Team Whispers: Who should Spurs sign in January?

[@Bobby__Lucky]

@Bus-Conductor

We clearly played a 532 against Liverpool and against BVB at home and also away and also the Madrid games. I think in a guide sense we did against Man U away also. There was a definite line of 5, which differs from the high set wing backs, with a 3 in midfield ahead with clear instruction to transition quickly and directly on the break. I think there was a thread on here discussing the evolution of pochs tactics and he was applauded for it.

Regardless we need more quality options. Right now id drop Alli for Zaha, but really we need options for different opposition tactics and qualities. The mindset of a 11 is not suffice for today's game.

With regard Nkoudo, I find your suggestion ridiculous. Nkoudo and Zaha are clearly not the same level of player, why not compare Kane with Connor wickham while your at it. Zaha is inspiring a team and is there talisman, Nkoudo has yet to start a prem game. Zaha is flying and George is trying to get the attention to get on the subs bench unsuccessfully. You write some good stuff BC, but i really fail to see your angle here at all, really I find it odd you would even compare the 2.

Eriksen and Alli need competition and the club needs variation in personnel and tactics. If we are to keep up our trajectory we need to improve, Zaha is a viable option. Even now in the ratings thread people are all over how refreshing it is that Lamela was quick and insisive and transitioned quickly. Options. Options. Options. To keep the opposition guessing we need to be unpredictable, I think the team needs freshening up drastically and right now one of our issues is we are predictable and I'd go as a far as stale. It seems our current batch is on the arc of peaking or has peaked or is in the cusp of the 2.

Someone with pace and trickery and direct run at defenders attitude is just what we need right now. Considering our need for English trained players within our squad. Zaha is miles ahead of any option out there right now.

 

[@Bobby__Lucky]

There were links to Andre Gomes and Denis Suarez, do you mean one of those two?

Andre Gomes is the man. My memory is like a Sive. Thank you.

 

[danielneeds]

The thing you also have to ask is, what type of player does Poch even want? For years now we as fans or some of us have wanted the typical 'pacy winger' type player. Poch didn't seem to greatly favour Townsend when he was with us and nor did he with Lennon, so he sold our two quickest attacking players. We'd bought N'Jie and N'Koudou who both seem like fairly limited players but who had/have also not been given the greatest of chances, for whatever reason.

I for one would rather put money on us not getting a quick winger in January as opposed to getting one.

I do wonder how much Pochettino even sees it as a requirement.

It's pretty clear he wants a quick player who is capable of playing out wide and beating players and transitioning the ball, but also one who had the physicality and strength to play as a more orthodox forward - Bale, Mane, Zaha. Quick, powerful players.

 

[ajspurs]

It's pretty clear he wants a quick player who is capable of playing out wide and beating players and transitioning the ball, but also one who had the physicality and strength to play as a more orthodox forward - Bale, Mane, Zaha. Quick, powerful players.

Not outrightly disagreeing, but what makes it clear? We've had multiple windows over the last few years to bring in such a player and I'm not sure two young and untested prospects from the French league greatly reflect a desire or necessity for that type.

 

[For the love of Spurs]

Not outrightly disagreeing, but what makes it clear? We've had multiple windows over the last few years to bring in such a player and I'm not sure two young and untested prospects from the French league greatly reflect a desire or necessity for that type.

Well we have bought 2 which suggest we do want them, the problem is more these type of players such as Hazard, Sane and to a lesser extent Zaha are normally very expensive.

As a team the lack of explosive players does make us somewhat predictable. ITK during the summer was saying we where going hard after Keita Blade and did want Zaha before he signed a new deal.

 

[danielneeds]

Not outrightly disagreeing, but what makes it clear? We've had multiple windows over the last few years to bring in such a player and I'm not sure two young and untested prospects from the French league greatly reflect a desire or necessity for that type.

Well it's clear that Poch wanted Mane and Zaha as we bid for both. Also the fact that he often prefers the maximum number of powerful players in his side. And the fact he's mostly ignore smaller wingers like Njie and Nkoudou.

It's basically that he doesn't want a winger per say. He wants a player who can go out there and beat people, but one who's a more all round forward.

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

the likes of Sane and Mane cost not much more than what we spent on Sissoko. I would question how hard we've really tried to bring in this sort of player. the midfielders and attackers we have brought in over the last couple of seasons (Wanyama, Sissoko, Janssen, Llorente) appear to suggest we've prioritised height and size rather than pace and skill, and the likes of N'Koudou and N'Jie appear to have been no more than speculative punts.

