The beginning of the end...

[Ronwol196061]

People can argue whether such a thread /opinion is kneejerk or not but I suppose when looking at the fact that we have had 4 wins in last 15 league games, 3 of which were when we just moved into the new stadium, then it highlights that there are some big issues at the minute which need to be sorted and quickly

Sid even if you forget about wins,does our team flow at all. It's been few and far between.
Those back and forth passes by our back line,the moves upfield and get to the final third and no further.
There us no flow.
In defence we are sitting ducks when they get that our marking is terrible and the high line cant hold.Sanchez is the worst

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

Thing that annoys me is the way the current system completely stifles Kane, what happened to the set up for 16-17 season, where Kane would get actual service and we would play free flowing attacking football, instead of the current ponderous stuff etc where we would flatten mediocre teams like today with ease. Between 15-18 season he got an amazing 84 league goals, no it feels like he gets virtually no service and a shadow.

We havent played like that in a while, the win against villa, the late wins against newcastle, fulham, burnley, brighton and watford last season have papered over the cracks, that against mediocre teams we are so poor and labored now.

Feels like long gone are the days of thrashing Leicester, Hull, Stoke etc with ease, the current system is predictable and far to slow and today we ran out of that luck, manager has got to take responsibility for that.

We play that way when Kane is not on the pitch. But Kan is always on if he can walk.

 

[beats1]

We have some players who I don't think are good enough (yet anyway), but a large part of poor performances this year have been Poch's and his staff's fault. There's been too many game where we've been shit in the first half - we're now at 23 out of the last 28 games without a first half goal - but suddenly play much better in the second with the exact same players. There's also been a couple of games (Burnley and Southampton come to mind immediately) where he hasn't reacted to changes in formations from them and they've cost of games. There's been a lot of games where the players have bailed out bad decisions from Poch, but they can't always do it and need a fighting chance.

The problem is we sign new players and then blame the old ones once things aren't working out, then when get to the next window, we sign new players and blame the players we signed before.

This cycle was stopped by levy not signing anyone and I expect it to start once again now

 

[punky]

I don't agree with people saying something has gone wrong. We've always been like this.

Certainly for all the seasons at Wembley teams have known they can just come to us, stick 10 men behind the ball and we'll endlessly pass the ball from side to side in front of them. Throw in some timewasting and the odd quick counterattack and they stand a good chance at 3 points. The likes of Burnleys and West Broms have done pretty well with this approach. Even when Eriksen was happy and most productive we laboured to get the balls behind the back 4 and into the box.

Poch has never been known for his tactical genius. He's one of the arm-round-the-player, Redknapp mould. There's never a clear tactical vision and when things are going wrong, he rarely changes anything. Poch rarely gets out of his seat, whereas Bruce never left the side of the pitch. Poch did an early double sub but you can count on 1 hand the amount of times he has done. Even a sub before 80 minutes is out of the ordinary.

Shit day at the office but nothing we haven't seen a dozen or more times before. And it's not likely to change.

 

[punky]

Gonna get much worse next week

We’ll do our usual recent bending over at their gaff unfortunately

Arsenal won't park the bus like Newcastle did. They will gave us space, it's up to us to exploit it. It will be an open game, probably 2-2.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Plan B??? He lacks a bloody plan A at the moment!

Haha so true lol

 

[Joeyboey]

I don't agree with people saying something has gone wrong. We've always been like this.

Certainly for all the seasons at Wembley teams have known they can just come to us, stick 10 men behind the ball and we'll endlessly pass the ball from side to side in front of them. Throw in some timewasting and the odd quick counterattack and they stand a good chance at 3 points. The likes of Burnleys and West Broms have done pretty well with this approach. Even when Eriksen was happy and most productive we laboured to get the balls behind the back 4 and into the box.

Poch has never been known for his tactical genius. He's one of the arm-round-the-player, Redknapp mould. There's never a clear tactical vision and when things are going wrong, he rarely changes anything. Poch rarely gets out of his seat, whereas Bruce never left the side of the pitch. Poch did an early double sub but you can count on 1 hand the amount of times he has done. Even a sub before 80 minutes is out of the ordinary.

