The 2016/17 Europa league and us: will we, should we and could we?

[TwanYid]

First off, let's lay off the stock response of "we should try to win every competition we're in." Yeah, sure- you can say that- but the fact is that we don't- nor does anyone else- and that's not a bad thing. If we went all out to "win every competition" we'd likely flame out of all of them. Every team plays the kids, every team rests starters and every team prioritizes certain matches/comps over others- it's just the way it is.

So- with that in mind: how do we all feel about our being in the Europa League? Will we honestly try and win the thing ("trying" being: not going all out for the FA Cup, playing front line starters in every match we need to win, and basically putting the needs of the EL ahead of any other requirements)? Will that happen- or will Poch do the slow torture thing of putting out strong teams in some games and mystifyingly weak line ups in others- with no rhyme or reason to anything?

And if he does this- if he only takes it semi-seriously- will you lot be infuriated? Because can we all agree that if you're not going all out then just throw the damn thing from the off (i.e. start the kids against Gent and never, ever look back) rather than his usual mix and match, "what the fuck is he DOING?!?'-method of these past few years...

And let's say that somehow, someway by some miracle he actually takes the competition seriously and fields strong, potent teams consistently (for each and every match when necessary)- then- in that case- do we all agree that we can actually win it? I mean look:

Round of 32 draw
Athletic Club (ESP) v APOEL (CYP)
Legia Warszawa (POL)* v Ajax (NED)
Anderlecht (BEL) v Zenit (RUS)
Astra Giurgiu (ROU) v Genk (BEL)
Manchester United (ENG) v St-Étienne (FRA)
Villarreal (ESP) v Roma (ITA)
Ludogorets Razgrad (BUL)* v København (DEN)*
Celta Vigo (ESP) v Shakhtar Donetsk (UKR)
Olympiacos (GRE) v Osmanlıspor (TUR)
Gent (BEL) v Tottenham Hotspur (ENG)*
Rostov (RUS)* v Sparta Praha (CZE)
Krasnodar (RUS) v Fenerbahçe (TUR)
Borussia Mönchengladbach (GER)* v Fiorentina (ITA)
AZ Alkmaar (NED) v Lyon (FRA)*
Hapoel Beer-Sheva (ISR) v Beşiktaş (TUR)*
PAOK (GRE) v Schalke (GER)

I challenge you to name a team that is demonstrably better than us. Who? Man U? Please. Roma? Um, no. Shalke? Fiorentina? Lyon? No, no and- sorry- no. Look- even if you could prove that so-and-so is dangerous and should not be taken lightly ("Hey- Ludogorets Razgard are 4 points clear of Nevski Sofia in the Bulgarian League!"), the fact is that there are no Chelseas or Real Madrids lurking to face us. Sure- such-and-such team may be strong- or bigger- than us-- but are they miles ahead?

Because the fact is that, whether we want to acknowledge it or not (and to acknowledge would be to admit that if we don't take it seriously this time, we will basically be committing a fucking crime), we are- and should be- among the favorites to win this trophy. No way around it- not this year.

So there we are. My feelings on it are that we ought to prioritize this competition (wait for it) over the League. Yes- I said it- this should be what we go all out to win, not the Prem- which is not only unwinable but an unlikely prospect as far as us even finishing in the top four is concerned. Chelsea, City and Ars*nal are shoo-ins for the CL spots- and Liverpool- with no Europe to even think about- are basically a lock as well. And even if we somehow could finish ahead of either 'Pool or Arse (which, again, probably won't happen)- the chances are so much lower than the chances of us winning the Europa League that I don't understand why we would even bother to prioritize the League over the EL.

Let me be clear: I'm NOT saying "throw the League" or "play the kids in the League"- I'm saying "go all out to win the Europa League"- even if on occasion that means resting one or two players for a League match in order to play them in the EL. Go for both- with the edge to the EL (rather than what will happen which will be to go for one [the League] over the other [the EL] while pretending to go for both: that, I hate).

Everyone says it's "hard to win the EL" and I would agree- except this season. This season, it's doable. Difficult, yes- but eminently within our grasp. Smash Gent (and c'mon- why would we not?) and then there'll be 7 matches left- the first two likely against someone relatively easy. Win those, and it's crunch time: quarters- semis- and then the final.

I mean, why not?!? A much-shittier-than-us Liverpool squad made the final (and likely would've won the whole thing had they not faced relative EL juggernaut Sevilla)- so why not us?!?

I truly, honestly know- not think, KNOW- that we can do this if we really want it. And if we do, then there's us in the Champions League again, for the second straight year. Why is this competition always out of our reach? Why is something that other clubs do- but not us? Why not field solid, competitive teams in the League while at the same time taking this ultra-seriously?

Will we?

Should we?

Could we?

 

[Lighty64]

do we really need a another new thread on this?

 

[TwanYid]

do we really need a another new thread on this?

I see "Europa League Draw vs. Gent" as a thread- I don't see "The Europa League and our approach to it" as a thread. There isn't another thread that talks about us in the competition holistically; rather, there's a "let's look at our next EL opponent"-thread.

That's why I started this- so maybe allow the mods to either move it- or let it be- as they see fit.

