The beginning of the end...

[Mr Pink]

But we didn't, then there was reliable ITK saying Poch has lost the dressing room...its the ITK that has made people concerned and driven the page count.

That's spot on. I'm one of Poch's biggest advocates but when a respected ITK says he's lost the dressing room very early on in the thread it's no surprise that the thread has grown massively.

Had that contribution not occurred we'd still be on page 10 probably.

 

[Good Doctor M]

It has been boiling for months mate. Sunday was the catalyst.

For months?

What did I miss? I can't remember a more positive summer on here in years.

 

[soup]

Looks like we've got a few people who have got the hump, because a few other people have got the hump, because Poch's got the hump. And we're all telling each other to either stop having the hump with Poch having the hump, or defending our right to have the hump, due to Poch having the hump.

We're all the same really.

Hugs. But not crying. Real man here.

 

[Dougal]

Looks like we've got a few people who have got the hump, because a few other people have got the hump, because Poch's got the hump. And we're all telling each other to stop having the hump with Poch having the hump, or defending our right to have the hump, due to Poch having the hump.

We're all the same really.

Hugs. But not crying. Real man here.

Well, we just need to get to the next game and tomorrow I’d half way there.

Commonly known as hump day.

 

[Timberwolf]

I get the deflation - I was shocked really by the Newcastle display - but certainly, before the Newcastle game, I'm fairly certain optimism was in abundance. Crazy that one result gave birth to this 75 page thread of what is mostly grown men crying.

What was it - 97% predicted a Spurs victory? Most by multiple goals - myself included. Admittedly after Newcastle's performance against Norwich that was to be expected - but for about a year I've not felt truly confident home or away against any team that sits back against us except Huddersfield and maybe Cardiff. Over the years we've occasionally been held to draws by the likes of West Brom, Brighton, West Ham and Watford but in the past year we've looked less convincing than ever and those draws have become losses.

In the first half of last season we squeaked our way to tons of marginal, unconvincing, one goal wins. The difference is that when we were winning badly, any hint of a complaint was derided for being horribly negative by certain quarters. "Winning ugly is the sign of champions" etc, when in reality we were often getting the rub of the green and/or relying on moments of individual brilliance.

The more I think about the individual games, the more miraculous I think it is that we actually managed to get Champions League last season. Now is that down to Poch's brilliance getting just enough out of a tired, injury-ravaged squad with no reinforcements and European distractions, or is it the beginning of a long decline and our players are actually performing below their abilities? I suspect the truth lies somewhere in the middle - and the next 6 games will be the true test of what level we're at and how deep the rot goes.

 

[shelfmonkey]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...-his-hunger-and-focus-and-tottenham-95v3rwc9t

What’s up with MoPo? An ill-wind blows through the open European transfer window at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium, ruffling Mauricio Pochettino. Tottenham’s esteemed manager has some legitimate frustration about the September 2 deadline making his stars vulnerable to covetous Continental clubs, yet it is hard to escape the feeling that he’s making a stiff breeze out to be a hurricane. His downbeat, distracted mood may harm Spurs more. Can we have the old Poch back, please, that famous breath of fresh air?

So much is right about Spurs, from infrastructure to quality of staff and quantity of fanbase, that Pochettino’s current behaviour seems particularly unnecessary. The 47-year-old Argentinian is certainly in a strange mood. A good result in next Sunday’s north London derby at the Emirates Stadium, where they have not won in the league since 2010, will change everything, of course, bringing a smile back to the face of Pochettino, and stilling the concerns of many Spurs fans.

Pochettino is rightly beloved by the Tottenham faithful after four successive qualifications for the Champions League, including that memorable run to last season’s final built on the camaraderie seen in the stunning semi-final comeback against Ajax in Amsterdam. Pochettino is a special managerial talent, experienced too with 279 games at Spurs, which makes his current frame of mind even harder to fathom.

Listening to Pochettino’s post-match media debrief after Sunday’s loss to Newcastle United evoked bafflement. His body language was uninspiring, some of his utterances negative, even suggesting that a “strong team bond” is “still far, far away from what we expect”. Why say that? What possible benefit can there be to indicate the team unit lacks unity? He may have been hinting that all will be well after September 2, when he knows the players he is working with, but it is risky and needless.

His comments were set within the context of the uncertainty bestowed by the European window closing later than the Premier League’s, leaving the English vulnerable and complicating his team building. Well, put the violin away, Pochettino: other managers avoid being as side-tracked as he is, preferring to focus on tactics, not transfers; the English have been plundering foreign clubs for years; and Spurs are the masters of brinkmanship in the market through their chairman, Daniel Levy, so can hardly complain about the impact of any last-minute departures. If a club comes in late for Christian Eriksen, bringing the usual intense focus, even circus, well that’s Levynomics.

