steel in midfield

[bill]

I am a little worried about our 'presence' in midfield. I just watched the Bolton v scum game it really hit home how weak we are in midfield compared to 'bruisers' like Bolton.

Even though we are full of class and skill, we do lack that bite!

Zokora does provide some steel in midfield but his distribution is dire and i dont want to open a Zokora discussion as it has been done-to-death on this forum.

So to my point.

Who do we have to 'get stuck in? In the past we have had the services of solid men who got 'stuck in', In my time I can think of Perryman, Roberts, Ruddock, Mabbut, Yorath, Freund (yes i know), Tarrico (yes, i know - again). The famous Mackay, Blanchflower are only players I seen on VID/DVD.



So where is Spurs' enforcer?

The best we have at the moment IMO is O'Hara - for me, he is a very decent player. He is not a 'classy player' but i for one, like him. One that at this moment if we are to play the 'lightweights' of Modric, Gio and Lennon, well then we need an O'Hara type to tidy-up and distribute, get forward and tap in the odd goal or three.

What say you? You doyens of Spurs Community - and others!

 

[robbiesavagehasbreasts]

:shrug:

 

[TwoSaintsComeMarching]

This will give us the steel we need for tomorrows game:

Gomes

Gunter ... Woody ... Corluka ... Ekotto

Zokora .... OHara

Bentley ....... Jenas ......... Bale

Pav​

 

[Rackybear]

O'Hara certainly needs to play. Its not only that he might add some bite to the middle, but he has come through the ranks at spurs, and for him to make the step up to the first team last season was a dream come true. Like mark noble for west ham, he loves the club and wants to prove himself and would have no more joy then being in the first 11, he will give 100% and sweat blood for the team because he knows what it means to fans to play for THFC unlike foreigners!

He deserves to play for his effort and love for the badge more then anything else.

 

[southlondonyiddo]

We have no steel and we'll walk the fair play award again this season.

.....oh and I dont want to start the Zokora thing again but he's shite.

 

[DC_Boy]

bentley jj zoko o'hara - pav/campbell bent

keep bale at LB

 

[Dibby]

Zokora does provide some steel in midfield but his distribution is dire and i dont want to open a Zokora discussion as it has been done-to-death on this forum.

Tough, it's happening.

Zokora's distribution has been far from awful so far this season. Thus far, he is my Steeeeeeeeed of the season.

 

[southlondonyiddo]

Tough, it's happening.

Zokora's distribution has been far from awful so far this season. Thus far, he is my Steeeeeeeeed of the season.

Yeah that's why we're bottom mate.

Zoko is shocking and as long as he plays in central midfield we'll never get anywhere

 

[Krafty]

There is little aggression in the team at all, nevermind in midfield, but midfield is where we need it most.

Jenas, Zokora, Modric and Huddlestone are not the biggest of tacklers, and are not tough enough. Zokora is alarmingly not strong enough in the tackle for someone who is meant to be a DM, or at least plays there.

Even O'Hara isnt super aggressive/strong, but he is the best we have in that department. I'm all for playing him, and probably at Zokora's expense

 

[SpurSince57]

We have no steel and we'll walk the fair play award again this season.

.....oh and I dont want to start the Zokora thing again but he's shite.

Ramos would appear to disagree with you.

I still have misgivings about him, but shite he isn't.

 

[southlondonyiddo]

Ramos would appear to disagree with you.

I still have misgivings about him, but shite he isn't.

He'd swap him for Diarra quicker than you could say Glenn Hoddle

 

[Bus-Conductor]

SS is right. Zokora can be improved on but not very easily which is why we haven't. The only step up is going to cost us in the region of 15+mil. people who say his passing is poor are idiots who not only don't comprehend what they see with their own eyes but have failed to read simple stats. He has always had one of the best pass completion rates in the EPL. Currently his pass completion rate stands at 88% this season. As a comparison Denilson of Arsenal who has played similar minutes is 83%. Fabregas's is 80%. I only looked at Arsenal but you get the picture. One thing he doesn't do is give the ball away very often. They may not be spectacular passes but FFS if you are going to criticise the fella at least pick on his fucking weaknesses.

He isn't the best tackler and he really isn't a nasty ball breaking DM. Positionally he is occasionally found wanting too, but no more than any of our other midfielders.

