'Stats'

[Rupstoh]

All these stats that everyone uses are absolute tosh in my opinion.

Can we not leave them to basketball and baseball and the NFL? Those games are all about statistics.

We should be discussing a player's ability to change a game, just by what he does. He may have chosen to itch his leg before taking a free kick in one match and may have eaten a meat pie the match before. Both reasons could be given within the 'stat brigade for winning or failing.

Statistics just cover 90 minutes; a player might have been sent off or injured to allow another player to perform better 'assists' (and I hate that word).

Football in England seems to be going the American way. I loved it when people spoke in plain English about a player or Manager.

Too many people here hide behind stats when football is just such a simple game.

Was he good or not?
Yes or No?
Why do you believe that to be the case?
Answer?

Simple and easy.

It might show us who the 'lookers' are, rather than the 'watchers'.

 

[Greavesy]

I've been living out here in the states for a couple of years and read an article in Sports Illustrated about how 'soccer' could appeal to Americans more. He basically said the only way is by adding loads more statistics, because that's how they like to talk about and understand their sports.

It works for them becasue the three sports you mention can be pretty well defined by statistics, whereas we all know football is a lot more subtle than just a few numbers.

Not sure I agree with your point though - people on here use statistics to try and back up an opinion on a certain player / formation / team. I agree, sometimes it's a load of cr*p, but other times it helps to illustrate a point. It's a bit better than saying 'Jenas was sh*te', and leaving it at that.

 

[Houdini]

Fuck stats, its opinions that count, well thats my opinion, anyway!:grin:

 

[marchimself]

I like stats, but I don't like stats appearing on my screen during the game. Telling how mnay metres a player has ran does not interest me during play.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

All these stats that everyone uses are absolute tosh in my opinion.

89% of fans agree with you :razz:

 

[joey55]

Stats aren't perfect, but if used correctly they can be more useful than human opinion, which is massively flawed. People are like sheep and often see what they want or are told to. If it's sasid the team is unfit, fans will start to notice when the players are breathing heavily and thus decide they are unfit. If a player is said to be accident prone, then everyone will start concentrating on him and notice every little thing he does wrong, without being comparitve with his peers. If it is said that a player is off side alot, people will look out for this and when he goes off side a few times, it will be seen as confirmation, even without comparing this with how often other players go off side. I won't bother with anymore examples as I'm sure you get the point. Human opinion on football is worth far less than we arrogantly tend to think it is.

 

[tooey]

i for one enjoy statistics not boring ones but ones like....
top team for hitting the woodwork
The player most fouled against
The player who has commited the most fouls

useless stats that dont really prove much point...(maybe a little) but stats that you think "ahh thats quite interesting!"

 

[tooey]

Stats aren't perfect, but if used correctly they can be more useful than human opinion, which is massively flawed. People are like sheep and often see what they want or are told to. If it's sasid the team is unfit, fans will start to notice when the players are breathing heavily and thus decide they are unfit. If a player is said to be accident prone, then everyone will start concentrating on him and notice every little thing he does wrong, without being comparitve with his peers. If it is said that a player is off side alot, people will look out for this and when he goes off side a few times, it will be seen as confirmation, even without comparing this with how often other players go off side. I won't bother with anymore examples as I'm sure you get the point. Human opinion on football is worth far less than we arrogantly tend to think it is.

Theres one thing i can say for sure (and im no statision) Defoe hets caught offside ALLLLLLLL the time, used to have me tearing my hair out. p.s i know you weren't singiling him out or infact used any example. Its just an observation....

 

[sloth]

Statistics are dangerous things in the wrong hands. If you haven't the training (and I haven't) they can seem to prove all sorts of things. I know because my company's all about statistics. We rate sports using them, generate odds and put our money where our mouth is by trading on sports events - succesfully.

But we can only do it because the brains behind the operation really knows what he's doing, even with his experience and ability though (one of the world's leading expert in games theory, mathmatician, statistician, British backgammon and bridge champion, chess olympian, world series finalist in poker, author of numerous books and creator of gambling games for bookmakers and pretty much a genius) we go down dead-ends, sometimes for months at a time. It's about picking the wheat from the chaff, spotting what's important and what isn't etc etc. I know it's obvious, but honestly, in the wrong hands stats can show black is white and the opposite. That's why for the rest of us mortals stats can be a useful back-up to something we think is obvious but can never actually be proof, however credible an argument seems.