 

[Hoddle&Waddle]

I don’t think he’s anywhere near as effective against packed bus parked numbers as he is when he can scare an isolated defender shitless. And his end product, though improving lately, is still lacking composure.

I think players like him excite people but if he had a brain to go with his physical skill set he’d be at a much better club than Palace now. He’s 25/6, not 18.

I dont think anyone is saying he's the complete player, if he was we couldnt afford him.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

I dont think anyone is saying he's the complete player, if he was we couldnt afford him.

I doubt we can truely afford him now considering the price tag Palace probably (if indeed they do) have on him.

 

[matthew.absurdum]

@Bus-Conductor

We clearly played a 532 against Liverpool and against BVB at home and also away and also the Madrid games. I think in a guide sense we did against Man U away also. There was a definite line of 5, which differs from the high set wing backs, with a 3 in midfield ahead with clear instruction to transition quickly and directly on the break. I think there was a thread on here discussing the evolution of pochs tactics and he was applauded for it.

Regardless we need more quality options. Right now id drop Alli for Zaha, but really we need options for different opposition tactics and qualities. The mindset of a 11 is not suffice for today's game.

With regard Nkoudo, I find your suggestion ridiculous. Nkoudo and Zaha are clearly not the same level of player, why not compare Kane with Connor wickham while your at it. Zaha is inspiring a team and is there talisman, Nkoudo has yet to start a prem game. Zaha is flying and George is trying to get the attention to get on the subs bench unsuccessfully. You write some good stuff BC, but i really fail to see your angle here at all, really I find it odd you would even compare the 2.

Eriksen and Alli need competition and the club needs variation in personnel and tactics. If we are to keep up our trajectory we need to improve, Zaha is a viable option. Even now in the ratings thread people are all over how refreshing it is that Lamela was quick and insisive and transitioned quickly. Options. Options. Options. To keep the opposition guessing we need to be unpredictable, I think the team needs freshening up drastically and right now one of our issues is we are predictable and I'd go as a far as stale. It seems our current batch is on the arc of peaking or has peaked or is in the cusp of the 2.

Someone with pace and trickery and direct run at defenders attitude is just what we need right now. Considering our need for English trained players within our squad. Zaha is miles ahead of any option out there right now.

BC thought that Lesniak could do what Wanyama could offer (now he thinks that Lesniak [or even Oduwa?] could do what Sissoko could offer). It is not surprisingly that he thinks that Zaha is not miles better than Nkoudou

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

We have played a defined counter attacking game in one league game in three seasons. I'll give you twice if you include Arsenal away two seasons ago, but I'm not sure that was deliberate.

If you think we have, and that Zaha would be suited to this, why has Poch not tried doing it with Nkoudou, who was bought to do exactly the same thing ? Not one league start. I can't even remember Poch chucking Nkoudou into a game where we are sitting on a 2 or 3 goal lead and shelling and countering. Why has Poch not used Sissoko this way, this is exactly how he's been used for most of his career, as a wide forward or wide AM in counter attacking formats, running directly at FB's.

This whole argument for a player like "Zaha" just seems very flawed to me. It's like Pochettino is watching sides like Liverpool that don't play the same way he does and wanting to transplant the type of players that make then the way they are into the way he makes us, which is different.

90% of our games are heavily possession based games played against deep block teams. He would have been much better off integrating someone like Edwards, who can dribble in tight spaces and then get his head up and play intricate little passes, do something composed.

Zaha can dribble, but he can't stretch his legs and use his pace in games like that, he's not running at isolated defenders on the counter in games like that.

If we were going to regularly play proper counter attacking football ourselves then OK, I can see some sense in someone like Zaha, or if we want to bring someone like him on in games where we are shelling a lead and countering, but do we spend what ? 40-50m on Zaha to sit him on the bench for those circumstances, and then if we do, will he be his best self sitting on the bench most weeks and getting 10-20 minutes of football?

And even if we are going to start Zaha, who do you drop? Alli ? Eriksen ? Son ? They are all a shitload more productive than Zaha even in bare goal/assists, let alone the other stuff they do.

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It's just very complicated. I understand the idea of having a player like Zaha as "an option", something different, but are we actually going to play the style of football that suits him most weeks ? how happy and effective would he be once he starts sitting on our bench most weeks ?

Why has Poch never made any use of Nkoudou (or Sissoko as a attacker), even at the arse end of games in the last year and a half, if he is remotely interested in this type of player or approach ?

