Sugar Daddy...

[absolute bobbins]

It is far, far off in my opinion.

If Apple or the Dubai Tourist Board or Exxon or some stupid-rich individual with a tiny penis decides they need to buy some trophies in a hurry and and use our club to do it, that is a very different from building your wealth through being a consistently attractive, exciting football club that year after year gains more and more popular support, enabling it to invest its honest earnings in better players, a better stadium and developing a better club.

It still surprises me that so many people choose to ignore the difference.

It’s not they ignore it, they don’t understand it.

For those who don’t understand it, think about it this way.
If you give a man a fish, he eats for a day. If to teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime.

 

[nicdic]

@bomberH, why is the romantic view not OK? What's wrong with caring about values above the success? Is success really all that matters? Aren't we a club that has always insisted that the way you win matters? Romanticism is quintessentially Tottenham. So naff off with your that's just romantic, you don't believe that tosh.

 

[bomberH]

@bomberH, why is the romantic view not OK? What's wrong with caring about values above the success? Is success really all that matters? Aren't we a club that has always insisted that the way you win matters? Romanticism is quintessentially Tottenham. So naff off with your that's just romantic, you don't believe that tosh.

It's quite simple, if you want to win trophies and the only way you can do so is by cash investment like other clubs are doing, then why the heck wouldn't you?

There's a fine line between romanticism and defeatism. You're basically saying to me you'd never care if we never won anything again, as long as we play nice football and don't have a cash investment, because it's 'the Spurs way'. The Spurs way is also fucking up lots of things along the way. The Spurs way includes sometimes ripping off fans with ticket prices and merchandise, along with most other clubs in the league. The Spurs way is 'sacking' Martin Jol mid game. A large section of our fans sang racist songs about Campbell and Adebayor. Some still sing about looking forward to Campbell's funeral.... My point is, we're no more or less romantic than any other club. We won the league twice by playing glorious football over 50/60 years ago and we had a decent 5 year spell over 30 years ago where we won stuff playing nice football. Apart from that, we've pretty much done fuck all.

So to answer your points, in an ideal world, we'd win it as we are and get the praise we would massively deserve from everyone. That would be romantic. Is it likely to happen without investment? I don't know.

Do you really care about values over success? You're happy to never win a trophy as long as we're run the right way. I call bullshit. If I told you now we'd never win a trophy in our lifetime but play nice stuff instead and are well run, you'd be gutted, heartbroken. What's the point of watching? Yes you may be entertained but the whole point of supporting a team is to see them try and win. Winning is the aim for everyone involved at a club. Everyone! Winning means getting trophies. After 40 years of watching with little to no hope, I now want to watch us win. I want the whole package because it's possible now, because we've come so far. I want good football and trophies. I want to keep our best players. I want to win everything. And if it means it's doable with the help of more cash - as others are doing - then great. We're doing nothing wrong or illegal, we'd be just doing what we had to do to keep up with others who have started the trend.

I think too many people on here saw the words 'City' and 'Chelsea' in the title and voted no because they don't want to be associated with those clubs. They're being romantic. But why do we question transfers? Why do we moan like bitches when Isco etc doesn't come after all? It's because we want to win matches. We want to win the league. Football has changed because of Chelsea and City. Following suit may be necessary. It's not our fault. We'd all like to have won it the 'right' way but it's so much more difficult now with the money at these clubs and the fact they pray on clubs like us. We're very close to being something special, I bet your ballbags that Poch would double everyone's wages if he could, and that he'd buy the best players available if he could. We should take advantage of that situation if it came along, not sit back and risk being left behind.

Leicester could be the last real romantic football story, premier league wise. And look what happened. They lost 2 of their best players and are now fighting relegation. If you want romantic, look in your wife's eyes while you're making love to her. Or in the mirror if you're banging it from behind. But I'd like to see success now. Doing it the way we are currently doing it would be just beautiful, but I'd like to do it by any means possible.

 

[Spurger King]

It’s not they ignore it, they don’t understand it.

For those who don’t understand it, think about it this way.
If you give a man a fish, he eats for a day. If to teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime.