Shit day at the office but nothing we haven't seen a dozen or more times before. And it's not likely to change.

We’ve won 3 of our last 12 playing the worst football we’ve ever done under Poch and the press has just disappeared.

Something is most certainly wrong.

 

[Gareth88]

We'll lose to Arsenal and then have to endure the international break during which Kane will do his ankles.

?

Game over for half the people on here including me, the Samaritans will be offering £27 a hour in that case

 

[markiespurs]

I don't agree with people saying something has gone wrong. We've always been like this.

Certainly for all the seasons at Wembley teams have known they can just come to us, stick 10 men behind the ball and we'll endlessly pass the ball from side to side in front of them. Throw in some timewasting and the odd quick counterattack and they stand a good chance at 3 points. The likes of Burnleys and West Broms have done pretty well with this approach. Even when Eriksen was happy and most productive we laboured to get the balls behind the back 4 and into the box.

Poch has never been known for his tactical genius. He's one of the arm-round-the-player, Redknapp mould. There's never a clear tactical vision and when things are going wrong, he rarely changes anything. Poch rarely gets out of his seat, whereas Bruce never left the side of the pitch. Poch did an early double sub but you can count on 1 hand the amount of times he has done. Even a sub before 80 minutes is out of the ordinary.

Shit day at the office but nothing we haven't seen a dozen or more times before. And it's not likely to change.

Which for me raises a lot of question marks over Pochs suitability to take us to the next level, which is trophy winners.

 

[Hercules]

Let me try to put things if I can, with some perspective:

1. Dier-not up to speed after his operation, so on the bench.
2. Alli-Been our with a jammy, and now fit (almost).
3. Verts-apparently was well below par fitness wise.
4. Davis-Coming back from an operation.
5. Foyth-Out until September at the earliest.
6. Aurier-has his head on a transfer
7. TN-injures today
8. Sess-Out until September
9. Son-First game today
10. CE-Wants out, but may have to work out what he is going to do.

That is 10 reasons for abject performances, with no cohesion, harmony etc. Now Poch has to take blame as he is tge captain of the ship, so to speak. I think we need to hold out until the 10 things are resolved coherently, andcsee hiw we do before going ballistic. I fully respect the OP though.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Maybe a mix of both? But if I have to choose one I say the manager. There's no consistency is Pochs coaching. We play a new formation all the time.

There's no room for the players to learn how we should play if you switch formations all the time. For example, if you play a 4-2-3-1 with wingers, the build up and offensive movement/runs is vastly different compared to a 4-1-2-1-2 where you have no wingers.

And the players should learn the patterns, build up and how to move with and without the ball during the training sessions. And if we switch formations all the time, I just can't see how the players could perform the way we all want. So yeah, the manager. And it doesn't help when he doesn't start our best centre back last season and our most creative player.

Absolutely agree. A plan B is great but a solid consistent plan A is key. I’ve only played to semi pro but I know that the best most consistent team I played in was when the coach clearly set us out in a 3-5-2 and every man to a tee knee 100% tactically and positionally where to be and we had utter confidence in every game because we had a set way of play and similar players, round pegs in round holes week after week and we went undefeated for 15 games and won the league that year. Next season we had injuries and different players and we were changing Formation and personnel every week and as soon as you don’t have that plan A and are changing it every week we just all felt a mess and frustrated. That will be happening with spurs right now I can guarantee that.

 

[Ben1]

Let me try to put things if I can, with some perspective:

1. Dier-not up to speed after his operation, so on the bench.
2. Alli-Been our with a jammy, and now fit (almost).
3. Verts-apparently was well below par fitness wise.
4. Davis-Coming back from an operation.
5. Foyth-Out until September at the earliest.
6. Aurier-has his head on a transfer
7. TN-injures today
8. Sess-Out until September
9. Son-First game today
10. CE-Wants out, but may have to work out what he is going to do.

That is 10 reasons for abject performances, with no cohesion, harmony etc. Now Poch has to take blame as he is tge captain of the ship, so to speak. I think we need to hold out until the 10 things are resolved coherently, andcsee hiw we do before going ballistic. I fully respect the OP though.

That's football i'm afraid. Injuries happen and when they are sorted, there will be other issues.

