Stop everything you’re doing and read this

[dudu]

Thanks mate , love you too

Sorry to jump on your post mate, it just seemed a little odd to end your post with a completely unnecessary point about ENIC and Levy in a thread that has nothing to do with them.

 

[Albertbarich]

Sorry to jump on your post mate, it just seemed a little odd to end your post with a completely unnecessary point about ENIC and Levy in a thread that has nothing to do with them.

It's OK debate is good and it's early so my post was a little jumpy as I wanted to respond and I'm only one coffee in.

I think enic is relevant as many if the replies are saying you could say the same about spurs fans in regards to enic , that's why I mentioned them.

Back on topic if you will though I sometimes feel fans give this new type of fan too much grief. The Mourinhoistas were the oddest bunch I've ever come across for example but they seemed to be mainly young men from Africa and Asia so of course they wouldn't understand the football culture in Europe or South America.

Old pricks like me also have to accept that the teenagers trolling twitter making any thread unreadable are just kids. I dont engage with them but others getting angry would do well to step away as you're not going to tell a 14 year old to behave on the Internet. ( I have no proof of age but you get my drift.)

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Careful Dougal, that kind of chat will have you labelled a dissident round here…

Totally agree with you though. My opinion on how right you are is dialled up to 11!

 

[PLTuck]

PS The phenomena of the 'online fan' is certainly not limited to football.

As massive nerds, my brother and I frequent boardgame and rpg forums regularly, and we're always noticing the number of opinionated 'gamers', who quite blatantly have never played the game their pontificating about, because of the obvious rule errors they make in their posts.

I think people just want to feel intelligent, or important, or heard in a world that increasingly is ignoring them.

I don't say that to be snide; I think it affects everyone and it's a real issue.

That is really quite profound, and I fully agree.

 

[Push & Run]

I read this thread yesterday and thought it to be well written and probably applies to all clubs. So to make an informed judgement on the following I need facts, so could anyone please give me factual info (not press innuendo) into my following concerns;
Were we discussing deals with Grealish and Bruno F, if so why did we not complete?
Why we have signed players who have not been fit to play. Sess, GLC and Romero all came to the club with injuries. How can they pass a medical if so?
How was player research carried out before Para. Was it DL, manager, scouting staff or all 3. If so is our present system Para + Nuno + scouting?
I know these topics have probably been discussed a million times before, but probably because of personal agendas and not factual info, so please don't shout what has these questions got to do with this thread because my answer is everything if you agree it is right.
Happy days Bob

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

Enic have achieved nothing like it and were back to the mid table. There is loads of other stuff too that has been discussed to death but the owners deserve more stick not less. There is a reason levys nickname is Teflon.

LOOOOOL did you read the article?

 

[Push & Run]

LOOOOOL did you read the article?

The Liverpool thread yes

 

[cozzo]

It’s the spurs fans/accounts that are always tweeting reactionary tweets every time a player that we were linked to scores a goal or has a good game. Always happens after we lose a game or have a bad result. Then they blame Levy for not buying that player.

 

[dudu]

I read this thread yesterday and thought it to be well written and probably applies to all clubs. So to make an informed judgement on the following I need facts, so could anyone please give me factual info (not press innuendo) into my following concerns;
Were we discussing deals with Grealish and Bruno F, if so why did we not complete?
Why we have signed players who have not been fit to play. Sess, GLC and Romero all came to the club with injuries. How can they pass a medical if so?
How was player research carried out before Para. Was it DL, manager, scouting staff or all 3. If so is our present system Para + Nuno + scouting?
I know these topics have probably been discussed a million times before, but probably because of personal agendas and not factual info, so please don't shout what has these questions got to do with this thread because my answer is everything if you agree it is right.
Happy days Bob

I won't shout it, I promise.

I just don't think this is the thread for anyone to be making informed judgements about the clubs transfer policies - it is a thread to discuss how toxic online discussions about transfers and football, in general, can be, especially when done in the form of loaded questions like the above.

If you want factual information then your best bet is to either look for news articles about it or write an email to the club.

 

[Albertbarich]

LOOOOOL did you read the article?

Yes. Did you?

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

Yes. Did you?

Yes I did and thought the part where it highighted fans using ridiculous hyperbole to ram home points was particularly interesting...

 

[Albertbarich]

Yes I did and thought the part where it highighted fans using ridiculous hyperbole to ram home points was particularly interesting...

So you thought you would reply out of context and be rude.

Nice.

 

[jurgen]

It's an interesting enough read, although it's a shame that some people had to conflate the ENIC conversation to this piece so quickly, as reductive statements come from both sides and neither are overly helpful (for 'ENIC are leeches' read 'do a Leeds'). The contexts of the two clubs are also quite different. But he calls for a more nuanced discussion of ownership, which is what we need, although then reverts to the 'better the devil you know' line. But I can also accept that the loudest voices on social media come from the ENIC-out side.

