The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - ENIC EARNING EDITION 14th November

[DaSpurs]

Doesn't take an expert really. At the rate the rouble is crashing, it's no big surprise that players want out.

True, but even then, confirmation from inside that it's specifically affected their footballing league is appreciated nonetheless IMO. For instance, even despite France implementing their new tax law, they just adapted and paid their players more. With this news, it seems that the big earners in Russia (i.e. the ones everyone else would want) will indeed be flogged.

 

[Wellspurs]

Might be able to get Pav back on the cheap?.... especially with a big cup game in January coming up.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Lets deal with a few facts rather than opinions.

Spurs academy was rebuilt about a decade ago to produce top players - and we've just started to see the first of these coming through now - Livermore Caulker, Kane, Mason, Townsend, Bentaleb, Rose - either at Spurs or sold to raise funds to buy others.

The training ground was built at a cost of £35m/£40m to help develop youth and other young players bought in - coached by Spurs head coach and his team. That was a condition of his employment

How come we only hear of AVB's demand for established world class ploayers such as Falcao, Hulk et al at zillions of pounds of fees and wages - but nothing of what we NEVER saw, the bringing through of Spurs young players,

The ginger fraud would only play players with PL experience , not develop the youngsers.

Had AVB stayed another season - he would have lost players such as Kane, , Mason and Bentaleb to force us to exist on Soldado, Capoue and co.

The ginger fraud has never done anything without top class players whether Facao, or Bale to cover up the total clusterfuck that his tactics achieved withiout them

AVB -Good riddence, shame he didn't go earlier.

You say facts, say AVB would only play players with PL experience, but Vertonghen, Soldado, Chadli, Eriksen, Capoue, Paulinho had no PL experience when AVB played them.

Being told you have to achieve 4th or better with a squad just sheered of it's 2 (then 3) world class players (4 if you include Adebayor going into a year long sulk because he couldn't wear his hat to training - 41/2 if you include King retiring), does tend to adjust the focus somewhat. Tends to hamper the willingness to teach kids on the job. Luckily clusterfuck tactics achieved a record points haul and keep us competitive the second season, QF LC and winning every group game through to the knockout Europa.

AVB continually played Townsend (and Rose - two of the academy players you list) repeatedly over record signing Lamela ?

Mourinho wanted Fabregas and Costa rather than play academy kids, is he a fraud ? LVG wanted Falcao and spent 60m to get DiMaria, is he a fraud ?

So far Pochettino hasn't given any PL time to a single academy player without PL experience. He's given 4 minutes in a EL game to Winks. This is a manager brought in supposedly partly because of his work within Southampton's youth orientated policy. Is he a fraud too ?

You know I want to see a policy that has the integration of quality academy players over the purchase of average external players, I feel strongly about it, but calling a manager a fraud because he prioritises what he believes to be the best way to achieve results, because he's been put under un-realistic pressure to achieve results rather than told the priority is to integrate development players and transition results whilst this his going on will be taken on board is purile.

I wish we had a chairman who'd understood the realities of selling your best players and still maintaining the same league position, who communicated this realisation along with a desire to integrate development players with a tolerance for what that might mean in the short term. And also I wish we'd had an Academy technical Director who didn't have "how to lose friends and alienate people" as a life mantra, as that may have helped the process too.

And I also wish we had fans that could grasp this too.

 

[Jospur]

You say facts, say AVB would only play players with PL experience, but Vertonghen, Soldado, Chadli, Eriksen, Capoue, Paulinho had no PL experience when AVB played them.

Being told you have to achieve 4th or better with a squad just sheered of it's 2 (then 3) world class players (4 if you include Adebayor going into a year long sulk because he couldn't wear his hat to training - 41/2 if you include King retiring), does tend to adjust the focus somewhat. Tends to hamper the willingness to teach kids on the job. Luckily clusterfuck tactics achieved a record points haul and keep us competitive the second season, QF LC and winning every group game through to the knockout Europa.

AVB continually played Townsend (and Rose - two of the academy players you list) repeatedly over record signing Lamela ?

Mourinho wanted Fabregas and Costa rather than play academy kids, is he a fraud ? LVG wanted Falcao and spent 60m to get DiMaria, is he a fraud ?

So far Pochettino hasn't given any PL time to a single academy player without PL experience. He's given 4 minutes in a EL game to Winks. This is a manager brought in supposedly partly because of his work within Southampton's youth orientated policy. Is he a fraud too ?

You know I want to see a policy that has the integration of quality academy players over the purchase of average external players, I feel strongly about it, but calling a manager a fraud because he prioritises what he believes to be the best way to achieve results, because he's been put under un-realistic pressure to achieve results rather than told the priority is to integrate development players and transition results whilst this his going on will be taken on board is purile.

