Team vs Villa

[DaSpurs]

I know consensus is Kane replaces Chadli and Eriksen moves to the left but I think Chadli has been much better than Eriksen this season and deserves his place.

I honestly wouldn't be upset were it to happen. Dropped from club first team and criticized by national coach would be a major kick to the ass to get his shit together.

He has got to get more fire in his game if he wants to even improve for a club at our level, let alone go to Barcelona or whatever his proclaimed "plan" lies.

 

[only1waddle]

Lloris
Naughton Dier Vertonghen Rose
Capoue Stambouli Mason
Lamela Soldado Kane


​

 

[Mr Pink]

Lloris
Naughton
Kaboul
Verts
Rose
Stambouli
Mason
Lamela
Kane
Chadli
Soldado

I know consensus is Kane replaces Chadli and Eriksen moves to the left but I think Chadli has been much better than Eriksen this season and deserves his place.

That wouldn't bother me one bit if Chadli stayed in. I still like the look of that team. In fact it might actually be a bit tougher and better balanced for it,

I just want to see Kane and Soldado in.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Want:

Lloris

Naughton Dier Vertonghen Rose

Mason Capoue Bentaleb

Lamela Soldado Eriksen​

Want, but sticking to Pochettino's 4231:

Lloris

Naughton Dier Vertonghen Rose

Capoue Mason

Lamela Eriksen Chadli

Soldado
​

Reckon will get:

Lloris

Naughton Kaboul Vertonghen Rose

Capoue Mason

Lamela Eriksen Chadli

Adebayor​

 

[eddiebailey]

It's clear though that the number of goals we're conceding isn't just because of the defence. Mason and Capoue clearly aren't offering the cover that is needed so something needs to be done to sort that out.

You say that the days of two destroyers in midfield are gone, and maybe that's true, but we've been repeatedly outnumbered in midfield this season so something has to change in that area.

I'm not saying that Mason would become part of the attacking unit, and in fact if Capoue gets his act together he could do the athletic player role with Mason and Stambouli sitting.

We just can't continue to be outnumbered/outmuscled in midfield and whilst I don't think Capoue and Mason have played badly individually, it clearly isn't working particularly successfully at the moment.

It's all a moot point though because I can't see Poch switching from his 4-2-3-1 formation anytime soon.

It is difficult for the centre midfield to prevent balls being pumped over the top of the defence, which is where most of our problems spring from.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I've actually been rather impressed with Mason's defending given his size. He's not a cracking tackler, but he gets stuck in surprisingly well, and is also very good at reading passes in behind the fullbacks. In fact, Mason actually has a better successful tackling record than even Capoue. Mason's success rate is 45%, while Capoue's is just below him at 41.6%.

Also, it cannot be stressed enough how vital Mason's passing in a deep position is. Yes it isn't perfect now, but nor is the whole system. But we desperately need that passing from deep to become more efficient at getting better at transitional play, and opening up better lanes for our inverted offense. The days of two destroyers sitting deep in the Prem are over, you have to have an athletic player to push the opposition back with how quick the game has now become.

But Capoue still makes more tackles per game - just (2.9 to 2.8). And makes nearly double to interceptions (2.9 to 1.8) that Mason does.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Want:

Lloris

Naughton Dier Vertonghen Rose

Mason Capoue Bentaleb

Lamela Soldado Eriksen​

Want, but sticking to Pochettino's 4231:

Lloris

Naughton Dier Vertonghen Rose

Capoue Mason

Lamela Eriksen Chadli

Soldado
​

Reckon will get:

Lloris

Naughton Kaboul Vertonghen Rose

Capoue Mason

Lamela Eriksen Chadli

Adebayor​

Bentaleb's injured.

 

[DaSpurs]

But Capoue still makes more tackles per game - just (2.9 to 2.8). And makes nearly double to interceptions (2.9 to 1.8) that Mason does.

Right, but the point is not to suggest Mason is a better defender than Capoue, but rather that I think some are mistaking Mason for a "sacrifice" in defense due to an illusion based on his size. Given his track record in tackling, the fact he's even putting in the work making interceptions from the No 8 slot, and the fact he's our single only central midfielder capable of pushing the opposition back with transitional passing, I would argue he's in truth a positive in defense rather than a negative.

On the surface, one would assume Dembele and Capoue would be a stronger defensive midfield pairing. But it's not, as no one takes designated responsibility to shield the back line (that and Dembele is poor at catching opponents to even make tackles). Also, not one of them provides that essential forward passing that prevents the opposition from enforcing their gameplan.