Or you starve because some rich bastards are scooping up all of the fish to feed their friends and family.

 

[Trix]

It's quite simple, if you want to win trophies and the only way you can do so is by cash investment like other clubs are doing, then why the heck wouldn't you?

There's a fine line between romanticism and defeatism. You're basically saying to me you'd never care if we never won anything again, as long as we play nice football and don't have a cash investment, because it's 'the Spurs way'. The Spurs way is also fucking up lots of things along the way. The Spurs way includes sometimes ripping off fans with ticket prices and merchandise, along with most other clubs in the league. The Spurs way is 'sacking' Martin Jol mid game. A large section of our fans sang racist songs about Campbell and Adebayor. Some still sing about looking forward to Campbell's funeral.... My point is, we're no more or less romantic than any other club. We won the league twice by playing glorious football over 50/60 years ago and we had a decent 5 year spell over 30 years ago where we won stuff playing nice football. Apart from that, we've pretty much done fuck all.

So to answer your points, in an ideal world, we'd win it as we are and get the praise we would massively deserve from everyone. That would be romantic. Is it likely to happen without investment? I don't know.

Do you really care about values over success? You're happy to never win a trophy as long as we're run the right way. I call bullshit. If I told you now we'd never win a trophy in our lifetime but play nice stuff instead and are well run, you'd be gutted, heartbroken. What's the point of watching? Yes you may be entertained but the whole point of supporting a team is to see them try and win. Winning is the aim for everyone involved at a club. Everyone! Winning means getting trophies. After 40 years of watching with little to no hope, I now want to watch us win. I want the whole package because it's possible now, because we've come so far. I want good football and trophies. I want to keep our best players. I want to win everything. And if it means it's doable with the help of more cash - as others are doing - then great. We're doing nothing wrong or illegal, we'd be just doing what we had to do to keep up with others who have started the trend.

I think too many people on here saw the words 'City' and 'Chelsea' in the title and voted no because they don't want to be associated with those clubs. They're being romantic. But why do we question transfers? Why do we moan like bitches when Isco etc doesn't come after all? It's because we want to win matches. We want to win the league. Football has changed because of Chelsea and City. Following suit may be necessary. It's not our fault. We'd all like to have won it the 'right' way but it's so much more difficult now with the money at these clubs and the fact they pray on clubs like us. We're very close to being something special, I bet your ballbags that Poch would double everyone's wages if he could, and that he'd buy the best players available if he could. We should take advantage of that situation if it came along, not sit back and risk being left behind.

Leicester could be the last real romantic football story, premier league wise. And look what happened. They lost 2 of their best players and are now fighting relegation. If you want romantic, look in your wife's eyes while you're making love to her. Or in the mirror if you're banging it from behind. But I'd like to see success now. Doing it the way we are currently doing it would be just beautiful, but I'd like to do it by any means possible.

You do realise there are millions of fans that watch and support their teams week in week out always knowing they are never going to win anything of note. What should they do jump ship to City or Yanited? For an awful lot of people supporting a team isn't first and foremost about trophies it's about the entire experience of following that team highs and lows. For me buying the league, which is what you are suggesting is completely against what I think 'sport' is. You might disagree but for me it's nigh on cheating.

 

[nicdic]

It's quite simple, if you want to win trophies and the only way you can do so is by cash investment like other clubs are doing, then why the heck wouldn't you?

There's a fine line between romanticism and defeatism. You're basically saying to me you'd never care if we never won anything again, as long as we play nice football and don't have a cash investment, because it's 'the Spurs way'. The Spurs way is also fucking up lots of things along the way. The Spurs way includes sometimes ripping off fans with ticket prices and merchandise, along with most other clubs in the league. The Spurs way is 'sacking' Martin Jol mid game. A large section of our fans sang racist songs about Campbell and Adebayor. Some still sing about looking forward to Campbell's funeral.... My point is, we're no more or less romantic than any other club. We won the league twice by playing glorious football over 50/60 years ago and we had a decent 5 year spell over 30 years ago where we won stuff playing nice football. Apart from that, we've pretty much done fuck all.

