The beginning of the end...

[Ronwol196061]

Do you remember his interview before we played Villa? He said he was “very, very happy” with our transfer business ?

He talks in circles.
Stop Poch and take responsibility!

 

[Ronwol196061]

Po

Obligatory 'I love Poch etc etc' to start with....

It must be strange for the players who are expected to show unwavering loyalty yet on the other hand hear their coach talking about moving on if we win the CL final / flirting with RM and being generally non committal. Double standards?

He's an emotional guy and has taken us a long way on positive energy and ethos, but when that starts to drop, including with himself, or it doesn't bring in the prizes, it makes you wonder if the players begin to see though it.

Hope he can turn this around. COYS!

The players say they believe but do they?
It's hard to believe they really do.

Next week is huge.

We need to win but even.more need a performance allaying all these fears.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

A final we lost. I think Guardiola would prefer the two PL titles and numerous other cups over a CL final defeat.

Klopp has reached four finals in four years at Liverpool, winning the biggest one of all.

The fact is, they have delivered trophies, Poch hasn't. That is even before we start dissecting the fact that both of them have their teams playing football a million miles better than what Poch is doing.

The sad thing about it all, is Liverpool's first 11 really isn't THAT much better than ours, but the difference is they clearly have an elite manager, Poch seems to be a step down from that top level in my humble opinion.

1000% this. I said it the day klopp joined they will overtake us in a few years not because of finances but because klopp is a world class manager and I’ve been proven right. They played us at WHL in his first game it was 0-0 but they pressed the shit out of us and probably should’ve beaten us and our team was stronger that day and poch had been in charge for a few seasons so had time to mould the team and squad. Yes we went on to finish above them but as you say they got to 4 or 5 finals we’ve made 1 which we lost. They also go toe to toe with many city in games against them and in the league, 98 points is just outstanding, our 86 points season wasn’t anywhere near that good or consistent.

He’s taken what coutiniho aside was a shit Liverpool team and squad and moulded them into a dominant effective machine.

 

[DCSPUR]

It’s not. What have you been watching since December!?

CL final?

 

[Timberwolf]

A final we lost. I think Guardiola would prefer the two PL titles and numerous other cups over a CL final defeat.

Klopp has reached four finals in four years at Liverpool, winning the biggest one of all.

The fact is, they have delivered trophies, Poch hasn't. That is even before we start dissecting the fact that both of them have their teams playing football a million miles better than what Poch is doing.

The sad thing about it all, is Liverpool's first 11 really isn't THAT much better than ours, but the difference is they clearly have an elite manager, Poch seems to be a step down from that top level in my humble opinion.

While on a factual level I agree with everything you say, I think some perspective is required. Klopp and Pep are arguably, pound for pound, the two best managers in the world. When we were languishing under Sherwood with a disjointed, disaffected squad we could never attract the likes of them, yet we managed to pick perhaps the only manager in the world who, given our limitations, could've earned us consistent top 4, a CL final, withstood Levy's "different" ways of doing business and the entire stadium debacle - all the while being a likeable, respectful ambassador for the club.

Sure, we might've brought in a better tactician or a bigger name (Van Gaal anyone?) who would've won us a league/FA cup, but I don't think there's a single manager who would've stewarded the club forward in the way that Poch has done. Even the world's best managers would've likely lost their rag with Levy and hightailed it, or had a prolonged downturn in form and been sacked. To turn around after all he's done for us and just focus on how he's not as good as literally the best in the world just doesn't sit right with me. As Spurs fans we can't start acting like we have a divine right to have one of the world's best managers and consistent top 4 finishes - look at where we were in the 90s and the 00s. Without Poch there's every chance we'd have spent the last 5 years slugging it out with Everton or even West Ham rather than having title challenges and a CL final. Of course it's disappointing that we haven't won anything, but the fact that we've come so close is in itself a gigantic leap forward - cue Bill Nick quotes. We should be gracious and appreciate Poch for what he has done rather than chastising him for what he hasn't over these past seasons.

Having said all that, something does seem rotten in the state of Denmark (and I'm not talking about the Eriksen contract situation). Isn't there some theory that manager/teams tend to have 5 year cycles, and it's a tiny percentage of managers that are able to sustain a high level for any longer than that? The mental fatigue, overfamiliarity, difficulties refreshing and building a new team - all these factors come in to play for both the manager and the players. I'm starting to wonder if Poch's ideas simply aren't quite getting through anymore and everyone is just going through the motions, like a couple in a long term relationship slowly drifting apart.