He consistantly puts in his 100% effort, unlike the incredibly frustrating Jenas. he does tackle, he does track back and cover often and rarely gives the ball away.

Those sggesting Ohara as our DM are probably the same muppets who don't know why they are criticising Zokora because Ohara is even worse at tackling and tracking his runner and is only marginally more mobile than Huddlestone. Against Villa he completed 21 of 25 passes. Zokora completed 25 of 26.

At the moment the only CM pairing worth consideration are Zokora and Jenas. Wheter a four or a five.

And until we sign somebody more dynamic than these two that's how it is.

 

[southlondonyiddo]

SS is right. Zokora can be improved on but not very easily which is why we haven't. The only step up is going to cost us in the region of 15+mil. people who say his passing is poor are idiots who not only don't comprehend what they see with their own eyes but have failed to read simple stats. He has always had one of the best pass completion rates in the EPL. Currently his pass completion rate stands at 88% this season. As a comparison Denilson of Arsenal who has played similar minutes is 83%. Fabregas's is 80%. I only looked at Arsenal but you get the picture. One thing he doesn't do is give the ball away very often. They may not be spectacular passes but FFS if you are going to criticise the fella at least pick on his fucking weaknesses.

He isn't the best tackler and he really isn't a nasty ball breaking DM. Positionally he is occasionally found wanting too, but no more than any of our other midfielders.

He consistantly puts in his 100% effort, unlike the incredibly frustrating Jenas. he does tackle, he does track back and cover often and rarely gives the ball away.

Those sggesting Ohara as our DM are probably the same muppets who don't know why they are criticising Zokora because Ohara is even worse at tackling and tracking his runner and is only marginally more mobile than Huddlestone.

At the moment the only CM pairing worth consideration are Zokora and Jenas. Wheter a four or a five.

And until we sign somebody more dynamic than these two that's how it is.

I couldn't agree less on your observations of Zoko pops....but hey thats what makes this such a super game to follow!!

 

[Bus-Conductor]

For what it's worth I'd have like Diarra too. I was really disapointed that the ITK on him didn't come to fruition. Because despite SS's misgivings I think Diarra was just a kid who wanted to play football regularly, not a trouble maker.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I couldn't agree less on your observations of Zoko pops....but hey thats what makes this such a super game to follow!!

It's not a matter of disagreeing. How can you disagree with a simple straightforward passing stat. Whatever else you think about him, and I know he has weaknesses, he doesn't give the ball away often and is anything but shit. In the absence of Lee and Malbranque he is probably the most consistant player (however good you or I think that is) in our team.

 

[TwoSaintsComeMarching]

SS is right. Zokora can be improved on but not very easily which is why we haven't. The only step up is going to cost us in the region of 15+mil. people who say his passing is poor are idiots who not only don't comprehend what they see with their own eyes but have failed to read simple stats. He has always had one of the best pass completion rates in the EPL. Currently his pass completion rate stands at 88% this season. As a comparison Denilson of Arsenal who has played similar minutes is 83%. Fabregas's is 80%. I only looked at Arsenal but you get the picture. One thing he doesn't do is give the ball away very often. They may not be spectacular passes but FFS if you are going to criticise the fella at least pick on his fucking weaknesses.

He isn't the best tackler and he really isn't a nasty ball breaking DM. Positionally he is occasionally found wanting too, but no more than any of our other midfielders.

He consistantly puts in his 100% effort, unlike the incredibly frustrating Jenas. he does tackle, he does track back and cover often and rarely gives the ball away.

Those sggesting Ohara as our DM are probably the same muppets who don't know why they are criticising Zokora because Ohara is even worse at tackling and tracking his runner and is only marginally more mobile than Huddlestone. Against Villa he completed 21 of 25 passes. Zokora completed 25 of 26.

At the moment the only CM pairing worth consideration are Zokora and Jenas. Wheter a four or a five.

And until we sign somebody more dynamic than these two that's how it is.

:clap: Have some +rep for that.

 

[Rackybear]

Some fans really are fickle, praise after chelsea game and then nothing but pessimism theirafter (uhm until his next decent performance anyway).

I believe zokora plays very very well in a 4-5-1 because his job is more defined and he can concentrate on that 100%, as he has two other ball playing center midfielders in front of him.

