The Daily ITK Discussion Thread 1st December 2018

[RichieS]

It’s an odd situation as we’re clearly targeting young HG players like Bowen, Aarons and Eze - if we’re targeting them at all then surely we should be able to secure a loan back deal. You would have hoped the new stadium shouldn’t have any bearing on signings: clearly we are going to move in imminently. My only worry is Poch’s patience, though if he’s working as closely as is reported with Hitchen and Levy then a player’s reluctance to join should not ultimately affect him.

But it's not hard to imagine that the list is short at his request. And I would hope that he agrees that paying Rabiot the same salary as Kane would be ludicrous.

 

[S17PUR]

Are we really saying that there is nobody available in January that could compete with Sissoko, Winks and Skipp for a central midfield spot? I'd get it if we were talking about attacking midfielders or even centre backs, but our central midfield is pretty weak given the injury situation and likelihood that Dembele and possibly Wanyama may be on the way out anyway.

I think there are a pretty significant number of players that could improve us in this area, personally. If elite players don't want to join us in January, they're not going to want to join us in the summer either and we'll be waiting around for nothing again. If we can't compete for these players, we need to be looking at the next tier of players who you'd think would be much more amenable to joining one of the 16 best teams in Europe.

 

[RichieS]

Are we really saying that there is nobody available in January that could compete with Sissoko, Winks and Skipp for a central midfield spot? I'd get it if we were talking about attacking midfielders or even centre backs, but our central midfield is pretty weak given the injury situation and likelihood that Dembele and possibly Wanyama may be on the way out anyway.

I think there are a pretty significant number of players that could improve us in this area, personally. If elite players don't want to join us in January, they're not going to want to join us in the summer either and we'll be waiting around for nothing again. If we can't compete for these players, we need to be looking at the next tier of players who you'd think would be much more amenable to joining one of the 16 best teams in Europe.

Eric Dier and Mousa Dembélé? Players don't cease to exist when they get injured.

Edit: The strong links to Berge and Rabiot suggest the club are looking at this anyway.

 

[yawa]

Sorry for dampeners. Aside from my first post yesterday regarding possible loan backs. I am told very firmly that our preferred targets have much different preferences, and are prepared to hold out for them. Both January, and in the summer.

Cheers @Hercules If different preferences means different clubs or demands we can’t meet then you’d have thought our attention would need to go elsewhere.

 

[Primativ]

Sorry for dampeners. Aside from my first post yesterday regarding possible loan backs. I am told very firmly that our preferred targets have much different preferences, and are prepared to hold out for them. Both January, and in the summer.

If true I can absolutely see Poch getting frustrated

You've contradicted yourself.

No idea if Levy is the problem in regard to out pricing players that it seems no one wants.

As far as salaries go, think that ideal has been quashed for the most part in the contracts handed out to those already within the team.

Overall, I think this is an unjust and slightly outdated view of where we're at - apart from the bit that you say we're not an elite club.

It absolutely hasn’t been quashed. It’s only Kane and Lloris who are on elite level money. We aren’t paying prospective new signings elite money and that’s what we need to do to sign these players because if we are offering these players less or even equal to the money they are offered from Barcelona or City, where do we think they will end up? It’s obviously not us.

In fact we aren’t even paying the going rate, we pay vastly less than elite clubs offer hence why we aren’t singing anyone and didn’t sign anyone last summer.

I’m not saying we should bankrupt ourselves, just pointing out the realities of our situation. That said there surely must be some players available we can sign. Liverpool managed it with VVD, Fabinho etc

I don’t see it changing anytime soon which is why you have to imagine Poch will find the idea of managing an elite club like United a very attractive proposition.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

If true I can absolutely see Poch getting frustrated


It absolutely hasn’t been quashed. It’s only Kane and Lloris who are on elite level money. We aren’t paying prospective new signings elite money and that’s what we need to do to sign these players because if we are offering these players less or even equal to the money they are offered from Barcelona or City, where do we think they will end up? It’s obviously not us.

In fact we aren’t even paying the going rate, we pay vastly less than elite clubs offer hence why we aren’t singing anyone and didn’t sign anyone last summer.

I don’t see it changing anytime soon which is why you have to imagine Poch will find the idea of managing an elite club like United a very attractive proposition.

So we're not an elite club but you expect us to pay wages like one?

Okay.

 

[Primativ]

So we're not an elite club but you expect us to pay wages like one?

Okay.

No, if you read my post I am not advocating we pay those wages. Merely pointing out the reality of our situation. That said there surely must be players in Europe who can improve us. The world doesn’t revolve around Rabiot and De Jong.

 

[robertgoulet]

Sorry for dampeners. Aside from my first post yesterday regarding possible loan backs. I am told very firmly that our preferred targets have much different preferences, and are prepared to hold out for them. Both January, and in the summer.

Not dampening at all, it's realistic. It only makes sense that we've risen to the level where the players we are looking at have the talent level to play at a Barca/Real/etc, thus they'd most likely prefer to go there over Spurs. Not a whole lot we can do with those guys in that situation if Poch doesn't want to expand the player pool.