Man City don't play on the counter, yet how many times did they isolate Trippier yesterday? in heavily possession-based games, we absolutely should be looking to move teams about, pull them apart with clever movement in order to create the 1v1 or 2v1 situations that a player like Zaha would thrive on. that is going to work FAR more often than someone being able to dribble through multiple players and slip a team-mate in. the fact Pochettino hasn't used this approach either reflects badly on the options he has available or his own limitations as a coach. but IMO it's incorrect suggest that a player of Zaha's type is only effective in counter-attacking situations.

and even in tight games, a quicker player provides the option to play balls in behind defenders for them to run on to. you can watch through any of our games against Burnley, West Brom, Palace etc at home this season and see several instances where having a quicker player out wide could have presented such opportunities. no team, no matter how defensive, just plays with 10 men in their own box for 90 minutes.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Man City don't play on the counter, yet how many times did they isolate Trippier yesterday? in heavily possession-based games, we absolutely should be looking to move teams about, pull them apart with clever movement in order to create the 1v1 or 2v1 situations that a player like Zaha would thrive on. that is going to work FAR more often than someone being able to dribble through multiple players and slip a team-mate in. the fact Pochettino hasn't used this approach either reflects badly on the options he has available or his own limitations as a coach. but IMO it's incorrect suggest that a player of Zaha's type is only effective in counter-attacking situations.

and even in tight games, a quicker player provides the option to play balls in behind defenders for them to run on to. you can watch through any of our games against Burnley, West Brom, Palace etc at home this season and see several instances where having a quicker player out wide could have presented such opportunities. no team, no matter how defensive, just plays with 10 men in their own box for 90 minutes.

But we didn’t play a deep block yesterday either. And we sure as shit don’t move the ball as quickly or incisively as City

All that’s going to happen is Zaha will get the ball with 5 players in front of him, beat a couple, get a few oohs, then trip the ball away or whack it to nobody and I’ll have to listen to people on here telling me that even when he’s producing fuck all he’s actually “creating a time/space paradox”.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I dont think anyone is saying he's the complete player, if he was we couldnt afford him.

Can we afford 40-50m for (another) speedy erratic player to spend 25 games a season on our bench?

 

[For the love of Spurs]

Can we afford 40-50m for (another) speedy erratic player to spend 25 games a season on our bench?

Personally think Zaha is more than a bench player.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Personally think Zaha is more than a bench player.

Ok, who are you dropping From our first team ?

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

But we didn’t play a deep block yesterday either. And we sure as shit don’t move the ball as quickly or incisively as City

All that’s going to happen is Zaha will get the ball with 5 players in front of him, beat a couple, get a few oohs, then trip the ball away or whack it to nobody and I’ll have to listen to people on here telling me that even when he’s producing fuck all he’s actually “creating a time/space paradox”.

which should mean that somewhere else on the pitch, there should be an overload in our favour then, no? what's currently happening is we're beating no-one, and just passing it from side to side before eventually taking a pop from 30 yards.

with proper coaching, could be taught to be more decisive in such situations. but then I guess the team could also be taught to move the ball around and create space a lot better too.

we didn't play a deep block yesterday, but others have against City, and they're still able to generate isolation situations.

Ok, who are you dropping From our first team ?

this was the main argument against bringing in anyone of any real quality during the summer, but it makes no sense to me. we clearly need more options than have at present.

but to answer your question, take your pick really. no-one is currently making a case to be undroppable.

 

[matthew.absurdum]

Ok, who are you dropping From our first team ?

Maybe it depends on what Poch called the "competition"?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

BC thought that Lesniak could do what Wanyama could offer (now he thinks that Lesniak [or even Oduwa?] could do what Sissoko could offer). It is not surprisingly that he thinks that Zaha is not miles better than Nkoudou

What BC actually thought was that even though he didn’t rate Dier much as a CM, it appeared Poch did, and having just finished third with him there it seemed that we were buying Wanyama to be his back up, in which case I suggested we could use Lesniak as that back up busy **** anc spend the money on an 8 type instead like Tolisso.

I was wrong, Wanyama was bought to be first choice, and a damn fine one too, but I still would have been happy for Lesniak to have been used as a squad back up 6, and would still prefer him in any cm to Sissoko as a CM

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Can we afford 40-50m for (another) speedy erratic player to spend 25 games a season on our bench?

If he comes off the bench and changes games so that we get a result, then yeah.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I’ll have to listen to people on here telling me that even when he’s producing fuck all he’s actually “creating a time/space paradox”.

which should mean that somewhere else on the pitch, there should be an overload in our favour then, no?.

See, it's started already.