Team v Monaco

[carpediem991]

It's amazing how many fitness and conditioning experts you find in these threads

It is not all about fitness only but there are some points.

1) Very often smaller teams can surprise in the league and challenge for top 4 but only up to January when they looked a bit knackered

2) Our best tactics are the high energy pressing. We run more than our opponents in most of the games. I trust our fitness department but still our players are no machines

3) Busy festive period ahead of us

4) I don't want to lose a key player because of a nasty challenge in a more or less meaningless game.

5) Other players in the squad should get a run out. It is not that they are a totally useless bunch like in the last years. Wimmer looked solid in pre season and we paid more than 10m for NJie, who hasn't started a game for us yet. Verts is close to being suspended for a league game. Wimmer probably is a bit rusty and could do with some minutes. Then there are young players like Carroll, Winks and Onomah. We are all not too sure what they can do at this point so give them a game to see if they can play a bigger part this season. They are probably more up to it than lots of other regulars

6) Our close to best eleven has not guarantueed us an easy ride through europe so far.

The only reason to finish the group first is that your second game is at home which is the biggest advantage we can get. Our away record in Europe is poor. But I'd trust a mixed up team to get a draw. You don't need to swap everything. Probably a compromise: Lloris - Trips, Toby, Wimmer, Davies - Alli, Bentaleb - Son, Lamela, Onomah - Clinton.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

Exactly. Most fitness is mental, and if you are constantly resting them telling they are tired they will believe it

Thanks for your expert insight

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

It is not all about fitness only but there are some points.

1) Very often smaller teams can surprise in the league and challenge for top 4 but only up to January when they looked a bit knackered

2) Our best tactics are the high energy pressing. We run more than our opponents in most of the games. I trust our fitness department but still our players are no machines

3) Busy festive period ahead of us

4) I don't want to lose a key player because of a nasty challenge in a more or less meaningless game.

5) Other players in the squad should get a run out. It is not that they are a totally useless bunch like in the last years. Wimmer looked solid in pre season and we paid more than 10m for NJie, who hasn't started a game for us yet. Verts is close to being suspended for a league game. Wimmer probably is a bit rusty and could do with some minutes. Then there are young players like Carroll, Winks and Onomah. We are all not too sure what they can do at this point so give them a game to see if they can play a bigger part this season. They are probably more up to it than lots of other regulars

6) Our close to best eleven has not guarantueed us an easy ride through europe so far.

The only reason to finish the group first is that your second game is at home which is the biggest advantage we can get. Our away record in Europe is poor. But I'd trust a mixed up team to get a draw. You don't need to swap everything. Probably a compromise: Lloris - Trips, Toby, Wimmer, Davies - Alli, Bentaleb - Son, Lamela, Onomah - Clinton.

Well, I would hope with the amount of information available from experts who's job it is to provide Poch with advice on how to rotate the squad and keep everyone in the right condition for the rest of the season he will make the right call.

I trust his ability to make that call than a few armchair 'experts' in here.

 

[lukespurs7]

Must not play:
One of Toby/jan
Walker
Rose
Dier
Dembele
Ali
Kane

Should play:
Vorm
Davies
Trippier
Wimmer
Carrol
Bentaleb
Pamela
Onomah
N'jie

 

[carpediem991]

Well, I would hope with the amount of information available from experts who's job it is to provide Poch with advice on how to rotate the squad and keep everyone in the right condition for the rest of the season he will make the right call.

I trust his ability to make that call than a few armchair 'experts' in here.

It is what these forums are all about. We could start these threads every week with the words: "Poch & his mates know what to do". It is not that coaches get it right everytime. It is good that we finally can say that we trust them in the end. But I think there are some valid points who make a discussion about rotation valid. It would be wrong to say it is bad/horrible to play Kane/Dier, but at least it is questionable in my eyes.

 

[nightgoat]

Because people constantly want us to play 11 different players in Europa. There is a big difference in first and second, your path simply becomes harder. Why should we play a very weak team if we want to win the cup?

The draw is only seeded for one round. After that we could play anyone.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

I'll support whoever Poch puts out there, but I expect to see a fairly strong side.

A big part of football is mental - and putting out a "weakened" team sets the wrong mentality from the start.

