Support Group for People afraid of Dier as CM

[UpTownSpur]

What puts me off the idea is the lack of success there's been before when CBs have moved into midfield. Phil Jones is an example I can think of, but, tbf, he looks shit anywhere. Alan Smith and, for us, Paul Stewart, David Howells and Ryan Mason are examples of forward players moving in central midfield and being successful but it doesn't often seem to work when CBs do.

 

[Jules]

We could really do with a poll for this one. I would set it up if I knew how to.

 

[Indacupfortottenham]

What puts me off the idea is the lack of success there's been before when CBs have moved into midfield. Phil Jones is an example I can think of, but, tbf, he looks shit anywhere. Alan Smith and, for us, Paul Stewart, David Howells and Ryan Mason are examples of forward players moving in central midfield and being successful but it doesn't often seem to work when CBs do.

I always thought Ledley King was good as a DM, when called upon, also a fair few DM's play centre half, look at Barca with Toure, Mascarano and Bisquets (excuse spellings can't be arsed to google them!)

 

[muppetman]

After the abuse that Nabil got after his mistake I fear for any player trying to learn on the job and particularly in a situation like this where he is learning a whole new position.

I'd also be concerned that he turned down the England call up so that he could focus on being the best CB, rather than RB and now is again being asked to do a different job.

 

[mil1lion]

We can file this under.

Bale can't play left wing, he's better from deep
Rose can't play left back

I think people are far too quick to write people off when they move positions. Dier is clearly a young prospect so he's going to need time to develop regardless of position he plays. He has every chance of adapting to centre midfield than centre back.

I'm sure the idea is to play like Barca did under Pep where the centre midfielder drops between the centre backs as the full backs push forward. I think that's the thinking behind trying a centre back in that role. It's a modern adaptation of the wing-back system.

 

[npearl4spurs]

I might believe he was a midfielder more if he didn't have black cinderblock looking boots on

 

[jobdone]

I'm sure the idea is to play like Barca did under Pep where the centre midfielder drops between the centre backs as the full backs push forward. I think that's the thinking behind trying a centre back in that role. It's a modern adaptation of the wing-back system.

Didn't see the full game, but from pre-season and highlights that looks like the plan. Fullbacks pushed up beyond the halfway line with with Toby/Verts split and Dier dropping into the middle.

 

[double0]

Admittedly I was pleasantly surprised with how good Dier played in midfield. He's such a good footballer I hope he finds a position.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

i'm not happy. for a cb he's good on the ball, for a cm he's below average. we can't afford to have a player like that in our system. so he might make a few more tackles than mason, that's no good if he can't turn/move/pass under pressure or give us anything going forward. i love dier but just no, stop it poch, stop it now.

Thank fuck someone else is across this.

How the hell anyone could watch that game saturday and say Dier was great, when the cm's took such a caning last season for performances that were better at times is beyond me.

Like BG, I really like Dier as CB, on top of the qualities BG listed I think there's also a bit of leader about him. But he was a poor RB - just because he put in a couple of decent crosses from the halfway line didn't make him a good RB - and he's a poor CM

In terms of the performances/praise ratio Dier seems to have become the new Dawson maybe. People didn't seem to notice the few times he got pressures into panic passing, got dribbled round like he was a 6ft training cone and gave the ball away as recklessly as Bentaleb. They were just the major flaws, as BG says he is generally ponderous at moving the ball, very safety first.

I can't think of a less appropriate model for Pochettino's high line, hard press, swift countering model.

 

[glospur]

Thank fuck someone else is across this.

How the hell anyone could watch that game saturday and say Dier was great, when the cm's took such a caning last season for performances that were better at times is beyond me.

Like BG, I really like Dier as CB, on top of the qualities BG listed I think there's also a bit of leader about him. But he was a poor RB - just because he put in a couple of decent crosses from the halfway line didn't make him a good RB - and he's a poor CB.

In terms of the performances/praise ratio Dier seems to have become the new Dawson maybe. People didn't seem to notice the few times he got pressures into panic passing, got dribbled round like he was a 6ft training cone and gave the ball away as recklessly as Bentaleb. They were just the major flaws, as BG says he is generally ponderous at moving the ball, very safety first.

I can't think of a less appropriate model for Pochettino's high line, swift countering model.

He wasn't great, but he was good and demonstrated a fledgling ability to play in that role, a role we were yearning for last season. With a bit more time there, he could really flourish as a defensively minded CM but he needs time in the position and patience from the fans. I see it differently from you, he tackled well, broke up play from the likes of Memphis and Mata coming inside well and halted them a couple of times when they threatened to counter. In that more defensively minded role I don't expect him to be Modric with his passing, and neither should anyone else. If he can win the ball then lay it off to the better passers of the football then that's fine until he develops a little more confidence and awareness and can start playing a more expansive passing game himself. People have already acknowledged that he was caught on it a couple of times due to a lack of experience and awareness but not from a lack of a fundamental ability needed to play the position, they are talents that will be developed over time. Yet those people, unlike you, also acknowledge his tackling ability and the benefits he bought to CM, attributes we were sorely missing last season.

 

[TheHoddleWaddle]

Bit early to make a full judgement on the lad as a dm. However, from what I did see, he just didn't seem to suit the pressing formula poch is trying to implement. He is a better cb, at this moment in time, if the dm is such a big problem, I'd swap him over with Toby A as an interrim solution. Especially considering the passing ability of the latter, which is more suited to a midfield press.

That said, it is not something I would like to see long term. Jan v and Toby A have the hall marks of an exceptional pairing. Dier is a superb understudy capable of filling in as and when needed.

If he is going to be tried at dm for the long term, cut him a little slack. He could come good despite early signs he's not entirely suitable.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Why the hell Veljkovic wasn't deemed worth a try in this role is a mystery. He reads the game well, is better at pressing, more mobile than Dier, a better user of the ball and has played probably a hundred games with Bentaleb.

 

[TheHoddleWaddle]

Because BC, i still dont think Poch knows what to do with his squad. Not entirely. Hence the occasional odd selection, or player being overlooked.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

Judging by the comments following the squad announcement in the match-day thread, I think we are going to need to hold another meeting this week.


Relax. We got this.

 

[DJS]

Would like to see Milos Veljkovic and Harry Winks getting opportunities too.

 

[Strikeb4ck]

Thought he did very well again there. The second CM is the bigger concern.

Really just feel we are so much more suited to playing 3CMs than this 4231 crap.

 

[cookiemonster]

I know of at least one person that is absolutely desperate for this to work

The little bald midget ...why ? because it will save him at least 10m that will go towards his wage increment

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

So, how is the group doing? Does anyone feel the need to share any lingering doubts? Remember, the group is here for you if you have a relapse.

 

[NEVILLEB]

Superb today

Great range of passing.
Tracked back and covered the back 4.
Provided some needed aggression and leadership.

I'm converted.

 

[Kiedis]

Great performance today, and he's growing with every game. He offers the kind of defensive smartness that Bentaleb and Mason just doesn't.

Just that little instance in the first half where he deliberately let Kone stay unmarked just so Lukaku thinks he can make a simple pass, just to step in and intercept the pass was a joy to watch.