Would the best bet for everyone be a clean break and a fresh start? I'm certainly not willing to go that far yet, but if things continue in the same vein the signs aren't good. Barring a complete collapse he'll surely be our manager for the remainder of the season, but if we can't get out of this tactical malaise and he's still moody and discontent come the summer, maybe something will happen.

However, I guarantee that whoever replaces Poch, whether it's sooner or later, will bring a whole lot of other baggage that will have people looking back very fondly indeed at some of Poch's qualities they're taking for granted right now.

 

[piedpiper]

In all seriousness since the CL final and with every Poch press conference after that I've not been able to shake this thought Mourinho will end up as our coach at some point. If Poch doesn't get us out of this rut, it'll happen.

Come on Poch, sort it out

6 years ago I would have loved the idea. However seeing his teams style of play at united and Chelsea 2nd time around I would hope we stay far from him.

Amazing how we have grown that I don't consider Mourinho good enough. He'll be a disaster in a year or two. I would want Ancelotti..... Someone who has won a trophy or two.

 

[DCSPUR]

patience lads....there's a lot of nonsense out there at the moment.
Let the window close, let's see who is here and then let Poch get to work. If he could take the negatives of last summer and turn us into top 4 + CLF....he can certainly do it again, particularly when TN, GLC and RS are fully up to speed.
It would help a lot of CE recommitted or was sold to be honest.

 

[markdadude]

what if Poch is suspicious that Levy has been plotting to replace him for some time? Betrayal from above would perfectly explain his behaviour over the past year or so wouldn't it?... maybe, even, he thinks the transfers were picked by his successor.
The eriksen and vertongen situation could be a subtle act of sabotage in response.
It wouldn't be the first time Levy has done this. Jol had the highest win percentage in our PL history at the time but it all unravelled when he became aware Levy was going behind his back to get Ramos.
Strange also that the camera panned to Mourinho watching the game.
All speculation, but I think it makes sense.

 

[Snarfalicious]

what if Poch is suspicious that Levy has been plotting to replace him for some time? Betrayal from above would perfectly explain his behaviour over the past year or so wouldn't it?... maybe, even, he thinks the transfers were picked by his successor.
The eriksen and vertongen situation could be a subtle act of sabotage in response.
It wouldn't be the first time Levy has done this. Jol had the highest win percentage in our PL history at the time but it all unravelled when he became aware Levy was going behind his back to get Ramos.
Strange also that the camera panned to Mourinho watching the game.
All speculation, but I think it makes sense.

Maybe Pochettino has fallen victim to an alien body snatcher from the planet Pertburnarfurn; this same planet has taken a liking to Arsenal from afar and this has all been a ploy to use their superior technology and abilities to Trojan horse their bitter rivals.

 

[Sandros Shiny Head]

what if Poch is suspicious that Levy has been plotting to replace him for some time? Betrayal from above would perfectly explain his behaviour over the past year or so wouldn't it?... maybe, even, he thinks the transfers were picked by his successor.
The eriksen and vertongen situation could be a subtle act of sabotage in response.
It wouldn't be the first time Levy has done this. Jol had the highest win percentage in our PL history at the time but it all unravelled when he became aware Levy was going behind his back to get Ramos.
Strange also that the camera panned to Mourinho watching the game.
All speculation, but I think it makes sense.

If you think that makes sense then you ought to stop smoking the hard stuff

 

[yankspurs]

Kill this thread. Burn it with fire and we’ll pretend this never happened.

 

[glacierSpurs]

Quite funny majority of you guys posting in here admitted to Poch sluggishness and kinda somehow won't be missing him if he walks or gets fired, but then still say not wanting him out... There's definitely a side in you that knows..

You guys know things won't change to what we all wanted - the hungry, pressing, effective and attacking play we all craved. At least that won't change instantly as we have now progressed into the sideway, possession passing team. So what change? Is a win here and there just what we all wanted, when we know these points gained are just papering over the cracks?

The charisma from Poch in press conference has gone, so is he EQ, which is astounding. Almost like a completely evil twin of Poch has taken his place.

The humanistic side of me will want to give him another chance, this season, to prove he can steer the ship. If not I'm all for supporting the other side of me..

 

[alexis]

While on a factual level I agree with everything you say, I think some perspective is required. Klopp and Pep are arguably, pound for pound, the two best managers in the world. When we were languishing under Sherwood with a disjointed, disaffected squad we could never attract the likes of them, yet we managed to pick perhaps the only manager in the world who, given our limitations, could've earned us consistent top 4, a CL final, withstood Levy's "different" ways of doing business and the entire stadium debacle - all the while being a likeable, respectful ambassador for the club.