This game is still important for several reasons - the psychological boost of winning a tough group (its not a trophy, but when you set the goal of winning your group - you finish the job), the coefficient points for winning are important to both Spurs and England (It keeps Spurs in a higher group when it comes to seedings, and it goes towards helping England keep the 4th CL spot), continuing to build squad continuity (I think a big reason for our success this year is that most of the lads have played more games together - there is better team chemistry, and easier for the squad to get into a good rhythm.

Having said that - I think we can split the difference a little bit in this game by introducing players like Bentaleb and Chadli into the squad. Both are 1st-team calibre players.

Kane
Chadli Alli Son
Bentaleb Dier
Davies Wimmer Alderweireld Trippier
Lloris

Vorm, Walker, Vertonghen, Carroll, Winks, Onomah, Clinton​

 

[Swalien]

we paid more than 10m for NJie, who hasn't started a game for us yet.

Njie started for us away against Anderlecht. I agree he needs more starts, thought Id prefer to see him wide as the dynamic of him upfront instead of Kane (against Anderlecht) didnt seem to work imo. I like him when he is deeper and has some space to run into and take a defender on, his work rate has been good recently too. Id prefer to see Son upfront (if we do rest Kane) and hopefully a youth on the bench, I dont know who maybe Kaziah Sterling? Looking forward to seeing Wimmer get more minutes, he looked good when he has played.

 

[millsey]

Certainly
Don't think either bentaleb or chadli will start. Son and njie should

 

[Mr Pink]

't

Well, I would hope with the amount of information available from experts who's job it is to provide Poch with advice on how to rotate the squad and keep everyone in the right condition for the rest of the season he will make the right call.

I trust his ability to make that call than a few armchair 'experts' in here.

Hold on a minute mate, didn't Southampton tail off in the second half of the season with Poch there?

I'm one of Poch's biggest fans on here and absolutely delighted with how we're progressing under him but managing the squad, and avoiding burn out, is something he could do a little better IMO.

What's with these sarcastic remarks about so called experts on here? Of course we aren't privy to the precise conditioning of the players but I think these are legitimate observations/concerns.

I'm sure Poch has his reasoning and I trust his judgement but that doesn't mean we can't point out some of these things and discuss them, its a forum ffs.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

Hold on a minute mate, didn't Southampton tail off in the second half of the season with Poch there?

I'm one of Poch's biggest fans on here and absolutely delighted with how we're progressing under him but managing the squad, and avoiding burn out, is something he could do a little better IMO.

What's with these sarcastic remarks about so called experts on here? Of course we aren't privy to the precise conditioning of the players but I think these are legitimate observations/concerns.

I'm sure Poch has is reasoning and I trust his judgement but that doesn't mean we can point out some of these things out and discuss them, its a forum ffs.

As far as I can tell Southampton tailed off due to injuries and suspensions to key personnel rather than fatigue and tiredness.

People are welcome to discuss but with none of us being fitness and conditioning experts it is all just pure speculation as far as i'm concerned. It is one area where literally no one really has a clue, so I would prefer to trust in Poch. Player selection, formations, tactics are much more visible and viable for discussion imo.

 

[nicdic]

't

Hold on a minute mate, didn't Southampton tail off in the second half of the season with Poch there?

I'm one of Poch's biggest fans on here and absolutely delighted with how we're progressing under him but managing the squad, and avoiding burn out, is something he could do a little better IMO.

What's with these sarcastic remarks about so called experts on here? Of course we aren't privy to the precise conditioning of the players but I think these are legitimate observations/concerns.

I'm sure Poch has his reasoning and I trust his judgement but that doesn't mean we can't point out some of these things and discuss them, its a forum ffs.

We didn't tail off last season, at least not in regard to the points we picked up.

 

[Mr Pink]

As far as I can tell Southampton tailed off due to injuries and suspensions to key personnel rather than fatigue and tiredness.

People are welcome to discuss but with none of us being fitness and conditioning experts it is all just pure speculation as far as i'm concerned. It is one area where literally no one really has a clue, so I would prefer to trust in Poch. Player selection, formations, tactics are much more visible and viable for discussion imo.

Don't really agree. None of us are experts in tactics or coaching either - unless people on here have their badges?

Might as well just say I trust Poch and close the forum.

For me its obvious that player fatigue can be a significant factor at times and how the squad is managed in light of this is a crucial but subjective process.

 

[Mr Pink]

We didn't tail off last season, at least not in regard to the points we picked up.