 

[Sandros Shiny Head]

Let me try to put things if I can, with some perspective:

1. Dier-not up to speed after his operation, so on the bench.
2. Alli-Been our with a jammy, and now fit (almost).
3. Verts-apparently was well below par fitness wise.
4. Davis-Coming back from an operation.
5. Foyth-Out until September at the earliest.
6. Aurier-has his head on a transfer
7. TN-injures today
8. Sess-Out until September
9. Son-First game today
10. CE-Wants out, but may have to work out what he is going to do.

That is 10 reasons for abject performances, with no cohesion, harmony etc. Now Poch has to take blame as he is tge captain of the ship, so to speak. I think we need to hold out until the 10 things are resolved coherently, andcsee hiw we do before going ballistic. I fully respect the OP though.

Sorry this is nonsense, we knew ages ago that half of those wouldn’t be playing. It’s no excuse for not having a clue what to do during the game. Trying a system and performing poorly is one thing but not even knowing what you’re trying to do is an issue planted squarely with the coaches

 

[Hercules]

That's football i'm afraid. Injuries happen and when they are sorted, there will be other issues.

I fully agree, but I tend to look on the facts, and not as excuses. I just feel that there are too many issues behind closed doors, in light of what I addressed, just purely to put things in perspective.

 

[JCRD]

For someone who believes massively in what positive energy can achieve, Pochs certainly created a ton of negative energy over the last year.

I love Poch and am grateful for everything he has done for us, but I am having serious doubts as to whether he can take us to the next level and win trophies.

We need to fuckin buy him some lemons - maybe a big damn tree... lemon tree..

 

[wiggo24]

https://amp.theguardian.com/footbal...mauricio-pochettino?__twitter_impression=true

This, the Vertonghen Black eye and exclusion, the moodiness from Poch.

Yeah, something's gone on behind the scenes.

 

[Primativ]

Let me try to put things if I can, with some perspective:

1. Dier-not up to speed after his operation, so on the bench.
2. Alli-Been our with a jammy, and now fit (almost).
3. Verts-apparently was well below par fitness wise.
4. Davis-Coming back from an operation.
5. Foyth-Out until September at the earliest.
6. Aurier-has his head on a transfer
7. TN-injures today
8. Sess-Out until September
9. Son-First game today
10. CE-Wants out, but may have to work out what he is going to do.

That is 10 reasons for abject performances, with no cohesion, harmony etc. Now Poch has to take blame as he is tge captain of the ship, so to speak. I think we need to hold out until the 10 things are resolved coherently, andcsee hiw we do before going ballistic. I fully respect the OP though.

Sorry but just no. We’ve been atrocious since Xmas. Blaming injuries? Aurier wanting out means we play like crap for 9 months? Poch never plays him anyway.

Alli has been out of from for a year. A huge part of our bad run has been with him in the side being a part of it. Now he’s missing it’s because he’s injured?!

 

[g_harry]

I have absoultey loved football the last couple of years because Poch had built a united club, building something we all could be proud of again, especially with winning games in style. However for the last year i have felt a different tone from Poch. One that does not seem to be pulling with hierarchy of the club. I just dont understand what has gone wrong.

 

[Teddy Klinsmann]

Where is that high press and intensity from a season or so ago? Tempo to our play is slow and lethargic. Something is going on behind the scenes with players and management. Vertonghen is a popular member of squad - players will support their own. I’m beginning to believe the Poch project is coming to an end. Real job etc comes up again, I think he and Levy will see it as an amicable way to split if things don’t improve considerably. Last 15 = relegation form!

 

[wiggo24]

Thing is, I've never seen Poch as a particularly tactically superior coach - he's not a Pep in that sense.

His main attribute at all his clubs has been his ability to create a positive atmosphere where players will run (and press) through walls for him. That fighting mentality (and some luck with Kane coming good) is what's got us top 4 in the last few seasons.

However, he seems to have lost the ability to do this/isn't reflecting this at all in his press conferences or sideline behavior. Without the positivity, belief, passion etc he's just a decent coach with some learning to do.

It appears we've lost our identity and belief and, given that this is Pochettino's main selling point, I think it's very worrying indeed.