Sure, we might've brought in a better tactician or a bigger name (Van Gaal anyone?) who would've won us a league/FA cup, but I don't think there's a single manager who would've stewarded the club forward in the way that Poch has done. Even the world's best managers would've likely lost their rag with Levy and hightailed it, or had a prolonged downturn in form and been sacked. To turn around after all he's done for us and just focus on how he's not as good as literally the best in the world just doesn't sit right with me. As Spurs fans we can't start acting like we have a divine right to have one of the world's best managers and consistent top 4 finishes - look at where we were in the 90s and the 00s. Without Poch there's every chance we'd have spent the last 5 years slugging it out with Everton or even West Ham rather than having title challenges and a CL final. Of course it's disappointing that we haven't won anything, but the fact that we've come so close is in itself a gigantic leap forward - cue Bill Nick quotes. We should be gracious and appreciate Poch for what he has done rather than chastising him for what he hasn't over these past seasons.

Having said all that, something does seem rotten in the state of Denmark (and I'm not talking about the Eriksen contract situation). Isn't there some theory that manager/teams tend to have 5 year cycles, and it's a tiny percentage of managers that are able to sustain a high level for any longer than that? The mental fatigue, overfamiliarity, difficulties refreshing and building a new team - all these factors come in to play for both the manager and the players. I'm starting to wonder if Poch's ideas simply aren't quite getting through anymore and everyone is just going through the motions, like a couple in a long term relationship slowly drifting apart.

Would the best bet for everyone be a clean break and a fresh start? I'm certainly not willing to go that far yet, but if things continue in the same vein the signs aren't good. Barring a complete collapse he'll surely be our manager for the remainder of the season, but if we can't get out of this tactical malaise and he's still moody and discontent come the summer, maybe something will happen.

However, I guarantee that whoever replaces Poch, whether it's sooner or later, will bring a whole lot of other baggage that will have people looking back very fondly indeed at some of Poch's qualities they're taking for granted right now.

Who would you want to come and manage us next

 

[alexis]

Lots of these threads at the moment- style of play- is it the manager or players - can’t we just put these all into one moaning bitch thread that I can put on ignore.

 

[jolsnogross]

This is a meaningless thread. His first day at Spurs was also the beginning of the end. It's absurd to think the guy has lost the plot on the basis of this game or even end of season form last year.

Our inability to break down deep lying defences is a big issue, but Poch has shown himself to solve problems previously and will do again.

 

[ohtottenham!]

Lots of these threads at the moment- style of play- is it the manager or players - can’t we just put these all into one moaning bitch thread that I can put on ignore.

Sure there are some reactions which are negatively OTT, but there are also some valid concerns. Expectations have risen with our improvement under Poch, which is a good thing, but it also means that we're more demanding as fans, which we should be seeing as we've won zilch for years. And, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see there are currently plenty of issues going on both on and off the field.

Think it all works out pretty well on this forum as a whole. You can easily tune out the serial moaners, and read plenty of other constructive posts, critical/positive or a mixture of both. Alternatively, you could ignore anything "negative", which would also include plenty of our actual football recently.

 

[Franc]

This is who we've beaten in the League in 2019:

Cardiff (relegated)
Fulham (relegated) - 93' winner
Watford - 87' winner
Newcastle - 83' winner
Leicester
Palace
Huddersfield (relegated)
Brighton (2 points from relegation zone) - 88' winner
Aston Villa (promoted) - 86' winner

 

[SpursSince1980]

This is who we've beaten in the League in 2019:

Cardiff (relegated)
Fulham (relegated)
Watford
Newcastle
Leicester
Palace
Huddersfield (relegated)
Brighton (2 points from relegation zone)
Aston Villa (promoted)

Yoiks!!

 

[SugarRay]

what if Poch is suspicious that Levy has been plotting to replace him for some time? Betrayal from above would perfectly explain his behaviour over the past year or so wouldn't it?... maybe, even, he thinks the transfers were picked by his successor.
The eriksen and vertongen situation could be a subtle act of sabotage in response.
It wouldn't be the first time Levy has done this. Jol had the highest win percentage in our PL history at the time but it all unravelled when he became aware Levy was going behind his back to get Ramos.
Strange also that the camera panned to Mourinho watching the game.
All speculation, but I think it makes sense.

Levy has offered Mourinho the job plenty of times in the past so it might have legs

 

[Twizzle]

nice to see there is no over reaction here