 

[worcestersauce]

Personally, on the whole, after giving it a lot of thought, with great consideration, taking all the evidence into account, pro's and con's, recent form of both sides and weather conditions I can definitively declare my conclusion that we should, barring unforseen circumstances, play a team vs Villa.
Who should be in that team mind you, I no longer have any bloody idea, all I can offer is someone to defend, someone to score and some players capable of linking the two, how hard can that be?
I'll work on it.

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

But Capoue still makes more tackles per game - just (2.9 to 2.8). And makes nearly double to interceptions (2.9 to 1.8) that Mason does.

I don't really care what the stats say, Capoue has been pretty average for quite a long period now. There is a footballer there for sure, but something just isn't clicking.

 

[SpursSince1980]

It's time for The Pooch to show that he can be flexible. I would love to see him go with a 433 in this one:

Lloris

Naughton
Vertonghen
Dier
Rose

Strambouli
Dembele
Mason

Erickson
Soldado
Lamela

 

[whitechina]

Want:

Lloris

Naughton Dier Vertonghen Rose

Mason Capoue Bentaleb

Lamela Soldado Eriksen​

Want, but sticking to Pochettino's 4231:

Lloris​

​

Naughton Dier Vertonghen Rose​

​

Capoue Mason​

​

Lamela Eriksen Chadli​

​

Soldado
​

Reckon will get:

Lloris

Naughton Kaboul Vertonghen Rose

Capoue Mason

Lamela Eriksen Chadli

Adebayor​

I reckon (and hope) this weekend Ade will be dropped so the highlighted one I think will start with Kane making an entrance at some point

 

[SpursManChris]

Lloris​

Naughton Dier Vertonghen Rose​

Mason Paulinho​

Lamela Eriksen Chadli​

Soldado
(Even though we all know it will definitely, 100%, without one single shadow of a doubt,
it's going to be the one, the ONLY,
Emmanuelle Adebayor! (unfortunately) )​

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I don't really care what the stats say, Capoue has been pretty average for quite a long period now. There is a footballer there for sure, but something just isn't clicking.

I disagree, I think before Mason came in he was probably our best/consistent player - go read through the ratings threads - but Mason's positional indiscipline (I know the tactical theory behind having him getting more forward) is doubling Capoue's work load defensively and pulling him about. Hard to look great in those circumstances and we used to see exactly the same frequently in Redknapp's 442 days with CM's like Parker and Sandro having to run around like nana's just to break even.

This is what Pochettino has to solve. I like Mason and the idea of what he brings, but he plainly at the moment isn't bringing enough of the incisive creative stuff to pay off the defensive and positional compromise he's inflicting on us.

This is why I personally like Bentaleb, and thought he was underrated. He did occasionally go to sleep on a runner, but he was a diligent player with better positional discipline than Mason, saw more ball and actually played incisive passes too (such as Liverpool - he also averages more key passes a game than both Mason and Capoue).

As I say, Mason is more inclined to get into advanced positions, and I can understand the appeal to Pochettino of that, but you have to accept the pressure that then puts on Capoue as the lone CM left holding the fort. Either that or Pochettino needs to get him moving around the pitch like MS at Soton so as to minimise the compromise.

People used to bitch continually about Parker, and eventually Sandro under exactly the same circumstances. It's why for example, ManC have been playing the to Fern's sometimes. Even Yaya causes a trade off.

 

[cliff jones]

Bet Benteke will score.

Just heard Pat Nevin say Villa haven't scored for 10 hours in the prem. Oh ffs...

Hugo
Naughton
Rose
Verts
Dawzio
Dembele
Mason
Lamela
Kane
Eriksen
Soldado

Oh and Wenger said they're still in the title race. So I think we are too.

 

[cliff jones]

I don't really care what the stats say, Capoue has been pretty average for quite a long period now. There is a footballer there for sure, but something just isn't clicking.

Stats are misleading, he can't actually tackle, and whilst he can pass he's often doing it with no pressure on the ball. Don't agree Mason playing box to box makes his job harder. He reminds me of good ole Carlton...

 

[philip]

I reckon a diamond would work best.