So to answer your points, in an ideal world, we'd win it as we are and get the praise we would massively deserve from everyone. That would be romantic. Is it likely to happen without investment? I don't know.

Do you really care about values over success? You're happy to never win a trophy as long as we're run the right way. I call bullshit. If I told you now we'd never win a trophy in our lifetime but play nice stuff instead and are well run, you'd be gutted, heartbroken. What's the point of watching? Yes you may be entertained but the whole point of supporting a team is to see them try and win. Winning is the aim for everyone involved at a club. Everyone! Winning means getting trophies. After 40 years of watching with little to no hope, I now want to watch us win. I want the whole package because it's possible now, because we've come so far. I want good football and trophies. I want to keep our best players. I want to win everything. And if it means it's doable with the help of more cash - as others are doing - then great. We're doing nothing wrong or illegal, we'd be just doing what we had to do to keep up with others who have started the trend.

I think too many people on here saw the words 'City' and 'Chelsea' in the title and voted no because they don't want to be associated with those clubs. They're being romantic. But why do we question transfers? Why do we moan like bitches when Isco etc doesn't come after all? It's because we want to win matches. We want to win the league. Football has changed because of Chelsea and City. Following suit may be necessary. It's not our fault. We'd all like to have won it the 'right' way but it's so much more difficult now with the money at these clubs and the fact they pray on clubs like us. We're very close to being something special, I bet your ballbags that Poch would double everyone's wages if he could, and that he'd buy the best players available if he could. We should take advantage of that situation if it came along, not sit back and risk being left behind.

Leicester could be the last real romantic football story, premier league wise. And look what happened. They lost 2 of their best players and are now fighting relegation. If you want romantic, look in your wife's eyes while you're making love to her. Or in the mirror if you're banging it from behind. But I'd like to see success now. Doing it the way we are currently doing it would be just beautiful, but I'd like to do it by any means possible.

Nah.

And for what it's worth, Leicester wasn't romantic, it was fairytale, romantic is sustained success without selling out. That's what I want. And I'd rather mediocrity than sell out and win. Those victories would always be hollow.

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

It's quite simple, if you want to win trophies and the only way you can do so is by cash investment like other clubs are doing, then why the heck wouldn't you?

There's a fine line between romanticism and defeatism. You're basically saying to me you'd never care if we never won anything again, as long as we play nice football and don't have a cash investment, because it's 'the Spurs way'. The Spurs way is also fucking up lots of things along the way. The Spurs way includes sometimes ripping off fans with ticket prices and merchandise, along with most other clubs in the league. The Spurs way is 'sacking' Martin Jol mid game. A large section of our fans sang racist songs about Campbell and Adebayor. Some still sing about looking forward to Campbell's funeral.... My point is, we're no more or less romantic than any other club. We won the league twice by playing glorious football over 50/60 years ago and we had a decent 5 year spell over 30 years ago where we won stuff playing nice football. Apart from that, we've pretty much done fuck all.

So to answer your points, in an ideal world, we'd win it as we are and get the praise we would massively deserve from everyone. That would be romantic. Is it likely to happen without investment? I don't know.

Do you really care about values over success? You're happy to never win a trophy as long as we're run the right way. I call bullshit. If I told you now we'd never win a trophy in our lifetime but play nice stuff instead and are well run, you'd be gutted, heartbroken. What's the point of watching? Yes you may be entertained but the whole point of supporting a team is to see them try and win. Winning is the aim for everyone involved at a club. Everyone! Winning means getting trophies. After 40 years of watching with little to no hope, I now want to watch us win. I want the whole package because it's possible now, because we've come so far. I want good football and trophies. I want to keep our best players. I want to win everything. And if it means it's doable with the help of more cash - as others are doing - then great. We're doing nothing wrong or illegal, we'd be just doing what we had to do to keep up with others who have started the trend.

