'Stats'

[double0]

Yes, you certainly can. Last year someone totted up Downing's and N'Zogbia's passing, crossing and dribbling statistics from Sky, divided them by three, took away the number they first thought of, and declared that N'Zogbia was by far the better player.

Exactly....

 

[C0YS]

Statistics are dangerous things in the wrong hands. If you haven't the training (and I haven't) they can seem to prove all sorts of things. I know because my company's all about statistics. We rate sports using them, generate odds and put our money where our mouth is by trading on sports events - succesfully.

But we can only do it because the brains behind the operation really knows what he's doing, even with his experience and ability though (one of the world's leading expert in games theory, mathmatician, statistician, British backgammon and bridge champion, chess olympian, world series finalist in poker, author of numerous books and creator of gambling games for bookmakers and pretty much a genius) we go down dead-ends, sometimes for months at a time. It's about picking the wheat from the chaff, spotting what's important and what isn't etc etc. I know it's obvious, but honestly, in the wrong hands stats can show black is white and the opposite. That's why for the rest of us mortals stats can be a useful back-up to something we think is obvious but can never actually be proof, however credible an argument seems.

indeed, like what happens when the police arrest more people.

pos: we are arresting more people which means we are a lot more effective then before

neg. we are arresting more people which means there is more vilonce these days then before

Neither of these are wrong or right they are just different interpretations of facts, and ofcourse it must happen in football. And annoyingly enough people constantly interpret stats to make people turn against something ect ect. The media that is. In my view stats should only ever be represented as stats, and they should speak for themselfs and let the reader diside. Im sure its the same in football

 

[Houdini]

indeed, like what happens when the polic arrest more people.

pos: we are arresting more people which means we are a lot more effective then before

neg. we are arresting more people which means there is more vilonce these days then before

Neither of these are wrong or right they are just different interpretations of facts, and ofcourse it must happen in football. And annoyingly enough people constantly interpret stats to make people turn against something ect ect. The media that is. In my view stats should only ever be represented as stats, and they should speak for themselfs and let the reader diside. Im sure its the same in football

A good way of explaining it COYS!:clap:

 

[muffwah]

All these stats that everyone uses are absolute tosh in my opinion.

Can we not leave them to basketball and baseball and the NFL? Those games are all about statistics.

We should be discussing a player's ability to change a game, just by what he does. He may have chosen to itch his leg before taking a free kick in one match and may have eaten a meat pie the match before. Both reasons could be given within the 'stat brigade for winning or failing.

Statistics just cover 90 minutes; a player might have been sent off or injured to allow another player to perform better 'assists' (and I hate that word).

Football in England seems to be going the American way. I loved it when people spoke in plain English about a player or Manager.

Too many people here hide behind stats when football is just such a simple game.

Was he good or not?
Yes or No?
Why do you believe that to be the case?
Answer?

Simple and easy.

It might show us who the 'lookers' are, rather than the 'watchers'.

You are missing one important issue, many people have no idea what they are really watching, talk shit and are easily influenced by other factors. stats are an important part of assessing the game.

 

[millhouse]

99% of stats are made up on the spot.
















I rest my case

 

[DC_Boy]

I think stats are great - and he more of them that are readily available the more useful it is-

I would definitely like to see all the pro zone stats on all the spurs players -

I take note of people's opinions of course, but it's also good to have stats back up -

of course you have to 'deconstruct the stats' eg know that some passes are easier to make than others - and my guess/hope would be that pro packages like pro zone would give more than just a pass completion rate - it would look at the range of passing etc too

however even at a basic level people will say X (let's call him Jermaine Jenas for example ) was useless - kept giving the ball away - then you see a pass completion of 90% - and despite its lack of sophistication it's far more more useful than the biased opinion and makes me happy when I can post said stat (NB this is based on a true story :wink:

 

[Rupstoh]

Just checked and Defoe went offside 8 times in 523 minutes for us this season, whilst Berba went offside 45 times in 2989 mins. So they both avergared an offside every 66 minutes. Unfortunatley they don't have the stats for last season, but I bet at the start of this season people tended to notice Defoe going off side more than Berbs. When you think Defoe's game is more geared towards playing off the last man then you'd expect him to get caught out more often and certainly in more noticeable situtations. In previous seasons Defoe did seem to get caught offside all the time (especially seeing as we played a 442, as it's more understandable in a 451) and though at the start of this season stats show he clearly had improved, I bet not many, if any, noticed.

Where did you find this information Joey?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

True. But many stats are used in far too crude a fashion.

Pass completion is a classic. The pass completion of a CM who looks to make difficult, forward, passes will usually be lower than that of a CM who simply recycles the ball very simply and hardly ever tries a difficult pass.

So, a Hoddle, or a Carrick or Modric type, will have a lower completion rate than say a Makelele or Zokora. And of course, this should be the case, because the CM playmaker has the vision and technique to see and play defence-splitting passes, and should be encouraged by his coach to try them when appropriate.

However this extra dimension of interpretation or understanding of a player's role in the team is usually missing when newspapers or websites present, say, midfield passing statistics.

This doesn't apply to you, Joey, as you usually use stats in a far more sophisticated fashion. :wink:

In the Library with the lead piping on Dr green kind of way you mean ?