Capoue holding
Mason and Dembele passing
Lamela in the hole
Soldado and Kane up front

 

[only1waddle]

I disagree, I think before Mason came in he was probably our best/consistent player - go read through the ratings threads - but Mason's positional indiscipline (I know the tactical theory behind having him getting more forward) is doubling Capoue's work load defensively and pulling him about. Hard to look great in those circumstances and we used to see exactly the same frequently in Redknapp's 442 days with CM's like Parker and Sandro having to run around like nana's just to break even.

This is what Pochettino has to solve. I like Mason and the idea of what he brings, but he plainly at the moment isn't bringing enough of the incisive creative stuff to pay off the defensive and positional compromise he's inflicting on us.

This is why I personally like Bentaleb, and thought he was underrated. He did occasionally go to sleep on a runner, but he was a diligent player with better positional discipline than Mason, saw more ball and actually played incisive passes too (such as Liverpool - he also averages more key passes a game than both Mason and Capoue).

As I say, Mason is more inclined to get into advanced positions, and I can understand the appeal to Pochettino of that, but you have to accept the pressure that then puts on Capoue as the lone CM left holding the fort. Either that or Pochettino needs to get him moving around the pitch like MS at Soton so as to minimise the compromise.

People used to bitch continually about Parker, and eventually Sandro under exactly the same circumstances. It's why for example, ManC have been playing the to Fern's sometimes. Even Yaya causes a trade off.

I don't think it can all be heaped at Mason's door, were just not quite up to speed as a collective yet, i believe mainly due to the freedom Poch has given the AM's, i see quite a disconnect between the holding two and the attacking 3.

 

[DaSpurs]

I disagree, I think before Mason came in he was probably our best/consistent player - go read through the ratings threads - but Mason's positional indiscipline (I know the tactical theory behind having him getting more forward) is doubling Capoue's work load defensively and pulling him about. Hard to look great in those circumstances and we used to see exactly the same frequently in Redknapp's 442 days with CM's like Parker and Sandro having to run around like nana's just to break even.

This is what Pochettino has to solve. I like Mason and the idea of what he brings, but he plainly at the moment isn't bringing enough of the incisive creative stuff to pay off the defensive and positional compromise he's inflicting on us.

This is why I personally like Bentaleb, and thought he was underrated. He did occasionally go to sleep on a runner, but he was a diligent player with better positional discipline than Mason, saw more ball and actually played incisive passes too (such as Liverpool - he also averages more key passes a game than both Mason and Capoue).

As I say, Mason is more inclined to get into advanced positions, and I can understand the appeal to Pochettino of that, but you have to accept the pressure that then puts on Capoue as the lone CM left holding the fort. Either that or Pochettino needs to get him moving around the pitch like MS at Soton so as to minimise the compromise.

People used to bitch continually about Parker, and eventually Sandro under exactly the same circumstances. It's why for example, ManC have been playing the to Fern's sometimes. Even Yaya causes a trade off.

Interesting points here, and you present your case well.

I think it's still early days though for the comparison of Mason vs Bentaleb. You also have to take into consideration for statistic analysis, especially in the offensive category (such as key passes and chances created), that Mason's sample size includes at Arsenal, at Man City, home to the team now currently 2nd in the table, and a surprise loss to Newcastle. Point is, these were tough matches for us to work on improvement from a team perspective. As has been pointed out, because we've allowed those teams to come at us in those matches, there are not consistent targets for a new player tasked with the No 8 role.

Bentaleb and Capoue again may be more sound defensively, but as we saw during the Liverpool game a couple months ago it doesn't matter if they're being run around. All that positional discipline can equate to nothing if they can't even catch the very players they're assigned to prevent. There is just not enough pace in that midfield to combat the modern technical sides, nor is there enough transitional play away (which Poch himself commented on). Bentaleb does make the occasional incisive pass, but he is not the type to pick up the ball and drive the opposition back. He's not quick, he's not aggressive enough, and isn't consistent enough with forward passes.

On even just a basic level, I don't see Mason's movements forward causing that much trouble for Capoue anyway. I think what's caused him more trouble if anything, including in that Liverpool game, has been our instability at right back. He spends a lot of time in that pocket on the right when Dier's playing, and often in awkward situations.

 

[double0]

Want.

Lloris(c)

Naughton
Chiriches
Fazio
Rose

Mason
Capoue

Lamela
Eriksen
Chadli

Kane


Most likely.

Lloris

Dier
Kaboul
Vertonghen
Rose

Mason
Capoue

Lamela
Eriksen
Chadli

Adebayor.