Against Newcastle, Pochettino began with two of his best players, Eriksen and Jan Vertonghen, on the bench amid doubts about their futures. “We have an unsettled group for different reasons and different personal circumstances,” Pochettino said. “Some situations we cannot fix,” he added, admitting that he is finding the situation “difficult to handle”. That’s what managers do: they handle situations, however difficult.

Given Spurs’ lack of a high-calibre passer to feed Harry Kane, Pochettino needed Eriksen against Newcastle (and he eventually came on). “The players who are out are always good when you don’t win,” Pochettino replied to a question on Eriksen not starting. That’s slightly disrespectful to the Dane, who is frequently good when he’s let on the field — as a record of 49 goals and 60 assists in his 209 Premier League appearances, and interest from other clubs, would confirm.

Given Davinson Sánchez is still learning, Pochettino needed Vertonghen alongside his Belgian international colleague Toby Alderweireld. Sánchez was caught out for Newcastle’s goal from Joelinton.

There is a lament among some fans about Pochettino’s mood and also Levy not giving the manager the dream squad he wants. Levy has still sanctioned the recruitment of the £53.8 million Tanguy Ndombélé, who could prove immense in the centre, the considerable potential of the £25 million Ryan Sessegnon and the on-loan signing of Giovani Lo Celso, who just needs to get up to speed. The failure to push more forcefully for Jack Grealish and trigger his £60 million escape clause was odd, as the Aston Villa midfielder, if he had come, would have brought energy and ideas.

If Pochettino is still making points to Levy publicly about investing more in the squad, and not allowing players to run down contracts, well, it’s not helping the club. At the very least, his preoccupied demeanour sparks debate among supporters, darkening the mood further.

Such an adept coach as Pochettino, whose sessions inspire instant respect and admiration amongst managerial mentees flocking to look and learn, should be confronting other issues, not worrying about an awkward window. A manager of such stellar calibre should be sorting out such issues as: the wonderful Danny Rose sadly not being the force of old; Kyle Walker-Peters needing time to mature into Kyle Walker, or, yes, Kieran Trippier (and he has just pulled a hamstring anyway); the lack of width and a plan B especially with Fernando Llorente gone; the absence of a sustained and high press; and a paucity of real urgency in building attacks, occasionally being too sideways. He cannot blame the transfer window for all of this. That’s coaching and tactics, getting the ball to Kane in more dangerous positions.

Amid this slightly listless period at the club, it needs some perspective and the reminder that Spurs still have the best stadium in the country for blend of atmosphere and facilities and training facilities second only to Manchester City’s, and that they did reach the Champions League final last June. It’s ridiculously early in the season to panic, with the Champions League group stage not even drawn yet. They defeated Aston Villa and took a point off City, at the home of the champions, however fortuitously, and were denied two penalties against Newcastle. They have plenty of talent in the squad. Pochettino needs to restore Spurs’ hunger, urgency and focus — and his own.

I don't think the transfer window timeline for us is the problem. Something much deeper is going on, after all we've been in decline for 18 months or so.

 

[am_yisrael_chai]

have you forgotten about Burkenshaw?

No. Poch is light years better than Burkinshaw. Good cup manager, no progress in the league. I hate to think the abuse he would have got if SC existed in the early 80s. Only won the first cup due to a fluke goal from Villa, needed a penalty for his second cup against a first division QPR and nearly blew it at home against Anderlecht. Not my thoughts but akin to some of the crap levelled at Poch in this thread.

 

[Ronwol196061]

I would say most fans don't think it's as bad as they are expressing but were really disappointed with this performance about as much as any due to the higher expectations. We want to be in the elite and that performances smashes us in the balls.
Still it's not as bad as all that.
Roll on the weekend

 

[soup]

Well, we just need to get to the next game and tomorrow I’d half way there.

Commonly known as hump day.

I'm as sick of seeing the 'knee jerk' phrase this week as I am seeing 'salt' during the transfer window. Hopefully we can coin a 'whip lash' and 'bite back' against Arsenal where SuperJan scores and runs to the touchline and lands a flying SuperJan high five with Poch and they have a cheeky, but knowing hug and laugh for us all, played out on the big screen. Then I might just drop my hump. Maybe.

 

[panoma]

I love Poch but the timing of those comments before the CL final were really quite horrendous.

If it was a deflection tactic to take the pressure off the players he should of come up with something else.

Personally I think that was the moment he thought he'd had outgrown us, but should keep those feelings private IMHO.

Poch does seem to have quite an ego, the man even had a book out before he achieved much. If he's half as good as he thinks he is he should sort out this rot we're in.

Hopefully he sort it out soon, but his mood and behavior certainly been different for some time now.

 

[Sandros Shiny Head]

Is this the same as the transfer forum that if this thread hits 100 pages something happens?