In a 4-4-2 however, with only 1 other midfielder along with him, his role is not only to sit in front of the back four, but to make himself open for a pass as well as help push forward on occasions and be side to side almost with Jenas. This widens his responsibilities and I feel is where zoko struggles, but he is by no means a shit player. Yes he can have his poor-ish performances and concentration lapses, but he also plays great games at RB, CD and CM.

I think he plays really well in a 3-5-2 as well. I remember on a few occasions in ramos' early tenure when we were behind and chasing a game (most notibly vs Aalborg at WHL, 2-0 down), zokora played just in front of the lone central defender, time and time again he was in the right place and was stealing the ball of the opposition - generally just breaking up attacks.

He doesnt get enough praise sometimes really. But he is definetly 50% more effective in a 5 man midfield. He does not have the brains of a carrick to be disciplined and know when to go forward in a 4-4-2 system.

 

[gibbs131]

SS is right. Zokora can be improved on but not very easily which is why we haven't. The only step up is going to cost us in the region of 15+mil. people who say his passing is poor are idiots who not only don't comprehend what they see with their own eyes but have failed to read simple stats. He has always had one of the best pass completion rates in the EPL. Currently his pass completion rate stands at 88% this season. As a comparison Denilson of Arsenal who has played similar minutes is 83%. Fabregas's is 80%. I only looked at Arsenal but you get the picture. One thing he doesn't do is give the ball away very often. They may not be spectacular passes but FFS if you are going to criticise the fella at least pick on his fucking weaknesses.

He isn't the best tackler and he really isn't a nasty ball breaking DM. Positionally he is occasionally found wanting too, but no more than any of our other midfielders.

He consistantly puts in his 100% effort, unlike the incredibly frustrating Jenas. he does tackle, he does track back and cover often and rarely gives the ball away.

Those sggesting Ohara as our DM are probably the same muppets who don't know why they are criticising Zokora because Ohara is even worse at tackling and tracking his runner and is only marginally more mobile than Huddlestone. Against Villa he completed 21 of 25 passes. Zokora completed 25 of 26.

At the moment the only CM pairing worth consideration are Zokora and Jenas. Wheter a four or a five.

And until we sign somebody more dynamic than these two that's how it is.

Lol. I like Zok but he always passes backwards or feeds the ATTACKING midfielder (Which is everyone apart from Zok....Close easy passes)

You haven't got a clue mate! Stats for Zoks passing are irrelevant.

:grin:

A stat that IS relevant is the distance he runs per match, and the ground he covers to avert easy passes by the op.

Speaking of steel:

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=30928

You have to trust ole Gibbsy. That was before the season even started. :hello:

 

[Krafty]

Zokora works best in a midfield 3 like we played against Chelsea, and like Ivory Coast play most of the time.

He isnt an attacking player, he lacks any creativity or vision. He doesnt lose the ball often but very rarely plays anything but the simple ball, and isnt willing to take risks. When you have an attacking player alongside him who will do that its not so bad, but in a midfield two its difficult to have that attacking player with him, because he can be found wanting defensively.

There are lies, damn lies and statistics. I could get 90% passing completion if I only passed the ball to a free fullback, centre back or keeper.

However, I dont think that is necessarily the biggest problem, its the fact that he has no vision. Plenty of players just give the ball to someone else, but they do it quickly, no more than two touches. The feeling you get with Zokora, and Jenas, is they dont think about what they are going to do with the ball until they get it. They get closed down easily, or end up meandering with the ball, before being forced to give it to a centre back. If they did it quickly, we move the ball from side to side quickly, then we could stretch teams and open up spaces.

When you add that he isnt the best defensively, it becomes a bit of a worry. I really hoped that Zokora would kick on, but I dont think its his style. He runs the ball out of defence, taking it from the middle of one half to the middle of another. But he needs someone to do a job in the first and final third, a defensive man to provide the bite when we are defending, and an attacking man to provide the creativity and vision when we are attacking.

I'm just not sure 4-4-2 suits him at all, and he is not good enough to warrant building the team to suit him.

 

[danielneeds]

If the original poster is talking about a pure enforcer, then Hutton was known to put a few reducers in on his winger up in Scotland. Haven't seen him do it down south yet...