 

[yanno]

Stats aren't perfect, but if used correctly they can be more useful than human opinion, which is massively flawed.

True. But many stats are used in far too crude a fashion.

Pass completion is a classic. The pass completion of a CM who looks to make difficult, forward, passes will usually be lower than that of a CM who simply recycles the ball very simply and hardly ever tries a difficult pass.

So, a Hoddle, or a Carrick or Modric type, will have a lower completion rate than say a Makelele or Zokora. And of course, this should be the case, because the CM playmaker has the vision and technique to see and play defence-splitting passes, and should be encouraged by his coach to try them when appropriate.

However this extra dimension of interpretation or understanding of a player's role in the team is usually missing when newspapers or websites present, say, midfield passing statistics.

This doesn't apply to you, Joey, as you usually use stats in a far more sophisticated fashion. :wink:

 

[joey55]

Theres one thing i can say for sure (and im no statision) Defoe hets caught offside ALLLLLLLL the time, used to have me tearing my hair out. p.s i know you weren't singiling him out or infact used any example. Its just an observation....

This is an excellent example. I know Defoe has a reputation for being caught off side, but he curbed that significanlty in the last year or so and probably got it down to less than Keane or Berba. But I bet everytime Defoe got caught off side, half the crowd thought "typical Defoe" and thus it stuck in their minds. Most of our fans would go to watch games expecting to see Defoe caught off side and thus really take note of it when it happens.

 

[Rupstoh]

This is an excellent example. I know Defoe has a reputation for being caught off side, but he curbed that significanlty in the last year or so and probably got it down to less than Keane or Berba. But I bet everytime Defoe got caught off side, half the crowd thought "typical Defoe" and thus it stuck in their minds. Most of our fans would go to watch games expecting to see Defoe caught off side and thus really take note of it when it happens.

Joey55: You actually use less stats than SS57. I offered SS57 a free ticket last season to watch the current team but he had other commitments which is fair.

 

[Yid-ol]

I would say stats are there to back up oppinions, and not to make oppinions of a player baised on stats!

 

[joey55]

Just checked and Defoe went offside 8 times in 523 minutes for us this season, whilst Berba went offside 45 times in 2989 mins. So they both avergared an offside every 66 minutes. Unfortunatley they don't have the stats for last season, but I bet at the start of this season people tended to notice Defoe going off side more than Berbs. When you think Defoe's game is more geared towards playing off the last man then you'd expect him to get caught out more often and certainly in more noticeable situtations. In previous seasons Defoe did seem to get caught offside all the time (especially seeing as we played a 442, as it's more understandable in a 451) and though at the start of this season stats show he clearly had improved, I bet not many, if any, noticed.

 

[double0]

Football really is a simple game. The growing introduction of sport science (not a bad thing) has taken the game to areas which require measurement for data (science) The statisticians love it and neatly present it to us like an M.O.T Print Out.

If you know what your doing you can manipulate stats to suit your own argument.

 

[SpurSince57]

Yes, you certainly can. Last year someone totted up Downing's and N'Zogbia's passing, crossing and dribbling statistics from Sky, divided them by three, took away the number they first thought of, and declared that N'Zogbia was by far the better player.

 

[Houdini]

This stat of players running around the pitch and obtaining the greatest amount of yards/metres, what is that all about?
The offsides, fouls, bookings, throw ins, corners, time of goals etc are understandable, because of betting purposes, the rest of it is for sad anoraks that want/need to feel clever and hope to win arguments based on someone else's information and recollection of what happened!
The only real value in stats is when we have some interest in a Fantasy Football team, and are awarded points for assists and clean sheets etc, based on the stats provided.

 

[speccy_spur]

I just hate the way Sky Sports News 'Through the Night' they show here just fills in time with loads of stats after every statement. Must be to try and appeal to the n.american audience. The only stat that matters is number of wins and number of points. Arsenal's pass percentage may be amazing, but they have won sod all recently.

 

[Houdini]

Its called 'filler', they mention a shit load of stuff to fill the time they are allocated to the game, if it was a boring 0-0 draw then expect more crap about the size of the crowd or state of the pitch, using all the subs, and mention the players previous clubs!

 

[stemark44]

I watch football with my eyes and have done so for many many years - they tell me who is good,who is poor,who is important to the team and who is'nt!