 

[Hoddle&Waddle]

It’s an odd situation as we’re clearly targeting young HG players like Bowen, Aarons and Eze - if we’re targeting them at all then surely we should be able to secure a loan back deal. You would have hoped the new stadium shouldn’t have any bearing on signings: clearly we are going to move in imminently. My only worry is Poch’s patience, though if he’s working as closely as is reported with Hitchen and Levy then a player’s reluctance to join should not ultimately affect him.

Where did you see the link to Eze?

 

[doctor stefan Freud]

Sorry for dampeners. Aside from my first post yesterday regarding possible loan backs. I am told very firmly that our preferred targets have much different preferences, and are prepared to hold out for them. Both January, and in the summer.

Thanks, Herc.

If the fish aint biting, move to another part of the lake where others might.

 

[allatsea]

What about great players approaching the end of their careers. Modric for example could do a great job on the field and off the field training and guiding Skipp Winks etc.

 

[Garbob]

Sorry for dampeners. Aside from my first post yesterday regarding possible loan backs. I am told very firmly that our preferred targets have much different preferences, and are prepared to hold out for them. Both January, and in the summer.

Thanks herc! Always appreciate the info

 

[doctor stefan Freud]

What about great players approaching the end of their careers. Modric for example could do a great job on the field and off the field training and guiding Skipp Winks etc.

I’d donate my chap for Modric

 

[HildoSpur]

If true I can absolutely see Poch getting frustrated


It absolutely hasn’t been quashed. It’s only Kane and Lloris who are on elite level money. We aren’t paying prospective new signings elite money and that’s what we need to do to sign these players because if we are offering these players less or even equal to the money they are offered from Barcelona or City, where do we think they will end up? It’s obviously not us.

In fact we aren’t even paying the going rate, we pay vastly less than elite clubs offer hence why we aren’t singing anyone and didn’t sign anyone last summer.

I’m not saying we should bankrupt ourselves, just pointing out the realities of our situation. That said there surely must be some players available we can sign. Liverpool managed it with VVD, Fabinho etc

I don’t see it changing anytime soon which is why you have to imagine Poch will find the idea of managing an elite club like United a very attractive proposition.

He will be frustrated but only because our targets do not want to come to us - it's nothing we can realistically do anything about right now other than go for a lower quality of player which clearly he does not want to do.

 

[buttons]

It's not that simple mate, if they know there is slight interest from the likes of Barca They are being told by their agents to hold out to keep the prices down. De Jong is a prime example of this.

I understand that but it feels like we have been linked to these players for 2 or 3 windows now and our chance of signing them has probably decreased with each one that has passed.

 

[bceej]

Where did you see the link to Eze?

Earlier in December. Think it was more than scouts have watched him.

 

[Spurs 1961]

Our short list, must really be the shortest list.

I understand we are after specific players, however if we can’t get these players, can we not move on and look elsewhere - bound to be alternatives?

These players will have retired and will still be on our short short list.

Again this can’t be used an excuse year after year.

The problem we have is that other teams manage to find players and get them. Liverpool seem to have few problems,and other lesser teams manage to unearth gems but we rarely do. Maybe it is because we are indecisive in the market, at least that is the impression I always get. We want a player and play silly games by making absurdly low offers which probably piss everyone off.

 

[Johnny J]

Thanks for the ITK.

I really don't believe that we can't improve our squad for reasonable money. We don't need superstar signings, or (as someone above suggested) players that are good enough for Barca.

Yes it's a tough market but it's tough for everyone. If all our preferred targets would rather go elsewhere then there's something wrong. We must be a very attractive prospect to all but the very best players.

I wish we would just front up the money for a top quality CM. Liverpool went out and addressed their weaknesses and now look at them. If we keep waiting and waiting, players will only get more expensive and our squad isn't going to be around forever.

 

[Trix]

Thanks Trix. I get the not signing players just to get numbers up. The whole point though, is that we are surely so stretched now, with injuries in midfield to Dembele and Wanyama, we lose Sissoko,or Winks, or Dele, or Eriksen and we are well and truly screwed. We can't expect Skipp, Onomah etc to save our season if we won't at least get a couple in. Why can't we get a couple of loans? Chelsea have Kovacic, for example. We can't just cross our fingers in the higher echelons of our club and hope for the best.

It's a fair enough point rethe likes of Kovacic, but let's be honest how good has he actually been. In fact how many loan players have come in for the top 6 sides and hit the ground running? Truth is if they are only here for the short term then that's what they need to do. On top of that we know very well Poch likes to bed players in first and get them up to his fitness standards. Loans are great for lesser clubs that need a boost, but for the top sides they are rarely a good option without a purchase agreement in place.

 

[allatsea]

The problem we have is that other teams manage to find players and get them. Liverpool seem to have few problems,and other lesser teams manage to unearth gems but we rarely do. Maybe it is because we are indecisive in the market, at least that is the impression I always get. We want a player and play silly games by making absurdly low offers which probably piss everyone off.

Liverpool keep selling their best player/s for top dollar then they are able to overpay for the players they want to bring in.