The Daily ITK Discussion thread January 20th 2012

[Spurs_Bear]

does that not apply to defoe aswell?

I think the difference is that Defoe has the ability to dribble a ball under close control, Pav I think would struggle with the cones exercise that they teach you when you are 6.

 

[Norvern Munkey]

Redknapp has given Pav plenty of chances.
I have tried to be supportive of Pav.
He has a decent strike-rate, but when he isn't scoring we may as well be playing with 10 men.
Sadly for Pav (and I mean this sincerly), I think Pav grew up in a footballing World where coaches were happy with him if he scored, it was other players jobs to get the ball to him in a position to score, and he really, truly, cannot understand why Redknapp isn't happy with that.

This .....

I think if Pav had workrate as well, in all honesty he would never be at spurs now ....he is a class finisher but doesnt work for the ball (Ian Rush and Shearer ...great finishers and they worked damn hard for every scrap - sadly pav doesnt) .....and in all the good leagues in the world there are defenders of sufficient class to make the striker work hard enough over the course of a game that, given pavs current work ethic, in my opinion he will never make the step up to become 'prolific'... At a villa/fulham/qpr and starting the majority of games he would get enough half chances to net 8-10 + a season and be classed as a relative success....We are shopping at/or near the top table and are looking for 15+ goals from a striker.

Maybe we scouted him and assumed we might be able to coach it into his makeup, maybe we have seen him in training every day now we have signed him and realized we cant......

Am sad to say but he needs another club.........and quickly, am happy for defoe to play against city and have this feeling he will be in the news after the game (and not transfer related)...am not so happy that pav will be the only option 2 other than play for the draw.

 

[SpurSince57]

Posted this yesterday. I can only assume it will become more and more relevant with each day that passes:

I'm growing incredibly disillusioned with this transfer window. Since we got rid of Comolli, we seem to be playing the waiting game with all our targets as opposed to going out and getting the players we want. If we want Damiao or Remy, then we should get our asses to Brazil/France and try and do a deal for him as opposed to waiting it out and trying to save a couple of million, hoping other targets open up in the last 24 hours, or that a special player who we don't need becomes available for cheap. When it comes to signing a striker, we shouldn't be using this TK Maxx philosophy. It always affects our season too much to be effective. We should do our business early, get the players we want/get rid of the ones we don't, and then leave the 'Levy signings' for later if they are there to be had. And please, I've heard the "it's not that easy/simple" argument too many times. Other clubs go out and at least attempt to do a deal. At the moment it feels like we're waiting to see whether we can get Tevez on loan.

Fully agree. Comolli was such a superstar, wasn't he? What a mistake it was to let him go! Let's get him back so we can sign us some complete unknowns like Carroll and Suarez on the cheap. Maybe he can find us a world-class manager like Juanque while he's at it!

 

[GoldstarYid]

Fully agree. Comolli was such a superstar, wasn't he? What a mistake it was to let him go! Let's get him back so we can sign us some complete unknowns like Carroll and Suarez on the cheap. Maybe he can find us a world-class manager like Juanque while he's at it!

Being fair to the lad was it not Comolli that got Bale, Berba, Modric, KPB(Milan now) Kaboul, Benny and Dawson. Yes he brought in some shit but it's not all bad.

 

[rawhide]

Being fair to the lad was it not Comolli that got Bale, Berba, Modric, KPB(Milan now) Kaboul, Benny and Dawson. Yes he brought in some shit but it's not all bad.

I guess that if you buy enough players, some of them should be pretty good...:wink:

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Being fair to the lad was it not Comolli that got Bale, Berba, Modric, KPB(Milan now) Kaboul, Benny and Dawson. Yes he brought in some shit but it's not all bad.

Depends who you listen to, Martin Jol said the only one Comolli was responsible for was BAE. The others he had very little involvement in.

And Dawson was already here.

 

[Bware]

Fully agree. Comolli was such a superstar, wasn't he? What a mistake it was to let him go! Let's get him back so we can sign us some complete unknowns like Carroll and Suarez on the cheap. Maybe he can find us a world-class manager like Juanque while he's at it!

That's funny because I don't remember praising his signings, or praising the man himself. I said since we got rid of him "we seem to be playing the waiting game with all our targets as opposed to going out and getting the players we want". Simply a comment on the speed at which he does business, something that is lacking from our current policy. Shouting CARROLL SUAREZ JUANDE RAMOS doesn't change that.

edit: See now you have people conducting a critical assessment of Comolli, all because you didn't read my post properly.

 

[spurslenny]

Iirc, Dawson, Lennon, Hudd, and Robinson were all bought in under Arneson's reign as DOF.

 

[beats1]

I guess we reached that point in the window where we compare Comolli signings vs Arneson's signings, it always happens every window :grin:

I guess we can declare, we are now in a state of panic

 

[mill]

Iirc, Dawson, Lennon, Hudd, and Robinson were all bought in under Arneson's reign as DOF.[/quote

Pleat, this game can go on for hours, what aslow window

 

[HappySpur]

That's funny because I don't remember praising his signings, or praising the man himself. I said since we got rid of him "we seem to be playing the waiting game with all our targets as opposed to going out and getting the players we want". Simply a comment on the speed at which he does business, something that is lacking from our current policy. Shouting CARROLL SUAREZ JUANDE RAMOS doesn't change that.

edit: See now you have people conducting a critical assessment of Comolli, all because you didn't read my post properly.