I think too many people on here saw the words 'City' and 'Chelsea' in the title and voted no because they don't want to be associated with those clubs. They're being romantic. But why do we question transfers? Why do we moan like bitches when Isco etc doesn't come after all? It's because we want to win matches. We want to win the league. Football has changed because of Chelsea and City. Following suit may be necessary. It's not our fault. We'd all like to have won it the 'right' way but it's so much more difficult now with the money at these clubs and the fact they pray on clubs like us. We're very close to being something special, I bet your ballbags that Poch would double everyone's wages if he could, and that he'd buy the best players available if he could. We should take advantage of that situation if it came along, not sit back and risk being left behind.

Leicester could be the last real romantic football story, premier league wise. And look what happened. They lost 2 of their best players and are now fighting relegation. If you want romantic, look in your wife's eyes while you're making love to her. Or in the mirror if you're banging it from behind. But I'd like to see success now. Doing it the way we are currently doing it would be just beautiful, but I'd like to do it by any means possible.

If anyone's being defeatist, it's you.

I believe we can wing trophies by doing things the right way. You don't.

That's the difference between us. I'd rather wait a bit longer if necessary, watch a team being built that I can be thoroughly proud of, and then when we win something worth winning I'll know it wasn't just bought off the shelf. And how much sweeter will that first league title of the Premier League age be than all of Chelsea's and Man City's muggings be?

If none of that matters to you, if you're happy to steal something just so you can pretend to yourself that you own it and deserve it, and really all you want is a trophy no matter how it's obtained, then fine, but we aren't all as defeatist and compliant as that.

It's not anything to do with being romantic, by the way. It's about football as opposed to ego. I don't feel our club is inferior in any way whatsoever to Chelsea or Man City, for whose recent mirage of success I have utter contempt, and giving in, admitting defeat and copying them would give me no satisfaction at all.

I want to beat them in a way I will never have to apologise for or explain away. And I believe we will, and soon. You don't. Grow some!

 

[Shadydan]

Nah fuk all that artificial stuff, it's all about growing your crops organically.

 

[Lilbaz]

Well, I'm a guy, but maybe you could instead buy me a new pair of tennis racquets? It wouldn't feel super weird, and I would appreciate it very much.

As long as he gets to fuck you afterwards i doubt he cares.

 

[Shadydan]

It's quite simple, if you want to win trophies and the only way you can do so is by cash investment like other clubs are doing, then why the heck wouldn't you?

There's a fine line between romanticism and defeatism. You're basically saying to me you'd never care if we never won anything again, as long as we play nice football and don't have a cash investment, because it's 'the Spurs way'. The Spurs way is also fucking up lots of things along the way. The Spurs way includes sometimes ripping off fans with ticket prices and merchandise, along with most other clubs in the league. The Spurs way is 'sacking' Martin Jol mid game. A large section of our fans sang racist songs about Campbell and Adebayor. Some still sing about looking forward to Campbell's funeral.... My point is, we're no more or less romantic than any other club. We won the league twice by playing glorious football over 50/60 years ago and we had a decent 5 year spell over 30 years ago where we won stuff playing nice football. Apart from that, we've pretty much done fuck all.

So to answer your points, in an ideal world, we'd win it as we are and get the praise we would massively deserve from everyone. That would be romantic. Is it likely to happen without investment? I don't know.

Do you really care about values over success? You're happy to never win a trophy as long as we're run the right way. I call bullshit. If I told you now we'd never win a trophy in our lifetime but play nice stuff instead and are well run, you'd be gutted, heartbroken. What's the point of watching? Yes you may be entertained but the whole point of supporting a team is to see them try and win. Winning is the aim for everyone involved at a club. Everyone! Winning means getting trophies. After 40 years of watching with little to no hope, I now want to watch us win. I want the whole package because it's possible now, because we've come so far. I want good football and trophies. I want to keep our best players. I want to win everything. And if it means it's doable with the help of more cash - as others are doing - then great. We're doing nothing wrong or illegal, we'd be just doing what we had to do to keep up with others who have started the trend.

