Spurs Youth Thread 20/21

[Joshua]

Cirkin, Thorpe, Edwards, Madueke. Markanday, and more that I’m not thinking of that have gone for peanuts. It’s basically throwing money away. Madueke and Edwards alone are worth about £30mil between them now. Needs to be a rethink of how we’re operating.

 

[Blake Griffin]

Cirkin, Thorpe, Edwards, Madueke. Markanday, and more that I’m not thinking of that have gone for peanuts. It’s basically throwing money away. Madueke and Edwards alone are worth about £30mil between them now. Needs to be a rethink of how we’re operating.

binks as well who is just breaking into bologna's side, a few more games and maybe paratici might notice him.

that's the frustrating thing for me, not so much that we're losing talent but that we're basically losing it for nothing. then again this is a club who have spent 100m on midfielders only to end up with winks and skipp starting, or 60m on right backs who are arguably no better than kwp.

 

[mancman]

A little sad to see Markanday leave (if the transfer goes through) but having seen him play, well he is worth £500,000 at most. Do remember if he can't get into the first team here it says a lot about him (Scarlett is ahead of him in the pecking order). Do remember he has scored 11 in 16 games this season (the team(U23) has scored 45 goals in 18 games), good but not earth shattering. Also remember he is really the only striker in the U23's (Scarlett rarely plays) and he is surrounded by a terrific midfield of Clarke, John, White and Devine. He is not good enough for the first team at the moment but I would have preferred for him to go on loan. I suspect that was what the club wants but who knows the mind of Markanday? Finally what really pisses me off is the lack of strikers throughout the club. at all levels.

 

[allatsea]

I’ve just seen some stuff from Hercules in transfer forum. So I presume he thinks Conte will still be backed this window. And also seems like he doesn’t rate Markanday, which I’d massively disagree with. Markanday has 100% deserved more of a chance this season and nothing will change my mind on that.

I don't know why you are wasting your time on SC you obviously feel you know more than Conte and his Coaches.

 

[Delboy75]

I don't know why you are wasting your time on SC you obviously feel you know more than Conte and his Coaches.

Well it’s blatantly obvious with the players we’ve lost in the last 3 years mistakes are being made. Are you saying they’ve got everything right ?

 

[Joshua]

binks as well who is just breaking into bologna's side, a few more games and maybe paratici might notice him.

that's the frustrating thing for me, not so much that we're losing talent but that we're basically losing it for nothing. then again this is a club who have spent 100m on midfielders only to end up with winks and skipp starting, or 60m on right backs who are arguably no better than kwp.

Think that’s the point people miss. A successful academy makes you money as well as players. Seen people say, “well obviously Markanday has been deemed not good enough” which is fine but doesn’t mean we should be leaving for pittance. He should’ve had a loan or first team exposure so we could’ve got money for him. There’s a consensus forming that Tanganga isn’t good enough, but he’s had exposure now so we’ll get £10mil+ for him easy if we decide to sell. That’s a mark of a well run academy just as much as the players you can use for the first team.

 

[allatsea]

Well it’s blatantly obvious with the players we’ve lost in the last 3 years mistakes are being made. Are you saying they’ve got everything right ?

No I am saying you seem to feel you know better than them so why aren’t you doing the job ?

 

[Westmorlandspur]

Cirkin, Thorpe, Edwards, Madueke. Markanday, and more that I’m not thinking of that have gone for peanuts. It’s basically throwing money away. Madueke and Edwards alone are worth about £30mil between them now. Needs to be a rethink of how we’re operating.

So there is a queue of clubs waiting to pay 10m for Edwards. I think not . Madueke is the only one of that lot who has remotely achieved anything, but that is Holland ...not always the best guide.
Not much we could do about him as he left at 16 before he signed a professional contract. Same happened with Sancho at City.

 

[Joshua]

So there is a queue of clubs waiting to pay 10m for Edwards. I think not . Madueke is the only one of that lot who has remotely achieved anything, but that is Holland ...not always the best guide.
Not much we could do about him as he left at 16 before he signed a professional contract. Same happened with Sancho at City.

Edwards is averaging a goal involvement every other game in Portugal these days. He’d fetch £10mil comfortably.

You’re missing the point though. That’s just a small sample of the players who’ve left for basically nothing. We consistently fail to give young players exposure and therefore hardly make anything off our academy. Not all of them are going to become £30million players. But a fair few could become £5mil - £10mil players. And they’re leaving for pennies if that.