For me one of the issues of the piece is the 'capitalist critique', which is hard to take seriously when clubs are so absolutely complicit in treating their fans as consumers - and our club is as bad, and arguably worse at this than others. There's obviously the big issues like the Super League, and ticket prices - charging a premium price has its implications - and then multiple smaller ones which contribute to a toxic atmosphere. Social media is not the only thing that has raised expectations in fans, the clubs must take some responsibility for this too. Clubs and the consultants they employ are the ones responsible for putting corporate terms like 'legacy fans' and 'anchor tenants' out into the world, not the supporters. The social media presence of clubs has also started to trend towards 'banter' which shows they are aware of how to engage with these types of fans and do actively court the traffic they bring.

 

[Metalhead]

I read this thread yesterday and thought it to be well written and probably applies to all clubs. So to make an informed judgement on the following I need facts, so could anyone please give me factual info (not press innuendo) into my following concerns;
Were we discussing deals with Grealish and Bruno F, if so why did we not complete?
Why we have signed players who have not been fit to play. Sess, GLC and Romero all came to the club with injuries. How can they pass a medical if so?
How was player research carried out before Para. Was it DL, manager, scouting staff or all 3. If so is our present system Para + Nuno + scouting?
I know these topics have probably been discussed a million times before, but probably because of personal agendas and not factual info, so please don't shout what has these questions got to do with this thread because my answer is everything if you agree it is right.
Happy days Bob

I do think that it's fair to critique the way that the club does things. The way that I read the article was that it referred to the type of fan who demands a signing almost for the sake of it because their mate who's a united fan seemingly has one up on them because Man United have signed a player.

 

[spursfan77]

Give it time!

Blimey has anyone actually read all of that. Well done if you did ???

That is exactly what I'm saying.

I read most of the article and skimmed bits. The essence of it is right though.

 

[easley91]

PS The phenomena of the 'online fan' is certainly not limited to football.

As massive nerds, my brother and I frequent boardgame and rpg forums regularly, and we're always noticing the number of opinionated 'gamers', who quite blatantly have never played the game their pontificating about, because of the obvious rule errors they make in their posts.

I think people just want to feel intelligent, or important, or heard in a world that increasingly is ignoring them.

I don't say that to be snide; I think it affects everyone and it's a real issue.

Okay, this one hit home big time. Always feel like my opinions go unheard. Don't care if not agreed with (unless those disagreeing are chucking insults et all), just hear the argument.

 

[vegassd]

I read this thread yesterday and thought it to be well written and probably applies to all clubs. So to make an informed judgement on the following I need facts, so could anyone please give me factual info (not press innuendo) into my following concerns;

The only way to truly know the facts of any of the scenarios you describe is to have been in the room when they were discussed, or at least be a part of the admin chain that follows from those decisions.

The Internet is obviously full of tidbits of information relating to football transfers, and I think you will find the majority of (if not all) fans are guilty of confirmation bias. If you read something that backs up your established view you are more likely to give credence to it than something that goes against that belief.

I think there was info regarding Poch preferring Lo Celso over Fernandes for example, whilst there was also info that our contract offer was not as high as Utd's. I don't know if either can even be proved as "fact", so the likely scenario is that everybody who thought X still thinks X, and everybody who thought Y still thinks Y - and both parties now believe that have further info to back up that belief.

That's where Twitter and other forums (including SC) can end up being an echo chamber. Many people will only believe what they want to believe.

What's refreshing about that article is that it's very clear evidence that what many Spurs fans feel about our club is common to even the biggest clubs in history, and those with recent trophy wins. Hopefully this knowledge would help temper the negativity... it's not just us who get frustrated by our transfer activity. But we know it won't.

 

[SandroClegane]

Seem to be a lot of discussions in and around SC at the moment which seem to chime nicely with this article.

What's the remedy though? Do people just need to stop digesting content on platforms like twitter? Stop reacting to it? Spend less time engaged by it?

I do use twitter but have to say less and less. I've also been on here for a long time now and whilst i post less than i did many moons ago, i don't think my posts have become increasingly knee-jerk or troll-like but perhaps i'm too much of a twat to realise.

Perhaps it's the amount of time people spend on the more toxic areas of football discussion? If you don't get your head out of twitter from time to time, you're going to absorb a bit of that negativity riling you up and gradually become a part of some discussions/arguments you'd really not want to if you were to regain some perspective. Same could be said for SC but all in all i'd still have faith that some sense would prevail here, thanks to the majority of decent posters here.