I think too many people on here saw the words 'City' and 'Chelsea' in the title and voted no because they don't want to be associated with those clubs. They're being romantic. But why do we question transfers? Why do we moan like bitches when Isco etc doesn't come after all? It's because we want to win matches. We want to win the league. Football has changed because of Chelsea and City. Following suit may be necessary. It's not our fault. We'd all like to have won it the 'right' way but it's so much more difficult now with the money at these clubs and the fact they pray on clubs like us. We're very close to being something special, I bet your ballbags that Poch would double everyone's wages if he could, and that he'd buy the best players available if he could. We should take advantage of that situation if it came along, not sit back and risk being left behind.

Leicester could be the last real romantic football story, premier league wise. And look what happened. They lost 2 of their best players and are now fighting relegation. If you want romantic, look in your wife's eyes while you're making love to her. Or in the mirror if you're banging it from behind. But I'd like to see success now. Doing it the way we are currently doing it would be just beautiful, but I'd like to do it by any means possible.

Man Utd have never had a sugar daddy or big cash investment, their wealth has grown due to their income that they've accumulated over time, is there any reason why that model won't being us success because that's exactly what we're trying to do?

 

[GMI]

It's a completely different situation. If you've earned money by being a big club that's not even remotely the same as some dubious character from Qatar coming in and financially doping the club.

Anything City win is tainted because of it. It's like winning on a computer game by using cheat codes, doesn't really count.

Agreed. Teams like Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal have generated wealth though prolonged and consistent success. Chelsea and Man City were both relatively unsuccessful, and badly run, until brought up by Sugar Daddies..

 

[bomberH]

If anyone's being defeatist, it's you.

I believe we can wing trophies by doing things the right way. You don't.

That's the difference between us. I'd rather wait a bit longer if necessary, watch a team being built that I can be thoroughly proud of, and then when we win something worth winning I'll know it wasn't just bought off the shelf. And how much sweeter will that first league title of the Premier League age be than all of Chelsea's and Man City's muggings be?

If none of that matters to you, if you're happy to steal something just so you can pretend to yourself that you own it and deserve it, and really all you want is a trophy no matter how it's obtained, then fine, but we aren't all as defeatist and compliant as that.

It's not anything to do with being romantic, by the way. It's about football as opposed to ego. I don't feel our club is inferior in any way whatsoever to Chelsea or Man City, for whose recent mirage of success I have utter contempt, and giving in, admitting defeat and copying them would give me no satisfaction at all.

I want to beat them in a way I will never have to apologise for or explain away. And I believe we will, and soon. You don't. Grow some!

.

Steal something? Brilliant. That whole paragraph is so full of shit I can't be bothered to respond.

But it's ok because you believe 'we will, and soon'. Thank god for that.

You sound so smug, yet it's quite obvious Poch has been stopped from buying who he wants to buy because we can't afford them. You're effectively saying you don't care and he should find people within our means because that's where we are as a club and you don't want any investment. Then you'll moan like a bitch when we struggle to compete or when Kane or Eriksen goes because we can't afford to keep them.

But it's ok, it's the Spurs way.

@Trix it's not cheating. It's nowhere near cheating. I wish it was so everyone was on a level playing field. But it isn't. They got lucky and they've made the most out of it. And even if they did cheat, why should we and other teams suffer because Chelsea and City cheated? They might dominate for 10/15 years now. You're happy to continue as we are even if we never win, yet someone who could bump up our wages and could change everything is an absolute no go for you. I don't get it.

And yes of course teams like Peterborough etc know they're not gonna win the PL and fans go for the fun but a) they still want to win, it's still about winning, b) we're a big, well run club with PL title aspirations where that extra money can make that difference and c) if an oil tycoon bought Peterborough, you think they'd hate it? 99% would jump at the chance if offered.

 

[bomberH]

Man Utd have never had a sugar daddy or big cash investment, their wealth has grown due to their income that they've accumulated over time, is there any reason why that model won't being us success because that's exactly what we're trying to do?

It's asking a lot. I think I read somewhere that Utd were about £600M in debt? Or they were very recently. But yep they made their money through being the biggest club in the world, though even now they've resorted to star buys on ridiculous wages since Fergie left.

I don't think we'll ever be as big and self sufficient as them without investment. Arsenal and to a certain extent Liverpool have also done it the right way. Hopefully we can match the wages of these clubs when our stadium is finished. I'm not sure we will but we probably should be able to.