Oh, and possibly tell me your thoughts/engage with what I wrote in the meantime.

 

[Gbspurs]

Pointless thread is pointless.

Yes we could, we probably should and it's unlikely we will.

 

[TwanYid]

Pointless thread is pointless.

Yes we could, we probably should and it's unlikely we will.

Why is it pointless to discuss a major competition- and our role in it- on a Spurs discussion board? Wtf?!?

 

[TwanYid]

Could the next person just give his or her feelings as to what I wrote and not take pot-shots at the very idea of a thread on us in the Europa League? Or at the very least just ignore the thread?

 

[Lighty64]

I see "Europa League Draw vs. Gent" as a thread- I don't see "The Europa League and our approach to it" as a thread. There isn't another thread that talks about us in the competition holistically; rather, there's a "let's look at our next EL opponent"-thread.

That's why I started this- so maybe allow the mods to either move it- or let it be- as they see fit.

Oh, and possibly tell me your thoughts/engage with what I wrote in the meantime.

not read it yet because I saw the title and thought it was the 2nd or 3rd thread that had something to do with the Europa

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/ind...of-us-who-love-spurs-in-europa-league.127095/

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/ind...-the-europa-league.127072/page-9#post-5289367

 

[DEFchenkOE]

I don't think we'll win it.

I think we can win it and should try to.

But if it came down to a final between us and Man U, I wouldn't bet on us to succeed. Also we haven't really won any big european ties under Poch. And he seems a bit confused about his own rotation policy when it comes to resting players and the Champions/Europa league.

 

[TwanYid]

I don't think we'll win it.

I think we can win it and should try to.

But if it came down to a final between us and Man U, I wouldn't bet on us to succeed. Also we haven't really won any big european ties under Poch. And he seems a bit confused about his own rotation policy when it comes to resting players and the Champions/Europa league.

Bless you DEFchenkOE- FINALLY an answer to my question(s)!

Anyway yeah I agree- I just don't get why this is almost accepted as reality (even though I think you're right- paradoxically enough). It's almost as if we all as a fanbase acquiesce to the narrative that "Spurs don't win stuff like this- in fact, Spurs don't even show up for stuff like this."

Which is weird, because Spurs could WIN this. This year the trophy could easily be ours. In past years I would never say that; this year, I'm saying it loud and clear.

 

[yusrisafri]

Will we? No we wont win it.

Should we? No we shouldnt because Poch is not going to rotate players which will have adverse impact on our league position. Plus, no one really watches Europa when all big guns are fixated on CL.

Could we? No we couldn't even if we tried.

 

[TwanYid]

Will we? No we wont win it.

Should we? No we shouldnt because Poch is not going to rotate players which will have adverse impact on our league position. Plus, no one really watches Europa when all big guns are fixated on CL.

Could we? No we couldn't even if we tried.

Fair enough- but your response to "should we?" is meant to be about what you think we ought to do rather than what Poch (allegedly) will do. In other words, let's say he did rotate players-- would you then want us to go for it?

And why do you reckon we can't win it? Do you think we're not strong enough?

(Not having a go at you mate; genuinely interested in your line of reasoning)

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

If the right people decide to go for it, we'll play in the final. Once there, anything is possible.

I see "Europa League Draw vs. Gent" as a thread- I don't see "The Europa League and our approach to it" as a thread. There isn't another thread that talks about us in the competition holistically; rather, there's a "let's look at our next EL opponent"-thread.

That's why I started this- so maybe allow the mods to either move it- or let it be- as they see fit.

Oh, and possibly tell me your thoughts/engage with what I wrote in the meantime.

There is this thread, which to be frank, the OP did a heck of a job.
http://spurscommunity.co.uk/index.p...of-us-who-love-spurs-in-europa-league.127095/

 

[guy]

We should go for it, as others have said though poch gets confused by rotation. He picks some odd teams and I think this will probably undo us again in the round of 16/qtrs

 

[yusrisafri]

Fair enough- but your response to "should we?" is meant to be about what you think we ought to do rather than what Poch (allegedly) will do. In other words, let's say he did rotate players-- would you then want us to go for it?

And why do you reckon we can't win it? Do you think we're not strong enough?

(Not having a go at you mate; genuinely interested in your line of reasoning)

No no i dont think youre having a go, dont worry. Its just 2 civilsied human beings having a discussion.

If Poch rotates heavily then those who play ought to give their hearts out. We wont go far as theyll most likely be 2nd teamers but at least they try. But Poch wont do that. And it'll eventually be detrimental to the squad in the PL run-in.

To answer your 2nd question, no i dont think we're strong enough as a squad.

 

[TwanYid]

If the right people decide to go for it, we'll play in the final. Once there, anything is possible.


There is this thread, which to be frank, the OP did a heck of a job.
http://spurscommunity.co.uk/index.p...of-us-who-love-spurs-in-europa-league.127095/

You're right- I just saw that no one had responded to it in two weeks (it fell all the way off the first two pages of SC)- so instead of resurrecting it- which I should've done- I started a new one in the hopes of renewing interest (new threads tending to stay up more than resurrected old ones). I'm not against morphing this one into yours- I loved yours- as long as this discussion stays alive.

