Maybe SP, although that's not what I using as a yardstick.

It is not always the best yardstick to use...but, there again, neither is taking one individual game as being indicative. As others have pointed out, their best defender (who is actually our best defender :grin was missing yesterday, and that seriosly hampered their usual defensive potential.

Spurs Bear -

You're right in the sense that we could of won by a greater margin, and should of actually even if it would of looked harsh on Swansea. But what won us that game was using the right set up, applying the right work rate and the greater individual ability we had - was allowed to shine given the former two points.

Essentially we were using Swansea's ethos, strategy and game plan to great affect, and we came out on top because we had the better players....but doing similar things collectively to that of Swansea. That's key because if we hadn't, they would of won that game yesterday, I'm quite sure of that.

Which is how I see it, ultimately.

But we actually took it to another level Mr Pink, which is what I'm trying to say. Let's not kid ourselves that Swansea are the first advocates of pass and move and pressing. We played a better game than them yesterday because we encorporated the same approach that they did, but we used tactics as well. Which is my other point about Rodgers. He didn't. How he allowed Bale to go one on one with Rangel I'll never know. I admire his bloddy-mindedness for sticking to his guns, but I want more than that from someone who is going to take over what is essentially a Champions League team.

Sticking my neck out, I don't want Rodgers or Lambert. Yet.

But that is such a circular argument - we took it to another level because we have better players.

That's just too simplistic mate, we had plans for their front men, they had none for ours, that's why we won.

Or, alternatively, they had plans for our front men, but our front men were just too good.

Which begs the question again, if Rodgers prepares so well, he would have known that Caulker wasn't able to play right from the off, so his preparation for this game went deeper than just not having a plan for Bale/Modric/VdV etc.

Again, you are assuming he didn't have a plan or that it was flawed. I'm not one to readily quote Lawro, but as he said on MOTD 2, Bale can simply be unplayable. So, no matter what Rodgers planned to stop him, what personnel he had available or how they performed individually, it was always going to be the case that we had the potential to win, even if they matched us in every other way, because we have better players.

Knowing that Caulker isn't available, selecting an alternative and preparing that alternative specifically to combat any aerial threat from Adebayor (not that we've seenmuch this season), still carries the possiblity that that replacement wouldn't be good enough to keep him quiet for 90 minutes.

We simply had better players.

Also, no-one is saying that Rodgers is infallible, and no-one is saying Lambert is a dead loss. I wouldn't be devastated if we hired Lambert (I mean, it's not like he's Fat Sam, or summit), but, taken as a whole, Rodgers looks the more exciting option.

 

[sloth]

This is my fear and why I question Rodgers, I dont think they defend well or are tactically well equipped when they do lose the ball. They rely on an ability to keep the ball to the neglect of other aspects of the game.

Bloody hell, we're moving into fantasy land now. Their pressing game is one of their great strengths, they're brilliant off the ball, the problem for the yesterday was they didn't have as much of the ball as they usually do, and pressing for 50% of the game is a whole different proposition to pressing for 40% as they usually have to (or 30% like Barcelona do).

The other thing to say is it's fucking Swansea, some of the comments on here and you'd think we were discussing the merits of the manager of a club like Chelsea, or Liverpool, who've just come to the Lane, bossed possession, but got beaten 3-1. This is the minnows Swansea, whose team is made up largely of Championship and League One players, that's the context of what he's achieving. He has managed Swansea to victories over Liverpool, Man City, an Chelsea this season, in contrast, of those three sides we only managed victory over one of them - and his victories weren't backs-to-the-wall, withstand the siege and nick one in the 90th type victories, they were bona fide, out play, out pass, out defend, out score them type victories.

No one's saying Rodgers is the finished article, but credit where it's due please!

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Bloody hell, we're moving into fantasy land now. Their pressing game is one of their great strengths, they're brilliant off the ball, the problem for the yesterday was they didn't have as much of the ball as they usually do, and pressing for 50% of the game is a whole different proposition to pressing for 40% as they usually have to (or 30% like Barcelona do).

The other thing to say is it's fucking Swansea, some of the comments on here and you'd think we were discussing the merits of the manager of a club like Chelsea, or Liverpool, who've just come to the Lane, bossed possession, but got beaten 3-1. This is the minnows Swansea, whose team is made up largely of Championship and League One players, that's the context of what he's achieving. He has managed Swansea to victories over Liverpool, Man City, an Chelsea this season, in contrast, of those three sides we only managed victory over one of them - and his victories weren't backs-to-the-wall, withstand the siege and nick one in the 90th type victories, they were bona fide, out play, out pass, out defend, out score them type victories.

No one's saying Rodgers is the finished article, but credit where it's due please!

You're confusing them with Norwich.

Swansea's side is made up of Championship players and fringe prem players, not sure really any of them are of a lower level like League 1.

 

[Mr Pink]

Its a tight table from 8th-15th right now, so lets see where they finish in May. what I would say is that at least they have a clear structure in place which helps no end, rather than some other teams (eg. Wolves), I honestly couldnt tell you what approach they are trying to play.

I do think it is admirable they way he approaches the game, and they dont have the biggest budget so kudos to him for what he has done so far, but I dont think he is there yet. I wouldnt say Swansea play a particularly expansive game and its refelcted in the table, they control the middle with possession and therefore dont concede but dont have many in the goals scored column either. If managing us this happened then I could see a lot of our fans going into meltdown if we had loads of possession but no penetration on a regular basis, saying its not very effective. Off the ball I wasnt impressed with them, it looked like they hadnt done any work on it and were reliant on the ability to keep the ball, which only gets you so far, and were too open in defence.

I dont think he is ready yet, you disagree. It will be interesting to see how things turn out though.

I think Swansea's performance was one of the best this season at WHL, bar City obviously.

As for the highlighted part, that's the whole point...it wouldn't given the vastly superior quality of players we have here. What we want is an ethos that sees us get the best out of them, as a collective unit, on a regular basis.

 

[sloth]

You're confusing them with Norwich.

Swansea's side is made up of Championship players and fringe prem players, not sure really any of them are of a lower level like League 1.

Plenty of the came from Leagues One and Two. Yesterday they lined up like this:

Vorm (PL)
Rangel (League 1)
Monk (League 2)
Williams (League 1)
Taylor (Champ)
Britton (League 2)
Allen (Youth)
Sinclair (Champ)
Routledge (PL)
Sigurdsson (PL)
Graham (PL)

That's 36% signed when they were in the PL, 18% from the Championship, 9% from their youth system, and 36% from Leagues One and Two.