 

[talkshowhost86]

I can see the argument both ways on this one.

I think people who are being very moral about it are saying the right things, but I do wonder how strongly you'd feel about it if we were to actually win the league off a big bout of spending funded by an oil-baron. Personally I think however we did it, it would be tremendously fun to watch us win the league.

However there's no doubting in my mind that it would be even more fun to watch us do it without having to go down the route of buying the title. There's no doubt that it's easy to criticise the clubs who have just paid their way because it doesn't feel like how things should be done. As Bomber says it's not cheating, but it doesn't feel quite right either. A bit like tax avoidance versus tax evasion (which I suspect would cause a similar moral dilemma for most people given the opportunity).

I think we're well placed at the moment to give the non-tycoon model a bit of a go. The new stadium is coming, we're already doing very well and we're sitting on a load of wealthy assets that can either help the club on the playing side or financially going forwards. If after 5 years of the new stadium we're still not moving up to that next level, then you would have to question whether it could ever happen, and then I'd be wondering whether a sugar daddy was the only way to level the playing field.

Ultimately I think that teams like Chelsea, City and PSG are slowly ruining the game completely and it would feel very wrong to join that approach. However if the game is going that way generally, and we get our own person who comes in and says 'here's £1bn...go and get Messi', I cannot hand on my heart say that wouldn't excite me.

Basically...the bad guys have won

 

[nicdic]

Also worth noting that I think the days of billionaires buying PL clubs as playthings is a thing of the past.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Also worth noting that I think the days of billionaires buying PL clubs as playthings is a thing of the past.

Billionaires yes.

Countries (or countries masquerading as companies)? Maybe not so much.

Will be interesting to see what comes from the Newcastle sale (if anything).

Really good opportunity there for an ambitious group to build what should be a much more successful club. I suspect that other than from China though, there won't be much interest.

I mean ultimately we're already the 10th wealthiest club in the world. So I think you're right that in this day and age the idea of a 'sugar daddy' as we used to know it is pretty unlikely.

 

[Wellspurs]

You do realise there are millions of fans that watch and support their teams week in week out always knowing they are never going to win anything of note. What should they do jump ship to City or Yanited? For an awful lot of people supporting a team isn't first and foremost about trophies it's about the entire experience of following that team highs and lows. For me buying the league, which is what you are suggesting is completely against what I think 'sport' is. You might disagree but for me it's nigh on cheating.

Very noble but there was a time kids, when we outbid everyone to top players and that's why we have so many fans now.

 

[bomberH]

I think it's a matter of time before it happens.

Those who have voted no have absolutely no right to moan if a transfer falls through because we couldn't afford their wages. And no right to moan when we sell the likes of Kane or Eriksen because we couldn't afford to keep them or match their ambition.

And I look forward to all of your sad faces when we win the league if it happens after an investor coming in.

 

[Spurger King]

I think it's a matter of time before it happens.

Those who have voted no have absolutely no right to moan if a transfer falls through because we couldn't afford their wages. And no right to moan when we sell the likes of Kane or Eriksen because we couldn't afford to keep them or match their ambition.

And I look forward to all of your sad faces when we win the league if it happens after an investor coming in.

There seem to be some on here who think anyone voting yes just want us to blow everyone out of the water and 'cheat' our way to success. Personally I want us to have something approaching parity with Chelsea and the Sheik Mansour team, where we can keep our best players and compete for new players.

It really comes down to wanting to even things out at the very top end of the table. I'd be happy if those teams had to come down to our financial level, and even happier if there was a wage/transfer cap that meant 7-8 clubs every season had a chance of success depending upon how well built their teams were.

As that's unlikely to happen, competing on a level playing field with the big spenders is the next best thing, otherwise it's just a depressing two-team fight with the occasional gate crasher or some other also ran being catapulted ahead of us overnight.

 

[Trix]

Very noble but there was a time kids, when we outbid everyone to top players and that's why we have so many fans now.

I have no issue with Yanited massively outspending us because they have earned the right to do that. Can you not see it's very different when you are just given money to spend rather than having to earn it?