 

[ralphs bald spot]

Well it’s blatantly obvious with the players we’ve lost in the last 3 years mistakes are being made. Are you saying they’ve got everything right ?

are they? Edwards has done very little Madueke its all gone very quite on - Cirkin has't pulled up any trees at Sunderland Thorpe hasn't featured at Luton at all Binks has played a couple of games in Italy and Griffiths is back in England

Its a shame when boys leave but we all tend to over rate the youth prospects Markanday looks useful but I doubt many of us have seen him live that much what with the pandemic watching the youth and reserves has been difficult - I hope he goes to Blackburn and burns it up but its going to be hard for him. Who he is going to replace at Tottenham none of the front 3 we are likely to sign another forward in the summer so where is his career path he is 20 years old and will have to improve past 4 proven internationals before he getsa kick in the first team so can't you blame him for leaving - thats the tough thing for kids at premier league clubs they don't need to just be good they need to be budding internationals as a minimum

 

[Joshua]

Not sure why people are defending the state of the academy. It doesn’t produce enough first team players or make us any money. Which are pretty much the only two barometers of a successful one. Especially poor being a big London club with a good catchment area AND with the facilities we have.

 

[kd2000]

I think people need to use a bit of perspective.
Were losing a player who is in no way a squad regular and no where near the first team.
Remember he has trained with the first team and been observed by Conte and his team.
If they thought he was ready or good enough for the first team, he would have played.
They see him day in day out. The vast majority on here who are projecting themselves as angry only know about him through this thread

 

[Delboy75]

It’s hard to see us have better obvious pulling power than the Pochettino years plus Kane emergence plus the best facility in the country combined. If you consider this would have started happening around 2016. We should start seeing first signs of it pretty soon which I believe we will. There’s certainly some talent with likes of John Dorrington Donley kyerematen etc plus our U16 have been having an excellent season. I’m hopeful next 2 or 3 years we might really see a golden patch. That’s obviously as long as we don’t screw it up and lose half of them.

 

[Blake Griffin]

are they? Edwards has done very little Madueke its all gone very quite on - Cirkin has't pulled up any trees at Sunderland Thorpe hasn't featured at Luton at all Binks has played a couple of games in Italy and Griffiths is back in England

Its a shame when boys leave but we all tend to over rate the youth prospects Markanday looks useful but I doubt many of us have seen him live that much what with the pandemic watching the youth and reserves has been difficult - I hope he goes to Blackburn and burns it up but its going to be hard for him. Who he is going to replace at Tottenham none of the front 3 we are likely to sign another forward in the summer so where is his career path he is 20 years old and will have to improve past 4 proven internationals before he getsa kick in the first team so can't you blame him for leaving - thats the tough thing for kids at premier league clubs they don't need to just be good they need to be budding internationals as a minimum

the thing that bugs me with this outlook though is that tanganga for example could easily have left for free, ended up at reading or somewhere and you'd be saying similarly dismissive things. instead though mourinho threw him in for a game, he did well, played a few more games(some good, some not so) and now, even though he's probably short of what we want, is a sellable asset who is likely to bring in a decent fee. tanganga's not a bigger talent than those listed(bar thorpe and griffiths) yet will fetch us much more than they have, combined. it may not work out exactly like that every time but you're never going to know until you give them the platform to prove otherwise.

I think people need to use a bit of perspective.
Were losing a player who is in no way a squad regular and no where near the first team.
Remember he has trained with the first team and been observed by Conte and his team.
If they thought he was ready or good enough for the first team, he would have played.
They see him day in day out. The vast majority on here who are projecting themselves as angry only know about him through this thread

no, i think you're missing the point somewhat.

the "anger" isn't so much that markanday should be playing, it's more that yet another promising talent has come through the system and at the end of it we're getting next to fuck all in return. it makes you question the point of even having an academy when you're getting so little out of it.

 

[eddiebailey]

No I am saying you seem to feel you know better than them so why are you doing the job ?

I am always puzzled why people with this sort of attitude bother posting on forums.

 

[kd2000]

the thing that bugs me with this outlook though is that tanganga for example could easily have left for free, ended up at reading or somewhere and you'd be saying similarly dismissive things. instead though mourinho threw him in for a game, he did well, played a few more games(some good, some not so) and now, even though he's probably short of what we want, is a sellable asset who is likely to bring in a decent fee. tanganga's not a bigger talent than those listed(bar thorpe and griffiths) yet will fetch us much more than they have, combined. it may not work out exactly like that every time but you're never going to know until you give them the platform to prove otherwise.


no, i think you're missing the point somewhat.

the "anger" isn't so much that markanday should be playing, it's more that yet another promising talent has come through the system and at the end of it we're getting next to fuck all in return. it makes you question the point of even having an academy when you're getting so little out of it.