I wish we had a chairman who'd understood the realities of selling your best players and still maintaining the same league position, who communicated this realisation along with a desire to integrate development players with a tolerance for what that might mean in the short term. And also I wish we'd had an Academy technical Director who didn't have "how to lose friends and alienate people" as a life mantra, as that may have helped the process too.

And I also wish we had fans that could grasp this too.

Love your passion - and what you have to say. Great post!

 

[The Watcher]

Doesn't take an expert really. At the rate the rouble is crashing, it's no big surprise that players want out.

I read that a lot of the top contracts in Russia are paid in Euros at the request of players and agents, so in that situation it's the clubs that are going to want to shift them rather than the individuals agitating to get out (unless of course they believe their club will go bust and their money missing). Either way it'll provide quite a few buying opportunities unless there is a quick turnaround, which currently looks unlikely.

 

[allatsea]

You say facts, say AVB would only play players with PL experience, but Vertonghen, Soldado, Chadli, Eriksen, Capoue, Paulinho had no PL experience when AVB played them.

Being told you have to achieve 4th or better with a squad just sheered of it's 2 (then 3) world class players (4 if you include Adebayor going into a year long sulk because he couldn't wear his hat to training - 41/2 if you include King retiring), does tend to adjust the focus somewhat. Tends to hamper the willingness to teach kids on the job. Luckily clusterfuck tactics achieved a record points haul and keep us competitive the second season, QF LC and winning every group game through to the knockout Europa.

AVB continually played Townsend (and Rose - two of the academy players you list) repeatedly over record signing Lamela ?

Mourinho wanted Fabregas and Costa rather than play academy kids, is he a fraud ? LVG wanted Falcao and spent 60m to get DiMaria, is he a fraud ?

So far Pochettino hasn't given any PL time to a single academy player without PL experience. He's given 4 minutes in a EL game to Winks. This is a manager brought in supposedly partly because of his work within Southampton's youth orientated policy. Is he a fraud too ?

You know I want to see a policy that has the integration of quality academy players over the purchase of average external players, I feel strongly about it, but calling a manager a fraud because he prioritises what he believes to be the best way to achieve results, because he's been put under un-realistic pressure to achieve results rather than told the priority is to integrate development players and transition results whilst this his going on will be taken on board is purile.

I wish we had a chairman who'd understood the realities of selling your best players and still maintaining the same league position, who communicated this realisation along with a desire to integrate development players with a tolerance for what that might mean in the short term. And also I wish we'd had an Academy technical Director who didn't have "how to lose friends and alienate people" as a life mantra, as that may have helped the process too.

And I also wish we had fans that could grasp this too.

Did Mason have PL experience before being selected to play in the PL by Pochettino ?

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

Once again

This is the ITK discussion thread and NOT the critique AVB thread

Last summer I repeated myself to the point of insanity, that will not be happening this time around.

 

[Hoopspur]

I read that a lot of the top contracts in Russia are paid in Euros at the request of players and agents, so in that situation it's the clubs that are going to want to shift them rather than the individuals agitating to get out (unless of course they believe their club will go bust and their money missing). Either way it'll provide quite a few buying opportunities unless there is a quick turnaround, which currently looks unlikely.

Did not the same report say that the top clubs (CL) were very opaque in terms of finances and it was difficult to even work out how well off they are? Also UEFA pay them participation/prize money in Euros as opposed to their own currency. Therefore they are slightly less susceptible to the problems going on with the economy.

By definition it's probably the players from these clubs that we'd be most interested in, so although we may get a discounted price we won't probably get any basement bargains! I'm sure the club has looked carefully at this though.

 

[ClintEastwould]

Paulinho is the epitome of Italian league player. He'd do well there IMO

 

[rawhide]

Once again

Last summer I repeated myself to the point of insanity, that will not be happening this time around.

That's only because you're already insane...

 

[Drexl]

Paulinho is the epitome of Italian league player. He'd do well there IMO

Agree

Bite their hand off at any deal

Awful player, the Brazilian Jenas

 

[THFCSPURS19]

If anyone believes we will suddenly go from a lower-mid table team to credible top four challengers in the space of one January transfer window, they must have been sleeping under a rock for the past few years.

1. The only time we spent real money in a January window was when we were in serious danger of relegation, we never struck whilst the iron was hot with one or two key signings when we were genuine CL/Title challengers, why would we do it now, when we look as far away as we have ever been from the CL.

2. We aren't willing to spend the money or pay the wages higher level players demand.

3. We are not an attractive prospect for top level players, we are a club in complete disarray.

4. Even if we were able to attract the players we wanted, recent evidence shows it to be unlikely that the players we identified would be of the requisite quality, rather they would be cobbled together from Baldini's black book and our non-existent scouting network.