For me that's the thing that's lacking most of all; perspective, and real-life perspective at that. Perhaps it's no coincidence that football twitters most toxic trolls tend to be younger and/or from other parts of the world?

We all lacked a bit of wisdom at a younger age and the game has changed so much in recent times, how the younger generation of fans (generalising massively here) interact with their club is very different to what it was 10, 20, 30 years ago.

Additionally, if you're a fan from another country, you may not have ever actually seen your team play. So where do you 'follow' them so to speak? How do you engage in fandom without being physically at the stadium or amongst other fans? This for me is where the online experience lacks perspective and is potentially amplified by the sheer volume of foreign fans who follow the premier league or the massive European clubs.

Trying to steer away slightly from the anti-youth, anti-foreigner hot take i've just made - Any fan consuming content about their club, primarily online, with limited first-hand perspective, has the potential to become a very limited, very knee-jerk fan.

As one of those foreigners that has never been to a Spurs match outside of when they've visited the states, I agree wholeheartedly. I originally started following Spurs as one of my teachers was from Enfield and his mention of Tottenham was the first time I had heard about them. I liked what I saw on the pitch and started following them, and had friends who followed other clubs so it made for some good banter and rivalry.

When I joined a "supporters club" that did local match watches at a bar, it was fun to connect with those people as well. But then you started to see some of the moaners coming to the bar, and it became depressing to go watch the match, because you knew those folks would be vocally annoying the entire time. It wasn't about supporting the club. After a draw or loss (or even a 1-0 where we didn't play well but scraped a result) it was just depressing. So I stopped going.

I gave up on living and dying with every result a long time ago. You can't let something you don't control affect your everyday life. I can't wait to visit the stadium as things begin returning to normal. But the negativity makes it hard to be an "online" fan. I want to celebrate the victories and be entertained but if that doesn't happen my day won't be any different. I avoid this place for at least a few days after a loss.

You can be reasoned and nuanced after a bad match, but it just seems like most would rather scream "Nuno Out" and "ENIC Out" or "Tanguy should be fired into the sun" to release frustrations.

 

[easley91]

As one of those foreigners that has never been to a Spurs match outside of when they've visited the states, I agree wholeheartedly. I originally started following Spurs as one of my teachers was from Enfield and his mention of Tottenham was the first time I had heard about them. I liked what I saw on the pitch and started following them, and had friends who followed other clubs so it made for some good banter and rivalry.

When I joined a "supporters club" that did local match watches at a bar, it was fun to connect with those people as well. But then you started to see some of the moaners coming to the bar, and it became depressing to go watch the match, because you knew those folks would be vocally annoying the entire time. It wasn't about supporting the club. After a draw or loss (or even a 1-0 where we didn't play well but scraped a result) it was just depressing. So I stopped going.

I gave up on living and dying with every result a long time ago. You can't let something you don't control affect your everyday life. I can't wait to visit the stadium as things begin returning to normal. But the negativity makes it hard to be an "online" fan. I want to celebrate the victories and be entertained but if that doesn't happen my day won't be any different. I avoid this place for at least a few days after a loss.

You can be reasoned and nuanced after a bad match, but it just seems like most would rather scream "Nuno Out" and "ENIC Out" or "Tanguy should be fired into the sun" to release frustrations.

Could not agree more.

 

[HNIM]

As one of those foreigners that has never been to a Spurs match outside of when they've visited the states, I agree wholeheartedly. I originally started following Spurs as one of my teachers was from Enfield and his mention of Tottenham was the first time I had heard about them. I liked what I saw on the pitch and started following them, and had friends who followed other clubs so it made for some good banter and rivalry.

When I joined a "supporters club" that did local match watches at a bar, it was fun to connect with those people as well. But then you started to see some of the moaners coming to the bar, and it became depressing to go watch the match, because you knew those folks would be vocally annoying the entire time. It wasn't about supporting the club. After a draw or loss (or even a 1-0 where we didn't play well but scraped a result) it was just depressing. So I stopped going.

I gave up on living and dying with every result a long time ago. You can't let something you don't control affect your everyday life. I can't wait to visit the stadium as things begin returning to normal. But the negativity makes it hard to be an "online" fan. I want to celebrate the victories and be entertained but if that doesn't happen my day won't be any different. I avoid this place for at least a few days after a loss.

You can be reasoned and nuanced after a bad match, but it just seems like most would rather scream "Nuno Out" and "ENIC Out" or "Tanguy should be fired into the sun" to release frustrations.

Absolutely the same here, except that at least in our chapter of supporters, there's not a lot of the negativity of the type in the column in the OP. Plenty of fatalism, because that's our lot in life, but nothing oppressive.

I do wish the UK supporters who are able to attend matches even on a sporadic basis would appreciate how good they have it. We'll get there eventually.