I honestly think that this is our one best chance for true, honest glory (winning the Europa League has literally transformed both Atletico Madrid and Sevilla; both have been brought up to an entirely new level after winning it), not to mention the ancillary benefits of:

1) Winning a major trophy, and,

2) Remaining in the Champions League

These- combined with our imminent move into our new stadium- could raise our entire club to new heights.

Way more than fucking off the competition, and then finishing fifth.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

You're right- I just saw that no one had responded to it in two weeks (it fell all the way off the first two pages of SC)- so instead of resurrecting it- which I should've done- I started a new one in the hopes of renewing interest (new threads tending to stay up more than resurrected old ones). I'm not against morphing this one into yours- I loved yours- as long as this discussion stays alive.

I honestly think that this is our one best chance for true, honest glory (winning the Europa League has literally transformed both Atletico Madrid and Sevilla; both have been brought up to an entirely new level after winning it), not to mention the ancillary benefits of:

1) Winning a major trophy, and,

2) Remaining in the Champions League

These- combined with our imminent move into our new stadium- could raise our entire club to new heights.

Way more than fucking off the competition, and then finishing fifth.

Don't you worry. It was all tounge in cheek. I don't mind.

 

[Shadydan]

No point speculating now take each day as it comes.

 

[Monkey Bastard Hands]

Will we win it? No

Should we win it? Yes

Could we win it? Yes.

If we fancy ourselves as Champions League regulars then we should be able to compete with the so called "second tier" teams in Europe, and this is the only way we can do it. The sad fact is that other countries take this competition much more seriously than English teams and so it would take an extraordinary shift in attitude for us to succeed and win this tournament. I don't know what the prize money is for this competition, but I would bet a tenner that the difference in prize money between final league places in the Premier League is equal to if not more than the money you'd win in the Europa League, so it probably benefits the club to do better in the domestic league than to win this trophy.

Personally however I would love us to get to the final and win the bloody thing.

 

[TwanYid]

Will we win it? No

Should we win it? Yes

Could we win it? Yes.

If we fancy ourselves as Champions League regulars then we should be able to compete with the so called "second tier" teams in Europe, and this is the only way we can do it. The sad fact is that other countries take this competition much more seriously than English teams and so it would take an extraordinary shift in attitude for us to succeed and win this tournament. I don't know what the prize money is for this competition, but I would bet a tenner that the difference in prize money between final league places in the Premier League is equal to if not more than the money you'd win in the Europa League, so it probably benefits the club to do better in the domestic league than to win this trophy.

Personally however I would love us to get to the final and win the bloody thing.

Great response.

One question (or thing to think about at least): wouldn't being in the Champions League in 2017-18 be a lot better than, say, a fifth place finish in the EPL this season? I mean yeah, sure, a fourth place finish- along with its attendant CL qualification- would be ideal- but pragmatically we are the likeliest not to be invited to that party. As much as I would love it, chances are we're finishing 5th at best. (Yeah I get it- we could do it; my point is that- odds are- we won't).

HOWEVER, we are practically odds-on favorites to win the Europa League, with only Manure being favored over us! And they are freakin' terrible!!!

Wednesday 24th May 2017
Europa League Winner 16/17 - Win Outright

Manchester Utd 4/1 Tottenham 15/2
Roma 11/1 Zenit St Petersburg 12/1
Shakhtar Donetsk 12/1 Schalke 14/1
Lyon 16/1 Athletic Bilbao 16/1
Fiorentina 18/1 Villarreal 22/1
FC Copenhagen 28/1 Borussia Mgladbach 28/1
Fenerbahce 28/1 Ajax 28/1
Besiktas 28/1 Celta Vigo 33/1
Olympiacos 33/1 FK Krasnodar 40/1
Sparta Prague 50/1 Rostov 50/1
Genk 50/1 Anderlecht 50/1
St Etienne 66/1 Ludogorets Razgrad 100/1
Osmanlispor 100/1 APOEL 100/1
Gent 150/1 Legia Warsaw 150/1
Hapeol Beer Sheva 150/1 AZ Alkmaar 250/1
Astra Giurgiu 250/1PAOK 250/1

So why in God's name don't/won't we take this seriously?!?

WE CAN FINALLY WIN THE FUCKING THING!!!!!

 

[TwanYid]

No point speculating now take each day as it comes.

I understand that sentiment but I almost feel like if we as a fanbase demanded that the club take the competition more seriously then maybe- just maybe- it might bleed over to the board/Levy/Poch. Remember how the Liverpool fans boycotted Hicks and Gillette until those slimeballs left, because they just couldn't deal with it anymore? Well, what if we, too, were rancorous- if somehow we also made our voices heard? Look, I'm not saying we have a situation like theirs (although tbh under Hicks and Gillette they made two Champions League finals and won one- so it's not like they had it that bad either)- but throwing this competition when we absolutely 100% positively could win it is fucking criminal imo- and I'm betting 90% of us (at least) would truly want to see us give it a proper go.

I think our supporters just feel impotent, that's all (and not in a way a Smurf could help with lol).