5. Even if they were of the requisite quality, the likelihood that they will settle and hit the ground running in a manner that would enable us to sustain a challenge for the top four would be slim to none.

How many times have we heard the same old rubbish...that THIS TIME we are REALLY GOING TO MAKE A GO OF IT....you would have to be extremely foolish to believe it.

'lower-mid table'

 

[dovahkiin]

nothing much new
takeover
edmonton:definite interest in the past [from qatar] but quiet this season.
billy white: This season has been from Americans, but a lot hinges on the direction our stadium / area redevelopment takes.

 

[steve]

Regarding Galahad's ITK my only small concern is whether Mitchell is used to looking at players that are of the right quality for us. Sometimes when people take the step up they don't quite bring the right ambition with them - we've seen ourselves and Liverpool overspending on players who aren't always top quality and I'd much rather we settled for what we had or look to the youth than bring in a shiny new face who isn't any better than what we have. I wonder how Mitchell will fair at a bigger club with bigger expectations.

 

[DaSpurs]

Regarding Galahad's ITK my only small concern is whether Mitchell is used to looking at players that are of the right quality for us. Sometimes when people take the step up they don't quite bring the right ambition with them - we've seen ourselves and Liverpool overspending on players who aren't always top quality and I'd much rather we settled for what we had or look to the youth than bring in a shiny new face who isn't any better than what we have. I wonder how Mitchell will fair at a bigger club with bigger expectations.

Honestly, I'm not that concerned about it. Part of what Saints have done successfully recently is make the correct additions per actual squad needs. So not only have they made their selections under the consideration and respect of their current options, but they also made very good selections for the sake of compatibility with the rest of the squad. This is the exact opposite of what we've done recently, and consequently why I think Levy took such a drastic step towards making the turnaround.

 

[steve]

Honestly, I'm not that concerned about it. Part of what Saints have done successfully recently is make the correct additions per actual squad needs. So not only have they made their selections under the consideration and respect of their current options, but they also made very good selections for the sake of compatibility with the rest of the squad. This is the exact opposite of what we've done recently, and consequently why I think Levy took such a drastic step towards making the turnaround.

Are you saying (sorry I'm a bit thick) that they've identified their squad needs and addressed them well under the guidance of Mitchell? I.e. bought the right players for the areas they were lacking?

 

[DaSpurs]

Are you saying (sorry I'm a bit thick) that they've identified their squad needs and addressed them well under the guidance of Mitchell? I.e. bought the right players for the areas they were lacking?

Right, that's exactly what I'm suggesting. That's very different to what we've done lately, as we've targeted players of promising potential and thrown them together under the hope they'd work together, without consideration of compatibility, actual squad needs, and sufficient respect towards upcoming youngsters.

 

[Martinhotspur]

Regarding Galahad's ITK my only small concern is whether Mitchell is used to looking at players that are of the right quality for us. Sometimes when people take the step up they don't quite bring the right ambition with them - we've seen ourselves and Liverpool overspending on players who aren't always top quality and I'd much rather we settled for what we had or look to the youth than bring in a shiny new face who isn't any better than what we have. I wonder how Mitchell will fair at a bigger club with bigger expectations.

Your right I think we should leave Levy And Baldini In charge of Spunking money on shite.

 

[steve]

Right, that's exactly what I'm suggesting. That's very different to what we've done lately, as we've targeted players of promising potential and thrown them together under the hope they'd work together, without consideration of compatibility, actual squad needs, and sufficient respect towards upcoming youngsters.

It's not quite the point I was making but I understand what you're saying even if I only half agree with it - transfers have never been an exact science as Mitchell is the first to admit. What areas do you consider need to be addressed? Positions and examples?

Your right I think we should leave Levy And Baldini In charge of Spunking money on shite.

Having an alternative doesn't mean it's going to work any better - my original point wasn't that Mitchell shouldn't be given the remit to identify new players but that it's possible that he might come up short in terms of quality.

 

[thinktank]

It's not quite the point I was making but I understand what you're saying even if I only half agree with it - transfers have never been an exact science as Mitchell is the first to admit. What areas do you consider need to be addressed? Positions and examples?



Having an alternative doesn't mean it's going to work any better - my original point wasn't that Mitchell shouldn't be given the remit to identify new players but that it's possible that he might come up short in terms of quality.

He knows poch well, knows what he needs for his - very specific - system to function and will work closely with him. Poch has managed in the prem and knows what qualities he will require in each player for each role.

You seem to be looking for a problem where there isn't one.