No we didn't, but the difference there is that the squad was used to its fullest - the weeding out process ensured that. Adebayor, Capoue, Paulinho and Kaboul et al all featured heavily in the first three months.

Kane didn't really come into the reckoning in terms of starting either until November IIRC.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

Don't really agree. None of us are experts in formations, tactics or coaching either - unless people on here have their badges?

Might as well just say I trust Poch and close the forum.

For me its obvious that player fatigue can be a significant factor at time and how the squad is managed in light of this is a crucial but sibject

It's not really that - with tactics, formations etc.. it is easier to analyse why the manager has made decisions. We can understand how based on players skillsets, philosophy, opposition etc.. why Poch will pick players and have our discussions based on this.

Fitness and conditioning is not visible information - we don't know for example if Kyle Walker can only play once a week due to injuries he's had, or if Kane can play 3 times a week without it affecting his fitness. Then there is mental fatigue - which might effect some players more than others - but if we are not privvy to psychological test results from the players - then it is incredibly difficult to discuss. On top of this Poch also needs to manage and rotate the squad to keep everyone motivated and hungry. Again without knowing the different personalities within the squad it is hard for us to judge how this affects his match day selections.

So, I understand this is a forum and everyone wants to discuss everything but personally unless I have good understanding of the topic I prefer to stay out of it rather than make wild guesses based on extremely limited information.

 

[Pimp_Spur]

i would go with:

Vorm
Tripier
Wimmer
Fazio
Davies
Bentaleb
Carroll
Onomah
Townsend / Chadli
Son
Njie

Wimmer is an absolute must to start tonight as SuperJan is one yellow card away from a suspension and therefore is very likely to pick that up in our busy xmas schedule so Wimmer needs game time to step into his shoes when he eventually gets the ban.

 

[Mr Pink]

It's not really that - with tactics, formations etc.. it is easier to analyse why the manager has made decisions. We can understand how based on players skillsets, philosophy, opposition etc.. why Poch will pick players and have our discussions based on this.

Fitness and conditioning is not visible information - we don't know for example if Kyle Walker can only play once a week due to injuries he's had, or if Kane can play 3 times a week without it affecting his fitness. Then there is mental fatigue - which might effect some players more than others - but if we are not privvy to psychological test results from the players - then it is incredibly difficult to discuss. On top of this Poch also needs to manage and rotate the squad to keep everyone motivated and hungry. Again without knowing the different personalities within the squad it is hard for us to judge how this affects his match day selections.

So, I understand this is a forum and everyone wants to discuss everything but personally unless I have good understanding of the topic I prefer to stay out if rather than make wild guesses based on extremely limited information.

I understand that, but from a general point of view if you're playing a high intensity style and playing the same team pretty much every week over the course of a season, or most of it, there will probably be some sort of detrimental affect. Yes we don't know the extent of such because we aren't privy to the specifics but I think its reasonable to discuss such issues - and we can tell in some cases, when we see a tired performance etc after a consecutive amount of games.

And its not really wild guessing either, Pochettino conceded before he even took this job that the Europa League had an affect - his comments are well documented. Obviously coming here he had to alter his stance on that to match our ambition.

Personally I think Poch is all too aware of the affects but is under pressure to deliver on multiple levels here.

 

[dagraham]

So we need to be "fitness experts" now to know if Kane will end up fatigued if he plays every game this season without a break in the previous close season.

OK

 

[Spursidol]

As far as I can tell Southampton tailed off due to injuries and suspensions to key personnel rather than fatigue and tiredness.

People are welcome to discuss but with none of us being fitness and conditioning experts it is all just pure speculation as far as i'm concerned. It is one area where literally no one really has a clue, so I would prefer to trust in Poch. Player selection, formations, tactics are much more visible and viable for discussion imo.

Thank you. If you rotate the team it not only rests players but also ensures that 'squad' players are match fitr enough to start when injuries/suspensions to key players happen - as they will.

You've just agreed where Poch went wrong with Southampton (although admitedly they have a weaker in depth squad than Spurs do) and where everyone has been arguing where Poch needs to do better at Spurs with a deeper squad.

Welcome aboard the constructive discussion of where Poch needs to show improvement over his Southampton team selection

 

[carpediem991]

So in the end close to the team I wanted to see so fair play to Poch. But we could have avoided all potential problems with Eric...