That on isolation is a fair point.
However, plenty have been saying he should have been playing or on the bench, so have I really missed the point?
Or have I just missed your point?

I personally think it's the latter

 

[ralphs bald spot]

the thing that bugs me with this outlook though is that tanganga for example could easily have left for free, ended up at reading or somewhere and you'd be saying similarly dismissive things. instead though mourinho threw him in for a game, he did well, played a few more games(some good, some not so) and now, even though he's probably short of what we want, is a sellable asset who is likely to bring in a decent fee. tanganga's not a bigger talent than those listed(bar thorpe and griffiths) yet will fetch us much more than they have, combined. it may not work out exactly like that every time but you're never going to know until you give them the platform to prove otherwise.


no, i think you're missing the point somewhat.

the "anger" isn't so much that markanday should be playing, it's more that yet another promising talent has come through the system and at the end of it we're getting next to fuck all in return. it makes you question the point of even having an academy when you're getting so little out of it.

I am not being dismissive at all but as most things there are two sides to it - its great to see the kids break through but it is so difficult the standards they need to hit are so high - I do think they need opportunities but the pressure to succeed as a club is huge its a catch 22 situation. How do you give boys opportunities when you literally have a bench full of internationals ?

I don't have the answers at all - perhaps you should have to include two u23s on your bench or perhaps close the transfer market for players u21 which is probably illegal but might allow players to develop. I think the way football is now and especially at the top clubs blooding youngsters is a nightmare and some imposed rules might be the way to go otherwise I can see more clubs following Brentford's decision and scrap there youth teams

 

[sammyj]

are they? Edwards has done very little Madueke its all gone very quite on - Cirkin has't pulled up any trees at Sunderland Thorpe hasn't featured at Luton at all Binks has played a couple of games in Italy and Griffiths is back in England

Its a shame when boys leave but we all tend to over rate the youth prospects Markanday looks useful but I doubt many of us have seen him live that much what with the pandemic watching the youth and reserves has been difficult - I hope he goes to Blackburn and burns it up but its going to be hard for him. Who he is going to replace at Tottenham none of the front 3 we are likely to sign another forward in the summer so where is his career path he is 20 years old and will have to improve past 4 proven internationals before he getsa kick in the first team so can't you blame him for leaving - thats the tough thing for kids at premier league clubs they don't need to just be good they need to be budding internationals as a minimum

100%agree

 

[Blake Griffin]

That on isolation is a fair point.
However, plenty have been saying he should have been playing or on the bench, so have I really missed the point?
Or have I just missed your point?

I personally think it's the latter

well i can understand why they would feel that way also given the performances of some of those in the first team.

you say that if he was good enough then he would play, but what does "good enough" mean? does he need to be better than those in the first team? is that the only time you'll ever see a youth player get on the pitch? it can't be done with a longer-term view to show that the chances are there or just to see how they fare? or by not good enough, do you mean he's not good enough to hold his own against league 1 morecambe?

conte is a manager who only cares about the here and now so it's little surprise if he's got no time for a youth team player who he likely won't be here long enough for to ever benefit from. it doesn't necessarily mean that he doesn't rate him though but clearly he has bigger issues to contend with, that's all well and good now it doesn't help the club in the longer term when you're giving away players who could have either gone on to progress into the first team or been sold for a decent fee which we could have then pissed up the wall put towards players who might improve us.

 

[kd2000]

well i can understand why they would feel that way also given the performances of some of those in the first team.

you say that if he was good enough then he would play, but what does "good enough" mean? does he need to be better than those in the first team? is that the only time you'll ever see a youth player get on the pitch? it can't be done with a longer-term view to show that the chances are there or just to see how they fare? or by not good enough, do you mean he's not good enough to hold his own against league 1 morecambe?

conte is a manager who only cares about the here and now so it's little surprise if he's got no time for a youth team player who he likely won't be here long enough for to ever benefit from. it doesn't necessarily mean that he doesn't rate him though but clearly he has bigger issues to contend with, that's all well and good now it doesn't help the club in the longer term when you're giving away players who could have either gone on to progress into the first team or been sold for a decent fee which we could have then pissed up the wall put towards players who might improve us.

Fair enough, decent and well presented rebuttle