If we get the battering from Arsenal that we deserved in Manchester we might find out

 

[FibreOpticJesus]

For months?

What did I miss? I can't remember a more positive summer on here in years.

It started off positive. And finished positive but a lot that should of happened did not. Many of us think that our squad stood still or is weaker if we lose Eriksen and maybe some others.

Read the itk, listen to Poch’s interviews, look at his body language both at press interviews and on the pitch side (or his lack of pitch side activity/coaching). Add to that our performances I The last 10 or so games last season. We kept blaming Wembley. I think the picture and frustration of the fans was clear. I cannot remember such a poor atmosphere than Sunday.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

If we get the battering from Arsenal that we deserved in Manchester we might find out

 

[Blackrat1299]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but Poch was integral to both Ndombele and Lo Celso coming here - probably Sess too. I'd think, based purely on opinion, he wouldn't be vying for these players if he knew there was a chance he'd quit or get the heave-ho.

He got those players in before we started playing like a sunday pub team. Those displays and and apparent disagreements may have turned his head!

 

[homer hotspur]

He got those players in before we started playing like a sunday pub team. Those displays and and apparent disagreements may have turned his head!

Yes, I don't think those players would be overly impressed if he was to walk out now. They must have asked him for some reassurances. Its also noticeable how the South American contingent has increased in the first team - Foyth, Lamela, Moura, Sanchez, (Lo Celso) . Not a great situation if he were to leave.

 

[$hoguN]

Ferguson did this kind of thing all the time. I knew plenty of Man United fans back in the day who constantly moaned about team selection... But everyone seems to forget that.

My 2 cents is I think he's persisted with certain players because they're willing to try and change the way we play(Lamela) and perhaps others aren't willing to (Eriksen). And he's probably known for a while the team isn't right. Too many injuries and too many coming back out of form / going backwards.

Having said that, this entire thread is extremely reactionary. We don't know what's going on. Poch knows shit loads more about football than anybody on here though and of course he'll know there's a problem on the pitch.

We can speculate on the press side of things but I don't see why that's useful, perhaps he's been off in interviews because he thought this was probably coming. Or maybe it's because he's just had enough of press interviews all together which would be completely fair. It must be mind numbing. He didn't even want to speak English to the press so he's got previous with disdain for that part of the job... Harry Redknapp he is not. Point is nobody knows. So why is everyone reading into them so much.

What's worse is people are pointing at some of them, like when he said he'd leave if we won the CL for example. That's being taken completely out of context to fit a narrative. It was tabloids chatting nonsense at the time and he was clearly joking in the press interview if you actually watch it. But suddenly everyone's pointing to it like it's a reason why Poch's heads gone.

We need to believe he can turn it around, I fucking hate Liverpool but they're better at this than us, we could really use a bit of blind faith at times. As the alternatives don't bare thinking about.

Other than the timing of the thread, can you explain how this is reactionary. It comes on the back of a seasons worth of poor performances in the league, and a pretty concerning form guide for 2019. I’m not advocating Pochettino going or anything but for people just to write this off as reactionary isn’t fair

 

[NickHSpurs]

DL will do whats best for the club. If Poch has lost the dressing room which didnt just happen yesterday, has dropped Jan for no apparent reason and the players are reflecting this on the pitch, big decisions have to be taken... if you think that Levy will let it drift after weve reached our first CL final, finishing regularly in the top 4, considered challengers and moved into the best stadium in the country, well he wont....

This. The minute DL thinks we're starting to drift from Top 4 he will not hesitate in pulling the trigger. We have to finish there, we need the cash and the profile it's that simple.

 

[Dougal]

Other than the timing of the thread, can you explain how this is reactionary. It comes on the back of a seasons worth of poor performances in the league, and a pretty concerning form guide for 2019. I’m not advocating Pochettino going or anything but for people just to write this off as reactionary isn’t fair

It’s a whole season worth now? This thread makes the weekend and we’ll be hearing about our decade of despair under Poch. Can someone explain how we finished top 4 because surely we had to do something right last season despite all the other teams falling apart?

 

[Blackrat1299]

Yes, I don't think those players would be overly impressed if he was to walk out now. They must have asked him for some reassurances. Its also noticeable how the South American contingent has increased in the first team - Foyth, Lamela, Moura, Sanchez, (Lo Celso) . Not a great situation if he were to leave.

It dosen't bode well at the moment!

 

[DCSPUR]

Just for the record we are not supposed to be mid table Tottenham anymore...Morning COYS

Good news Val - we are only mid table on one of these over the last five years!
Finishes: 5th, 3rd, 2nd, 3rd, 4th
Net Spend: https://www.transferleague.co.uk/pr...tables/premier-league-table-last-five-seasons ---- almost bottom
Wages: https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/8386507/liverpool-man-city-prem-wage-bill/ ---- 6th