I don't think the issue is Comolli, but a DoF. And perhaps this is part of what you are saying. I think in many ways Levy is working as a DoF when it comes to signings, but he's also a chairman who is running the business and also trying to get us a stadium. I think this is what slows things down.

So it doesn't have to be a Comolli "fer er agin" argument. It's the role. And it can be quite beneficial. Since Harry doesn't have free reign, someone in that position might make things happen quicker. But Harry doesn't want one, so he gets part of Levy to do it.

But that means a philosophy of bargain hunting while others but willy-nilly.

This comes from Levy being the bigger backer of the ideas of moneyball, while Comolli was always a bigger proponent of the econometrics aspect of Billy Beane's revolution. From what I understand Comolli and Beane are still mates.

Thus Comolli is about numbers and doesn't care about profit/loss. So he can spunk money on Adam, Downing and Henderson because they were all top 10 statistically in chances created last year. And he can get it done because he has no qualms about money. He did that with us too, where he spent on Bent and Bentley based on #'s. Sometimes that will work out, but its a dangerous game because #'s aren't as transitional as baseball, where sabremetrics originated.

If I hit 350 for the Braves, chances are I will hit 350 for the Yankees. My ability to hit isn't tied to those around me unless I'm a #3 hitter, but that's another story.

But if I produce a lot of chances for Sunderland, a lot of that is based on the system and personel around me. So taking a metric like "chances created" is a rather iffy way to choose personnel.

And that part of Beane's philosphy is no longer beneficial, because it was based on finding an undervalued niche in the market and using that to buy cheap. Everybody is catching up with metrics in football. So Comolli isn't a bad DoF, but he's not a good one either because his methods are very chance related and the rest of the market has caught up with him

So that leaves us with finding value because Levy likes the money part of moneyball And that is about ignoring u20s who are too much money for potential that may never come. Ignoring anything over say 25 as they are on a downward trend. It should include asian players, as they are undervalued in the market. And finding players that aren't valued at their club so they are cheap (which to be fair has been in existence forever really). The beauty of Levy is that he will scrap these rules for a bargain, like Parker. Flexibility is the key to any approach.

And DoF needs to be able to do this in order to please Levy. I doubt many can, so I think its smart to let Levy continue doing it. It may slow us down. But we are in 3rd. End of the day, Levy's way is working. Full stop

 

[dazza2504]

Quiet transfer window silent ITK'ers

Hi all,

This is my first thread post after my first comment post (wish me luck)

Last January and summer I came onto this site for all the ITK news regarding our transfers. Although most of it turned out to be crap and some spot on, so far in this window its been very quiet for us in the terms (for me anyways) that there hasn't been as much so called ITK news going on.

I'm guessing Harry and Levy are working on bringing someone in? but even all our spies have been quiet which makes me doubt are we trying to bring people in?

I look forward to the chit-chat for this

 

[Bromavinci]

Good effort for the post but I can't help wondering if you just got in from the cinema

 

[Hot-Spur]

I guess we reached that point in the window where we compare Comolli signings vs Arneson's signings, it always happens every window :grin:

I guess we can declare, we are now in a state of panic

Or just in a state :lol:

 

[HappySpur]

Good effort for the post but I can't help wondering if you just got in from the cinema

Haven't seen the movie. Or read the book. The former is in my netflix queue. The latter is on my iPad.

But I did read Soccernomics which discussed a lot of this :grin:

 

[SpurSince57]

That's funny because I don't remember praising his signings, or praising the man himself. I said since we got rid of him "we seem to be playing the waiting game with all our targets as opposed to going out and getting the players we want". Simply a comment on the speed at which he does business, something that is lacking from our current policy. Shouting CARROLL SUAREZ JUANDE RAMOS doesn't change that.

edit: See now you have people conducting a critical assessment of Comolli, all because you didn't read my post properly.

On the speed at which who does business?

You have a very short memory indeed, it would seem, because the 'speed' with which we did business was being criticised three or four years ago. Does Arshavin not ring a bell?

If you feel the need to use capital letters to make your point (such as your point is), don't accuse anyone else of shouting. You don't want to make yourself look a total plank, do you?

 

[rawhide]

Or just in a state :lol:

We're Spurs fans, we're always in a state.

It's not a glass half full or half empty situation, it's a someone's smashed my glass and pissed all over it - again - situation.:wink:

 

[SpurSince57]

I don't think the issue is Comolli, but a DoF. And perhaps this is part of what you are saying. I think in many ways Levy is working as a DoF when it comes to signings, but he's also a chairman who is running the business and also trying to get us a stadium. I think this is what slows things down. And DoF needs to be able to do this in order to please Levy. I doubt many can, so I think its smart to let Levy continue doing it. It may slow us down. But we are in 3rd. End of the day, Levy's way is working. Full stop

Comolli wasn't our DoF. He was our Sporting Director, with a whole range of responsibilities beyond hiring and firing players. (His one legacy may be the part he played in setting up our Academy). Even when Comolli was here, Levy often had his fingers in the pie when it came to making deals, Modric's signing being maybe the most obvious example.

 

[Bware]

On the speed at which who does business?

You have a very short memory indeed, it would seem, because the 'speed' with which we did business was being criticised three or four years ago. Does Arshavin not ring a bell?

If you feel the need to use capital letters to make your point (such as your point is), don't accuse anyone else of shouting. You don't want to make yourself look a total plank, do you?

The capitalisation is there to represent the 'shouting'. And you're saying I look a total plank?

 

[spurslenny]

I'm going down to Game tomorrow to get FM 2012.

One way or another Spurs will be making a signing this window, be it in real life, or in virtual reality.